Arcane mage help

[Deleted]

Hi mage pals!
I play arcane as my alt and I perform bad in raid!
My single target damage is low and I can't figure why. Aoe damage is quite good however(in M+ I start as top on trash until the first boss, when I hit my lowest).
My ivl is 927, 28% crit, 25% haste, 34% mast and 12% vers.
I usually wear legendary hat and the talent ring and I've got ToS 2pc bonus. Talents: 2 2 2 3 1 3 1.
I follow the rule MoA+Rop

Any help is much appreciated!

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I got a couple of logs (avatar&kj normal and sisters hc).

www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Bf4cLNxMFVpDaThj

www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/R1Lc36yBdfHPbXvD

[Talvindius]

A few tips regarding the 2pc since you have it, make sure you're using Arcane power and PoM in conjunction.

It's worth waiting 30s for PoM and Arcane Power rather than using them both on cooldown.

You also want to use rune of power back to back during this window. If you're optimal you can get the 2nd rune off and get around 5s of Arcane power in the 2nd rune, which is useful for stacking those %spellpower buffs.

Make sure you're prepotting and precasting either Mark of Aluneth or Arcane blast (depending on if you blow cds on pull, if yes mark if no blast.)

During your opener get off both PoM blasts asap then go right into any missile procs. Don't wait for the magi debuff to proc before using missiles, using missiles during cds is where a lot of your damage will come from on ST.

Arcane ST is about abusing our overlapping cooldowns, Rune/2pc/Arcane Power all give % buffs which are best used together. Keep this in mind.

[Deleted]

Arcane ST is about abusing our overlapping cooldowns, Rune/2pc/Arcane Power all give % buffs which are best used together. Keep this in mind.

Thank you. I was unsure if wait and overlap all my cd (except on start). I always used 2pc on start to get 4 charges, then 4AB, MoA, RoP, AP. During the fight I didn't mind to synchronize AP and Rop.
Should I postpone MoA too? I'm going to try
4AB, MoA, RoP, AP, 2pc
AB/AM until MoA is back(1min)
MoA, RoP
AB/AM until AP is back (1,5min)
Rop,AP, 2pc
....
the next MoA should overlap with AP.

[Talvindius]

Thank you. I was unsure if wait and overlap all my cd (except on start). I always used 2pc on start to get 4 charges, then 4AB, MoA, RoP, AP. During the fight I didn't mind to synchronize AP and Rop.
Should I postpone MoA too? I'm going to try
4AB, MoA, RoP, AP, 2pc
AB/AM until MoA is back(1min)
MoA, RoP
AB/AM until AP is back (1,5min)
Rop,AP, 2pc
....
the next MoA should overlap with AP.

You don't wanna use mark during cds, the cast time is too long and you end up wasting valuable cd time. Consider that 2pc lasts only 6s and rune only 10.

You should use mark on CD to generate mana during your conserve phase, which is weird for you given that you run the hat legendary. You also want to precast it and try to spend 20% mana as soon as you can to make your initial burn phase last longer on fights when you open with all CDs.

Mark is also the weakest ability to use during CDs because of how it interacts with mastery. Arcane Blast and missiles get a ridiculous amount of bonus damage from % spellpower buffs because they get % multiplier from mastery and vers buffs the base value so they multiply damage really really quickly, whereas mark, despite getting more damage from mastery since it's based off of max mana, is not at the same level of exponential scaling.

Basically don't use mark during CDs. The damage it does on its own is fine and it's really good for stacking up erosion during your precast opener and to make sure you're at high mana during conserve so your next burn is clean.

[davesignal]

Your post is super misleading, dude.

The proper way to use Mark is to cast it prior to your burn phase beginning-- you cast Mark of Aluneth, then use ROP/POM/AP/trinkets. This gets you the best of both worlds: you don't waste GCDs on Mark of Aluneth during your buffs, but most of your Mark of Aluneth is affected by your buffs.

