Belgium: Lootoboxes are gambling, potential EU wide ban

[Sorshen]

Inb4 EU game prices increased by 50-100% to counter it.

EA can try to raise prices. If they want to lose even more.

if loot boxes are gambling and need to be banned. Does that mean TCG games that sell cards in covered packs are also gambling?
Is a pack of MTG cards really different than a lootbox?

Loot boxes provide a guaranteed reward for your purchase unlike actual gambling. And get out of here with the "casinos could say you aren't gambling if they give everyone a free mars bar at the end of the night". A loot box is an individual item for a purchasable cost that has a set number of rewards as options.

While I am not a fan of lootboxes, calling them gambling is a huge stretch in my eyes. Is the purchase of any "pack" of items I don't individually pick out now gambling?

TCG means trading. Can you trade in these games? No? There you have it.

[Deleted]

None of those games has been out for 2 years.......

OW has, and it has given me free updates on a very regular basis. All of which would not have been possible if we did not have lootboxes.

Now I don't give a shit about lootboxes or cosmetic shit and if they put something else in like skins for sale thats fine.
I am just afraid I have to start forking out 30 euro for some dlc just because some people can't control them selfs on lootboxes and start craeting a fuzz.

[Sorshen]

All of which would not have been possible if we did not have lootboxes.

*citation needed* You're just talking out of your ass.

[Accendor]

if loot boxes are gambling and need to be banned. Does that mean TCG games that sell cards in covered packs are also gambling?
Is a pack of MTG cards really different than a lootbox?

Loot boxes provide a guaranteed reward for your purchase unlike actual gambling. And get out of here with the "casinos could say you aren't gambling if they give everyone a free mars bar at the end of the night". A loot box is an individual item for a purchasable cost that has a set number of rewards as options.

While I am not a fan of lootboxes, calling them gambling is a huge stretch in my eyes. Is the purchase of any "pack" of items I don't individually pick out now gambling?

Fun story: Some european countries actually consider mtg some form of gambling. Thats why for example in germany and austria it is not allowed to give out price money for tournaments and in austria there even was a case where a gp was made 18+.

The small difference in many card games is that you actually play with the cards you get from a pack. The format is called limited or draft in mtg and officially booster packs are used to play this format. All other formats exists so a player can still use the cards he got from playing limited. I hope you can see the difference here, because for that purpose a pack of cards is considered game material that you need to play the game.
No idea how Hearthstone handels this tbh.
But also fun fact: Do you know this collectible stickers for football players etc from companies like Panini?'Technically those are closer to lootboxes and therefore closer to gambling than mtg.

But all in all even mtg is in a grey zone, yes. And believe me, I worked in that industrie, this was a fact we always had to be aware of when organizing tournaments in different cities and locations. And no, I did not work for Wizards directly.

[Deleted]

*citation needed* You're just talking out of your ass.

How else would that be paid for?

[Jtbrig7390]

OW has.

Nope Overwatch released May 24, 2016. It has only been out almost 2 years. So even overwatch hasn't given you 2 years of gameplay.

Also you said none of those games implying your talking about the ones @dope_danny was talking about. So nether the games he listed or Overwatch has been out 2 years.

- - - Updated - - -

How else would that be paid for?

The money they made from the box sell of Overwatch.

How has Titanfall 2 been getting free updates/content without using MT's......

[Accendor]

OW has, and it has given me free updates on a very regular basis. All of which would not have been possible if we did not have lootboxes.

Now I don't give a shit about lootboxes or cosmetic shit and if they put something else in like skins for sale thats fine.
I am just afraid I have to start forking out 30 euro for some dlc just because some people can't control them selfs on lootboxes and start craeting a fuzz.

Google for Freemium Whales and you will see that the people you so despise are making 70% of the profit for thos systems. It is catered to them, they are paying for game updates. Not you, who just buys 1-2'boxes a month or so.

[toxicrusader]

Well, lootboxes are a form of gambling, right?

