New expansion's premise is pretty terrible from the lore stand point.

[shaunika123]

They haven't been stupid to that extent. Wars usually have build-ups and realistic (if often petty) reasonings behind them, not ''I have a personal grudge against you, now I'll try to kill your entire race! And my entire faction will be OK with it because I'm the boss!

If your story hinges on the characters being stupid hotheads, I lose interest. And that's how the faction war has been almost entirely portrayed up until now in Warcraft, where it makes even less sense then in our world to expend your remaining resources on the opposing, equal strength superpower. At least on Earth there's no risk of the ground or sea spitting out endless armies of murder-happy monsters that don't care if you're on team blue or red.

but there is buildup, it's not out of the blue at all
the reasonings are realistic AND petty "you've killed our king" and "you've condemned my entire race to death", are two pretty good reasons for war, there's also the good old, "we have no more reason to play nice since the legion is gone, and we've hated each other's guts for over 30 years"

if anything we temporarily stopped having war because of the legion, not the other way around


having to hold hands for the current *insert big bad villain name here* every expansion gets much MUCH more boring, than going into open war once or twice.

[Xorn]

The difference is that arthas did that as a deathknight with undead minions with no free will.

Orcs however followed Garrosh pretty happyly out of free will, so did the goblins, blood elves and forsaken. Only the trolls were somewhat hesitant.

Did you not play MoP? The blood elves almost defected to the alliance because of Garrosh, until Jaina PMSed all over Dalaran.

[Sky High]

The difference is that arthas did that as a deathknight with undead minions with no free will.

Orcs however followed Garrosh pretty happyly out of free will, so did the goblins, blood elves and forsaken. Only the trolls were somewhat hesitant.

and they got the shitty end of the stick afterwards, fitting.

[Krille]

But the players know and that is the problem. If you say to the players, that the war actually happends because of a misunderstanding (the Horde retreating because they were losing and not to harm the Alliance), the Alliance is cheated out of a real reason to go to war. They will be attacking Undercity thinking that they are in a fools war, only happening because of misinformation and a misunderstanding. While real wars might have started because of this, it is not really something that creates zeal or dedication in the Alliance playerbase.

Reading your posts here. Are you just ignoring the fact that they basically opened with "4 years after the Argus"-shit? A lot can happen in 4 years, it's like a third of the time that has gone since Vanilla to Legion timeline.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I disagree.

I think they've set it up just fine, and the gameplay will be what makes or breaks the expansion either way. WoD didn't fail due to alternate universe bullshit, after all. If they treat it like they did our Suramar campaign, I'll be a happy camper.

[Aeula]

Remind me when last time Alliance declared purge of non-Alliance from Azeroth or nuked something? I can't remember either. Horde is comic grade moustache-twirling villain bad since WotLK.

Nuking is bad? You must be upset World War II didn't last as long as you wanted.

And Jaina did that whole purge thing in Dalaran and tried to get Varian to do it to the rest of the Horde not long after.

We dealt with our madman, did you deal with yours?

[Deleted]

After having to unite so many times against so many foes to save the planet it seems odd to go to a full scale war over anything. You know its gonna end in Jaina and Thrall hugging it out.

[Flurryfang]

yeah, because we'e never fought wars based on a misunderstanding right?

almost every war ever faught was because at least one side but usually both were idiots. that's not something new to us.

i think, " finally taking back lordaeron, which is our rightful kingdom" is a good enough reason for the alliance tbh.
it's not like the alliance and the horde been best buddies, and suddenly they attack each other, they barely tolerated each other for the sake of defeating the legion. they still hate each others' guts, one small tiny thing can explode into a war easily.

if you think losing your king is not a good enough reason to start a war then look at world war I

Again, this is first of all not a real war. We are omnipotent and unless Blizzard want to paint a faction evil, they will have to make sure that each faction feel justified in what they are doing. This is not about creating a war, that could really happend, because that would be easy. The entire gilnean attack would be reason enough, even thought it is many years ago now.

