What's happening to the Horde? Is it all about undead and elves now?

[MatthiasLehner]

I've never maxed out any of my Horde characters,
nor even bothered playing Orc as a race back in WC2 & 3.


But I've always loved the gimmick of
"We are a mixed bunch of survivors, underdogs, wild, barbaric.. whatever you call us, but we also have very distinct cultures and worth the respect"
type of stuff since WC3.



Now with the release of vanilla, seeing Forsaken in the Horde.. or just anywhere, always looked off and weird to me from 2004 and on.

Yes, they are also a lost bunch who needed a shelter to help them survive against the Alliance, but.. they've always felt like a time bomb without the timer (and then Varimathras happened, Sylvanas vs Gilneas.. etc) I mean, this race literally requires dead enemies and friends to increase in population. How the hell on any living races okay with these guys sticking around is beyond me.

However, the tragic, edgy, former kingdom's citizens, zombie stuff sells pretty damn well, and adds an interesting color to the Warcraft universe. So yeah, sure, playable Undeads, cool.

Same goes for Blood Elves, they're pretty to balance out the population, has a great lore presence, history, culture, etc.



Both Forsaken and Blood Elves in the Warcraft universe are great.



But what the hell? What the hell happened to the real underdogs, the roots of the Horde?

Orcs, Trolls, Taurens... (Ogres, Goblins, etc) the real, "monsters" that look far from the regular humans.

Where is the love for these races and their leaders, their characters?


Is Sylvanas the only character that Horde is ever going to depend on now?
Just because she is both Forsaken and an Elf(and for SJWs, she's a female too for Blizzard to sell the woman power gimmick)?
Because she sells??


Honestly, nowadays the Horde feels like it completely lost its real identity and colors.
I know, Green Jesus disaster happened, Garrosh happened... but after those failures, Blizzard should've given the Horde more proper characters
that can represent them. Instead, it feels like they are constantly being the victim of the villainization now, especially even more with Sylvanas.


One thing I wish is that they would at least develop Baine further and give him some greater presence, or any Trolls or Orcs.
Introduce more characters to the Horde they deserve!

Gah, I really miss the old Horde instead of the whole pretty undead elf stuff. It's like watching humans vs humans, just with pointy ears, or undead body, regular body.. etc.

[Amirila]

After a few expansions of just orcs, having something else is bad?

[Arrashi]

I don't think anyone, not even blizzard can answer that question. Ever since MoP horde was one massive clusterfuck. And thanks to being irrelevant for last 2 expansions we don't even have fundations to do anything.

[Nize]

Thrall was shown off in the panel as one of the character that is going to play a big role in BfA, so orc love still remains. Saurfang is getting a new model as well. There's still love.

[jellmoo]

Orcs were the focal point for quite a while. It's somewhat interesting for them to step back and another race to get some stage time. Hell, I wish the same would happen Alliance side.

[Magnagarde]

Said it numerous times before. The Horde is turning into a congregation of ex-Alliance races and members, while including some other Alliance spinoff races. It feels like Warcraft's factions are taking eachothers' themes.

An undead high elf warchief, tons of undead humans, night elves(Nightborne) and blood elves are everything the Horde is about now. It was pretty bad before, but after the new expansion announcement it got a lot worse. The other races are there just to charge and die in the charge.

[Marrilaife]

Horde is getting Highmountain Tauren and Zandalari Trolls next expansion, so I would expect there is some "non elf / undead" lore in BFA as well, since the new races require a questline to unlock. Players are also going to Zandalar, not some elven island, so that's another piece of lore that is revolving around one of the old Horde races - Trolls.

This actually sounds more interesting than Alliance going to yet another Human land (Kul Tiras), however I can imagine after getting 2 expansions of going into Draenei places (Draenor and Argus) it's gonna be back to Human "roots". Still, I do hope there's gonna be more lore for other Alliance races, I expect some Dwarves because of Dark Iron story, some Worgen story because of proximity to Lordaeron and Genn's private vendetta against Sylvanas, however Gnomes never seem to get any love and Night Elves seem to only lose stuff (like Teldrassil) and not do anything significant for a long time (they even managed to sway Nightborne towards the Horde lol).

Horde needed some non Orc focus after WOD, but I think both Highmountain Tauren and Zandalar fill partially the gap. Obviously Horde needs more faction leader development, but that's another issue. Most Horde faction leaders have zero presence recently. What did Baine ever do that we know of? Or Gallywix except sitting in his sauna and drinking cocktails? At least on Alliance side Tyrande was running around Valsharah looking for her beloved and then helped liberate Suramar, sadly in both situations she seemed mostly inept (Ysera dies, Malfurion gets kidnapped and Nightborne join the Horde). Genn is running around Stormheim, Velen is chasing Kil'jaeden and Anduin is trying to get into his father's shoes. Definitely more Alliance leader development. But tbh, not sure if that's what players want - just some flagship npc making an appearance instead of getting content about the whole race.

[Not Againnn]

mop had no horde love? an entire raid happened in orgrimmar...

[Destinas]

I doubt we'll be seeing the Horde, as a whole, change to accommodate just the Forsaken and elves of the Horde. It's still vastly orcish/tribal in aesthetic - look at the garrison buildings in WoD - even when they were meant to represent another race, they were still tribal orc buildings with spikes and leather on them. The buildings in Warfronts are orcish as well, despite the Warchief being a Forsaken elf. Those core aesthetics will never change.