Yes, you use Mark of Aluneth on CD, but because it has a 60 second CD you should be able to stack it with your CDs every other time you cast it.

Further, every Mark of Aluneth should be used in conjunction with Rune of Power. The first Mark of Aluneth use is Mark -> Rune -> POM/AP/Trinkets -> Burn, the second is Mark of Aluneth -> Rune -> Mini-burn until Rune ends, and you trade off back and forth between these two uses.

[Soulwell]

You certainly don't hold mark for rune ever unless it's just a few seconds or you're going to opening burst again. Which is highly unlikely since nothing reduces any of the cds.
So normally it's about 15-20 seconds off from rune.
But let's stick by your logic since you told someone they were wrong. In a 5:30 fight you lose about 2 rune combos and countless value from missles since you're holding Pom also and reducing the cd of nothing.
First mark is correct
Second is wrong, If you lust on the pull by the time your CDs are done depending on procs you can just Evo and start another mini burn with rune/pom. With this mini burn I go a little hard to about 20% mana and as soon as the mini burn is done mark is coming up. Just use it and fall into conserve.
Saving rune for Mark is perfectly fine if it's an AoE situation or you need to burst something down but it is a damage loss.
You aren't losing that much without tier but giving poms strength in conjunction with rune it isn't worth losing 2-3 miniburns and missle value for a small damage increase to mark.

[Talvindius]

You certainly don't hold mark for rune ever unless it's just a few seconds or you're going to opening burst again. Which is highly unlikely since nothing reduces any of the cds.
So normally it's about 15-20 seconds off from rune.
But let's stick by your logic since you told someone they were wrong. In a 5:30 fight you lose about 2 rune combos and countless value from missles since you're holding Pom also and reducing the cd of nothing.
First mark is correct
Second is wrong, If you lust on the pull by the time your CDs are done depending on procs you can just Evo and start another mini burn with rune/pom. With this mini burn I go a little hard to about 20% mana and as soon as the mini burn is done mark is coming up. Just use it and fall into conserve.
Saving rune for Mark is perfectly fine if it's an AoE situation or you need to burst something down but it is a damage loss.
You aren't losing that much without tier but giving poms strength in conjunction with rune it isn't worth losing 2-3 miniburns and missle value for a small damage increase to mark.

This is how I play right here.

[Deleted]

Thank you for you replies and for detalied explanations!

[Deleted]

Your post is super misleading, dude.

The proper way to use Mark is to cast it prior to your burn phase beginning-- you cast Mark of Aluneth, then use ROP/POM/AP/trinkets. This gets you the best of both worlds: you don't waste GCDs on Mark of Aluneth during your buffs, but most of your Mark of Aluneth is affected by your buffs.

Yes, you use Mark of Aluneth on CD, but because it has a 60 second CD you should be able to stack it with your CDs every other time you cast it.

Further, every Mark of Aluneth should be used in conjunction with Rune of Power. The first Mark of Aluneth use is Mark -> Rune -> POM/AP/Trinkets -> Burn, the second is Mark of Aluneth -> Rune -> Mini-burn until Rune ends, and you trade off back and forth between these two uses.

Yeah I don't understand these other posts, Mark is a 1 min cd and Arcane Power is 1.5, seems like a dps loss to use it outside of that.

[Talvindius]

Yeah I don't understand these other posts, Mark is a 1 min cd and Arcane Power is 1.5, seems like a dps loss to use it outside of that.

In practice it's a dps loss to hold mark for ROP/AP/POM. It's more suitable, especially for OP since he's not running Kilt, to use it basically on CD while trying to make sure to get 100% value on the mana return.

[Deleted]

In practice it's a dps loss to hold mark for ROP/AP/POM. It's more suitable, especially for OP since he's not running Kilt, to use it basically on CD while trying to make sure to get 100% value on the mana return.

I've never had mana issues but I have been using kilt for a while now, I can see what you're getting at.