The problem is about creating a war, which the players feel engaged into. Lordaeron is not the kingdom of Anduin, he is of the Arathor line and Lordaeron is not his rightful kingdom. There are proberly more people of Lordaeron among the Forsaken then there is living anywhere else, so it is actually their home.
The thing about hating each others guts.... Where are getting this at? Sure Tyrande does not like the Horde player in Val'sharah, but it is not like she is trying to kill us. Anduin might not like the Horde either, but it is not like he looking for an excuse to go to war, he even told Genn to not seek out Sylvanas for battle.
So while there is a dislike, nobody have shown a want to go to war with the Horde at all. It is the same with Sylvanas as Warchief. People don't like her, but nobody is planning to overtake her or anything like that.

- - - Updated - - -

Reading your posts here. Are you just ignoring the fact that they basically opened with "4 years after the Argus"-shit? A lot can happen in 4 years, it's like a third of the time that has gone since Vanilla to Legion timeline.

Then they will have to explain what happend in those 4 years. Just saying, that time makes everybody mad at each other is not gonna go in the players mind and will not help create a want to go to war with the other faction.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

What's going to be shitty is when the void arrives it's basically going to be the generic "we must stand together" speech we've heard every other time we've had to do so after every other expansion where the factions were at war.

Genn, Jaina and Sylvanas just have to fuck it out or something so most of the world can just chill for a while.

[Xorn]

Again, this is first of all not a real war. We are omnipotent and unless Blizzard want to paint a faction evil, they will have to make sure that each faction feel justified in what they are doing. This is not about creating a war, that could really happend, because that would be easy. The entire gilnean attack would be reason enough, even thought it is many years ago now.

The problem is about creating a war, which the players feel engaged into. Lordaeron is not the kingdom of Anduin, he is of the Arathor line and Lordaeron is not his rightful kingdom. There are proberly more people of Lordaeron among the Forsaken then there is living anywhere else, so it is actually their home.
The thing about hating each others guts.... Where are getting this at? Sure Tyrande does not like the Horde player in Val'sharah, but it is not like she is trying to kill us. Anduin might not like the Horde either, but it is not like he looking for an excuse to go to war, he even told Genn to not seek out Sylvanas for battle.
So while there is a dislike, nobody have shown a want to go to war with the Horde at all. It is the same with Sylvanas as Warchief. People don't like her, but nobody is planning to overtake her or anything like that.

Well, see, Aduin TOLD Genn not to go looking for trouble, but then he did.

I'm calling it right now that Genn in some way talks Anduin into it, or even goes as far as to deceive or trick him to go to war

[rowaasr13]

First of all, i think the alliance players killed more people in Stormheim the Horde did, so who are the murderers faction now! xD

Also, i saw her as a person who takes action into her own hands and goes off on her own. Again, she did very little, if actually no real murder at all in Legion. She killed a few si:7 soldiers, but that was proberly in selfdefense.

Except her entire voyage was for her own gain. If you didn't play Horde, meeting in Helheim looks like "championslol, enjoy being fucked up by Helya while I negotiate what I want from her, kthxbye". And, IIRC, that's the only two things she ever did in Legion: piss of Alliance on Broken Shore and trying to to piss it off again in Stormheim, but failing miserably. Can you remind how exactly Zombivanas helped this entire "fight against Legion" stuff? I mean all she did in expansion was purely for her own advantage. Not for the Horde. And I suspect not even for all Forsaken as well. Isn't second warmongering racist Warchief one two retarded Warchiefs too much for a faction? That's why I'm pissed about Horde story and "waaaaaaaaagh! war!" that always comes with it.

[Krille]

Then they will have to explain what happend in those 4 years. Just saying, that time makes everybody mad at each other is not gonna go in the players mind and will not help create a want to go to war with the other faction.