It should also be noted that the majority of the Horde is still tribal, or clashes with the western European theme of the Alliance. Forsaken, Blood Elves, Pandaren, and Nightborne are the minority. The Horde still has Orcs, Darkspear Trolls, Tauren, and Goblins like they've always been shown to have (despite the fact that it's a different cartel of Goblins). They're getting more tribal races with the Zandalari and Highmountain Tauren as well, mind you.

Perhaps change your way of looking at it. The Horde is becoming more varied, whereas the Alliance is staying mostly stagnant as far as visuals and races. The Alliance's races are mostly portrayed as "noble" - even the Gilnean Worgen have a Victorian aesthetic to their buildings, clothes, and accent. The Dark Irons and Lightforged Draenei, culturally, have recolored versions of the "main race" they represent, from buildings, to in-game skins, to weapons and armor. They have very little cultural differences. Even Pandaren share quite a bit of the same themes as Night Elves - though Night Elves also have a lot of Korean and Japanese influence as well. Meanwhile, even between the Darkspear and Zandalari, their cultures and aesthetics are completely different (with Darkspears having more of a Caribbean vibe with a bit of Mayan/Aztec, and the Zandalari having almost completely Mayan/Aztec designs).

So, no, it's not all about Forsaken and elves. They're the minority, and they've only had moments to shine in past expansions. Meanwhile, orcs and the main aesthetic of the Horde are a mainstay.

[Dagoth Ur]

All the leaders who represented what Warcraft3 Horde was supposed to be either died or decided to become superhero.

I hope since new expansion focuses heavily on races, root races of the new Horde: orcs, trolls, tauren are gonna get some love too.

[Trassk]

mop had no horde love? an entire raid happened in orgrimmar...

that isn't exactly 'horde love', its attacking the hordes capital city with the opposing faction and the current horde fighting its own people that defended them once. That was less love and more wiping out numbers because many of them went to far.

[Alex86el]

i agree with everything OP said.

[Ragetacular]

Both OP and thread are garbage.

Horde continent is literally Zandalar. The troll fatherland.

2 new non "pretty" races.

also Garrosh was literally the focal point of MoP, and the catalyst of WoD which was a god damn orc expansion. Stop your whining or unsub, we dont care.

[CreatureLives]

Trolls seem to be getting a huge focus this expansion. Not only are we going to Zandalar to recruit more Trolls but Vol'jin's successor is apparently Rokhan.

Tauren had some stuff in Legion. Orcs for several expansions before that. We don't know for sure how much of a focus Forsaken are getting this expansion other than the connection to Sylvanas but I think it's more than time to return to them because they've barely done anything since Wrath.

Blizz just likes taking turns every expansion.

Just like in Legion we had a ton of Elf stuff (Aszuna/Valsharah/Suramar/Demon Hunters), Draenei have had a few expansions and in BFA we seem to finally be returning to Human stuff which really hasn't had that big of a role in quite a while. When I really think of it not really since Vanilla and maybe a bit of Wrath have we had that much Human lore. We do have important Human characters but we don't do a lot of Human themed quest zones anymore. I'm pretty excited to see new Human villains and stuff.

The real races that get screwed over every time are Dwarves, Gnomes and Goblins. When was the last time they did anything meaningful?

Also if it makes you feel better it seems like Saurfang has his biggest role in the game yet and he is the Orc leader as well as Thrall who is supposed to be making his return.

[Deleted]

Blood Elves haven't had a decent storyline since MoP so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that elves seem to be taking the limelight away from the likes of orcs. The Forsaken have barely had anything. Your argument seems to be based around Sylvanas herself rather than elves and Forsaken. Let other races have some time solidifying their roles in their factions, not everything has to be about the races you prefer. And enough with the "one of the main characters is female so they're pandering to SJWs" nonsense.

[Kithelle]

Garrosh was a homicidal maniac, Vol'jin was a lame duck, and Sylvanas is a homicidal maniac...I don't think they know what to do with the Horde in general after Thrall stood down...Trolls still don't have a leader to replace Vol'jin since he took over as Warchief, if I recall. Forsaken don't have anyone to take place of Sylvanas either I imagine...Blightcaller is following her around doing her bidding, so it isn't him.

Makes me wonder if every expansion or two they're going to go through all the Horde leaders till there aren't any left...

- - - Updated - - -

Blood Elves haven't had a decent storyline since MoP so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that elves seem to be taking the limelight away from the likes of orcs. The Forsaken have barely had anything. Your argument seems to be based around Sylvanas herself rather than elves and Forsaken. Let other races have some time solidifying their roles in their factions, not everything has to be about the races you prefer. And enough with the "one of the main characters is female so they're pandering to SJWs" nonsense.

The Blood Elves are the reason the Nightborne are coming to the Horde, I wouldn't say that is nothing.

[Wyrt]

Did you miss Saurfang bitch slapping Anduin so hard he started crying in the cinematic?

There weren't even any blood elves present. And the destruction of Undercity means Orgrimmar is even more important.

[Deleted]

Blizzard should just split factions...

There is so no cultural unity in the Horde. Elven Horde? Tsk... just call it the Red Alliance. The Horde lore doesn't even make sense any more.

In the end, the Horde just exist for PVP gameplay and the faction just exist for entertainment for the Alliance.

[Pandragon]

Love how we have 1 cinematic, and a few art panels and everyones already bitching about the new expansion, without knowing everything thats in it. Main reason so many people say "vanilla was the best". For the last 10 years, everything blizz has done is just met with automatic hate.

[Deleted]

The Blood Elves are the reason the Nightborne are coming to the Horde, I wouldn't say that is nothing.

Yeah, guess I'm looking into the past more than the future. Looks like there will be something of substance for most races next expac.