[Soulwell]

I've never had mana issues but I have been using kilt for a while now, I can see what you're getting at.

If you aren't on the border of mana issues as arcane you're doing it wrong. With pants mana is negligible so it doesn't really matter because you're always mana positive But with other legendaries you don't get that. I'm unsure about if you have the belt if you should save mark for CDs, I imagine you would since it makes mark do insane damage. The way explained above is still what you should do even with pants with this current tier set.

[Talvindius]

I've never had mana issues but I have been using kilt for a while now, I can see what you're getting at.

Running shard and soul rings are top for ST and you definitely don't have the mana regen to save mark for CDs unless your mastery is insanely high, which is a different problem entirely.

[davesignal]

In practice it's a dps loss to hold mark for ROP/AP/POM. It's more suitable, especially for OP since he's not running Kilt, to use it basically on CD while trying to make sure to get 100% value on the mana return.

Dude, you're bad at math. You don't have to hold Mark to stack it with everything. Rune of Power has a 40 second CD. Mark of Aluneth has a 1 minute CD. Arcane Power has a 1:30 CD.

The only way the CDs don't line up is if you're not hitting buttons on CD.

0 minute: Mark + AP + Rune
0:15 seconds: Rune
1 minute: Mark + Rune
1:30 minute: Mark + AP
2 minute: Mark + rune
3 minute: Mark + AP + Rune
And so on, and so forth.

If you can't even understand this basic timing then you should not be giving people advice.

[Soulwell]

Dude, you're bad at math. You don't have to hold Mark to stack it with everything. Rune of Power has a 40 second CD. Mark of Aluneth has a 1 minute CD. Arcane Power has a 1:30 CD.

The only way the CDs don't line up is if you're not hitting buttons on CD.

0 minute: Mark + AP + Rune
0:15 seconds: Mark
1 minute: Mark + Rune
1:30 minute: Mark + AP
2 minute: Mark + rune
3 minute: Mark + AP + Rune
And so on, and so forth.

If you can't even understand this basic timing then you should not be giving people advice.

You aren't taking into account using both runes on pull or having both up for 2nd/3rd round with bird trinket.
Also didn't say you needed to hold mark, it was how you shouldn't hold rune for mark you should just throw it out during conserve for mana and use rune/Pom on cd for mini burns until you hold for big burn.

[davesignal]

Read the post again.

[Soulwell]

Read the post again.

Ditto

[Talvindius]

Dude, you're bad at math. You don't have to hold Mark to stack it with everything. Rune of Power has a 40 second CD. Mark of Aluneth has a 1 minute CD. Arcane Power has a 1:30 CD.

The only way the CDs don't line up is if you're not hitting buttons on CD.

0 minute: Mark + AP + Rune
0:15 seconds: Mark
1 minute: Mark + Rune
1:30 minute: Mark + AP
2 minute: Mark + rune
3 minute: Mark + AP + Rune
And so on, and so forth.

If you can't even understand this basic timing then you should not be giving people advice.

I have a few bonus points into AP uptime so I always use both runes during ROP. Doing that would mean I have 30s downtime on AP and my 2nd RoP when my mark comes off cooldown assuming I used it on pull.

Mark alone isn't enough to warrant using a rune change since that would mean I would only have 1 up for PoM/AP.

I understand your logic it's just not better than what I do currently.

Also how can you cast mark on pull AND have it up at 15s, then again at 1m, then at 1:30? It has a 1 min cd, I think YOUR math is off LOL.

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You aren't taking into account using both runes on pull or having both up for 2nd/3rd round with bird trinket.
Also didn't say you needed to hold mark, it was how you shouldn't hold rune for mark you should just throw it out during conserve for mana and use rune/Pom on cd for mini burns until you hold for big burn.

This is accurate to how I play.

[davesignal]

Mark at 0:15 seconds is a typo, should say Rune.