What makes you think they wont? The storytelling leading up to Legion was way better than the one for MoP or WoD. Maybe they can do that again and make us care about this war. But simply dismissing it before they even get the chance, that's so impatient.

[Flurryfang]

The grudges are not gone, and the history is there between the people that matter. Setting aside differences does not erase the past.

Otherwise, I can't really say much more than "wait and see." We know there's more story to come, whether it will all be contained to the book or not. We'll see what more there is to tell between now and then. It's not that I completely disagree as much as I am hesitant to jump to conclusions.

From the interactions shown between Varian and Sylvans on the Broken Shore, it did very much seem like past deeds had been forgotten and grudges had been buried. There needs to happend something for these things to be digged up and for the differences to matter again, because right now they don't matter.

I am also not at all branding BFA as a bullshit story expansion without having read 95% of the story, but the things they have spoiled, the signs they have showed worries me....... I want WoW to have a good story, they have even been close alot of times, but i just always fuck it up in the end......:And i fear that in the hunt to have an expansion based around faction conflict they will fail at making the players engaged in the actual conflict.

[Deleted]

Did you not play MoP? The blood elves almost defected to the alliance because of Garrosh, until Jaina PMSed all over Dalaran.

And out of hurt feelings because Jaina (who was not the leader of teh Alliance) said some bad words, they decided to instead of rejoining the alliance to just invent a manabomb and nuke a city of innocent people. Justified I guess?

[Xorn]

Except her entire voyage was for her own gain. If you didn't play Horde, meeting in Helheim looks like "championslol, enjoy being fucked up by Helya while I negotiate what I want from her, kthxbye". And, IIRC, that's the only two things she ever did in Legion: piss of Alliance on Broken Shore and trying to to piss it off again in Stormheim, but failing miserably. Can you remind how exactly Zombivanas helped this entire "fight against Legion" stuff? I mean all she did in expansion was purely for her own advantage. Not for the Horde. And I suspect not even for all Forsaken as well. Isn't second warmongering racist Warchief one two retarded Warchiefs too much for a faction? That's why I'm pissed about Horde story and "waaaaaaaaagh! war!" that always comes with it.

Well, first of all, her story was cut.

Second of all, how was she trying to "piss of the alliance" in Stormheim? By not attacking first? By pretty much ignoring them to do her own thing? By trying to get Valkyr in service of the Horde to have more soldiers to fight the legion?

Third of all, the alliance being pissy about the broken shore is ridiculous. Her forces were getting slaughtered, she did the right thing by calling a retreat. She even blew the horns to signal it. It's not her fault the alliance decided to stay in a losing battle.

[Flurryfang]

What makes you think they wont? The storytelling leading up to Legion was way better than the one for MoP or WoD. Maybe they can do that again and make us care about this war. But simply dismissing it before they even get the chance, that's so impatient.

Blizzard have chosen now as the time to reveal their expansion and they have chosen to reveal some of the story aswell. That they then make that story not make sense is what makes me disappointed. I am not impatient, i know that they can still make a good story, i just think that it is a bad sign, that the story they show for their reveal does not create a good enough background for the conflict there is in the game.

[Logwyn]

it's world of world of warcraft tho

Could be a war against something other than each other.

[Darktbs]

Then they will have to explain what happend in those 4 years. Just saying, that time makes everybody mad at each other is not gonna go in the players mind and will not help create a want to go to war with the other faction.

We still have 7.3.5 and BfA pre patch, so there is still time for develop those reasons.

Im not counting the book because not everyone will read it, for whatever reason.

[Firatha]

Then they will have to explain what happend in those 4 years. Just saying, that time makes everybody mad at each other is not gonna go in the players mind and will not help create a want to go to war with the other faction.

The book thats comming out seems to do this from the preview pages I have seen.

[Triceratrozer]

Nuking is bad? You must be upset World War II didn't last as long as you wanted.

Nuking IS bad, though. That's one of the things we as society decided. There's a reason it only appeals to madmen and nihilists.