Inb4 gaming companies will just sell a crap thing for the same price and "give" lootboxes as bonuses.

[breadisfunny]

looks like hawaii has also weighed in as well:

[Marc7]

I don't understand why you think is ONLY Blizzard who use that gambling model. Look a bit in Google Store, there are endless examples. Is not only Blizzard.

I am from EU and so far I think we deserve some mentions: data protection, cookie policies, roaming cell phones zero taxes and a lot of things. Lootboxes if get's into discussion will basically be destroyed in first day, data protection debate was a huge scandal with mega corps involved.

I am from the EU as well.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I know it's not only Blizzard, I know Blizzard isn't even bad compared to many other companies. I think that countries and the EU looking into the whole lootbox system is an exceptionally good thing for gaming as a whole.

[Aeula]

Inb4 EU game prices increased by 50-100% to counter it.

This. There’s no way this can end well. As much as I’d like them to stop trying to nickel and dime us.

I can ignore loot boxes, I can’t ignore a price hike or games getting banned/dying because of a potential new law.

[Coombs]

This. There’s no way this can end well. As much as I’d like them to stop trying to nickel and dime us.

I can ignore loot boxes, I can’t ignore a price hike or games getting banned/dying because of a potential new law.

I sort of despise the $60 price tag being the standard. Some AAA games are worth far less, and others are worth far more. I would have paid $100 for Witcher 3 without expansions and paid more for those. Other games are worth $20 at best. This is what they will do though, and they will market the game well, build the hype, and people will pay outrageous amounts for a short and clunky game with no replay value. I'd prefer that system to the loot box one any day.

[Deleted]

You pay real life money in hopes of a specific outcome from a random pool of outcomes, and you get shit instead. It's the definition of gambling.

I pay a sub every month for WoW in the hopes of earning that gear I want. Did I just gamble my real life money on a random pool of outcomes?

That is simply using your definition and logic.

[Gorsameth]

This. There’s no way this can end well. As much as I’d like them to stop trying to nickel and dime us.

I can ignore loot boxes, I can’t ignore a price hike or games getting banned/dying because of a potential new law.

Then their sales crater as everyone turns to piracy, studio's go bankrupt and eventually they will learn to sell games for a more acceptable price and instead not spend hundreds of millions on marketing budgets.

[Aeula]

Then their sales crater as everyone turns to piracy, studio's go bankrupt and eventually they will learn to sell games for a more acceptable price and instead not spend hundreds of millions on marketing budgets.

I wish, doubt that’ll ever happen to be honest. There’ll always be people who are either against pirating for moral reasons or don’t trust it.

[Coombs]

I pay a sub every month for WoW in the hopes of earning that gear I want. Did I just gamble my real life money on a random pool of outcomes?

That is simply using your definition and logic.

If you had to pay $5 per boss kill then your point would stand.

[Deleted]

https://nieuws.vtm.be/vtm-nieuws/bin...ames-verbieden

I am sorry, I created this thread in off-topic but this is probably better place to discuss it. Hopefully, it is not big issue.

It's probably gonna mean new ratings.

[Teri]

I am pretty sure this just applies to Belgium, not the EU as a whole, so the title of potential EU ban is very misleading.

Chances are, it will be discussed in Belgian parliament for about 40 years, because they are totally ineffective at anything, and the rest of the EU won't give a shit.

Belgium =//= EU Brussels.

No , it also applies to :

EU:
Netherlands : Investigating lootboxes/gambling
France : Thinking about doing the same.

Non EU:
Hawaii: Spoke about EA’s ‘predatory’ practices.

It could spread, it could not, but it's not strictly Belgium at all, they are just the first to potentially go beyond the investigating phase. (mixed reports make it seem they haven't decided fully yet)

In the end it can still take weeks/months, nothing is really official yet.

[Shiandra]

If you think about it any kind of loot dropping is gamboling because of the rng, so there may come a day when certain places don't allow game bosses to drop loot.

[cordrann]

Who cares even if it is gambling? Why does Europe hate freedom?