Hypothetical Scenario: Vanilla Class Balance.

[Kralljin]

The easiest solution would be how TBC did it; have raid tier armor be tokens that you "buy" the gear, and one gear set for every spec.

That will most certainly not happen.

This is a product of TBC, not Vanilla.

You had to balance those set items statwise, introduce set bonuses and so forth, far too much meddling.

Aside from that, how do you handle sets like ZG / AQ 20, those get new bonuses as well?

Set bonuses could introduce the shortcomings, for example could prot paladins get a "spiritual attunement" set bonus to solve mana isssues.

In case you don't remember, due that Talent many Holy paladins specced deep into Prot so they won't run out of mana at the cost of healing output.

And that doesn't even fix one of the issues prot pallies had, being unable to generate threat while not holding aggro, they oom and are unable to regain mana because they don't take damage.

[Dergiab]

That will most certainly not happen.

That is why this is a thought-experiment

This is a product of TBC, not Vanilla.

You had to balance those set items statwise, introduce set bonuses and so forth, far too much meddling.

Aside from that, how do you handle sets like ZG / AQ 20, those get new bonuses as well?


In case you don't remember, due that Talent many Holy paladins specced deep into Prot so they won't run out of mana at the cost of healing output.

And that doesn't even fix one of the issues prot pallies had, being unable to generate threat while not holding aggro, they oom and are unable to regain mana because they don't take damage.

Good points!

[kubuntu]

If blizz will start buffing and changing classes and gear to make it more "balance' and "frendly" then PvE will become much easier and wont be much to diffrent then now days timewalking

[Dergiab]

If blizz will start buffing and changing classes and gear to make it more "balance' and "frendly" then PvE will become much easier and wont be much to diffrent then now days timewalking

Feel free to provide specific details. This is a thought-experiment afterall.

[solarfallz]

I just want to preface this with me saying this is just a thought-experiment, I'm not necessarily for or against the idea I'm about to propose, but I am very interested on views and opinions of people who are both for and against Vanilla undergoing minor class balance changes.

The idea is a simple one. What if Enhance Shaman's Stormstrike (originally a 20 second cooldown) now increases all nature damage taken by 20%, not just from the Shaman themself...

Stormstrike already works for other targets, but only has 2 charges.

Not even going to read the rest because you're another clueless changeposter advocating changes to things you don't even understand to begin with.

[Kralljin]

That is why this is a thought-experiment

Yeah and this thought experiment would quite likely turn into a balancing nightmare, ignoring the fact that you're introducing TBC changes into Vanilla.

[Sormine]

Stormstrike already works for other targets, but only has 2 charges.

Not even going to read the rest because you're another clueless changeposter advocating changes to things you don't even understand to begin with.

Toxicity doesn't help the discussion at all.

[Morssoe]

GET THIS RIGHT, blizzard will never get it balanced. You will be defeated and blame blizzard. Fuck, If you somehow defeat someone other than "hybrid tax" class you get bashed for being over tuned. YOU WILL NEVER FEEL THAT YOU HAVE BALANCE.

[solarfallz]

Toxicity doesn't help the discussion at all.

The point isn't to help the discussion. The point is to tell him why he shouldn't be having the discussion to begin with.

[Sormine]

GET THIS RIGHT, blizzard will never get it balanced. You will be defeated and blame blizzard. Fuck, If you somehow defeat someone other than "hybrid tax" class you get bashed for being over tuned. YOU WILL NEVER FEEL THAT YOU HAVE BALANCE.

It wouldn't be hard to adjust some of the classes to make it feel more competitive. It doesn't have to be, nor should it be, perfectly balanced. Rogues and Mages should still do a lot of damage, just not by the margin that was in vanilla.

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The point isn't to help the discussion. The point is to tell him why he shouldn't be having the discussion to begin with.

But there should be a discussion. That's what a lot of people have been asking for.

And you're not telling him why there shouldn't be a discussion, you're telling him why his example was wrong and giving him shit for it.

[Morssoe]

Rogues and Mages should still do a lot of damage, just not by the margin that was in vanilla.

wtf`? they blow their cds to defeat that one guy? you think that is dmg? that is only way they can hope to defeat anyone.

[solarfallz]

But there should be a discussion. That's what a lot of people have been asking for.

And you're not telling him why there shouldn't be a discussion, you're telling him why his example was wrong and giving him shit for it.

There doesn't need to be a discussion, because every single changeposter I've ever seen has no clue what they're talking about. There is no reason to give people a platform to discuss changes to something they don't understand to begin with.

Just like there doesn't need to be a discussion amongst non-programmers about how programming languages should be designed, or a discussion about how the rules of tennis need to be changed by people who don't know the rules to begin with.

If you are going to have a discussion about changes, you need to have extensive knowledge of the game. Most people don't, but insist on spouting their opinions anyway. It's pointless.

[Sormine]

There doesn't need to be a discussion, because every single changeposter I've ever seen has no clue what they're talking about. There is no reason to give people a platform to discuss changes to something they don't understand to begin with.

Just like there doesn't need to be a discussion amongst non-programmers about how programming languages should be designed, or a discussion about how the rules of tennis need to be changed by people who don't know the rules to begin with.

If you are going to have a discussion about changes, you need to have extensive knowledge of the game. Most people don't, but insist on spouting their opinions anyway. It's pointless.

Telling people "You don't know what you're talking about" isn't as strong of an argument as you may think. It doesn't take 500 days plus some to see that certain classes were basically the red headed step children of vanilla wow. We're discussing ways to tweak these classed without altering the vanilla experience for everyone else so we don't see a saturation of rogues/warriors/mages.

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wtf`? they blow their cds to defeat that one guy? you think that is dmg? that is only way they can hope to defeat anyone.

I don't understand what you're asking. Is this in a PvP perspective? I'm talking more PvE based changes. (Which is still plausible, as the majority of vanilla PvP was based around burst damage, it wouldn't be hard to tune static damage to classes)

[DrStiglit]

If blizz will start buffing and changing classes and gear to make it more "balance' and "frendly" then PvE will become much easier and wont be much to diffrent then now days timewalking

I get what you’re saying, but given what we know now no one will play most of the other classes without balance. No one these days wants to be a buff bot.

[RobertMugabe]

There is a thread about that. 38% people said 1.1, 30% said 1.12, rest didn't care or picked random patches. Regardless of what happens, people will be unhappy.

Blizzard could be just constantly opening up new realms which start 1.1 (only serverside) and progress them to 1.12.

[Sixnno]

See, i don't want balance in the sense that every one is equal. That isn't vanilla style.

I want balance in the sense that the purrs do, let's say 1000 dps. Hybrid DPS will do 700.
However, classes at the end had some close to outer and some way way below. Like wayyy below.

[Dergiab]

Well this thread derailed as usual, because people can't even read the first post.

Good job of completely missing the point.

[Sixnno]

To those who say itemization will be an issue. They could always increase a class's coefficient to be higher. So instead of 2attack power per str, a classcould get 2.5, ect. No changes in gear that drops.

[Aggrophobic]

Any for of changes to any of the classes is a bad idea. In every way.

[Morssoe]

I don't understand what you're asking. Is this in a PvP perspective? I'm talking more PvE based changes. (Which is still plausible, as the majority of vanilla PvP was based around burst damage, it wouldn't be hard to tune static damage to classes)

What do you expect equal dmg for everyone? There are classes that deal dmg and don't give raid anything. Is it really that hard to see through that?