Trump announcing on Weds that USA recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel

[wunksta]

It's a nice sum of money after all, so why not?

Just seems weird to ask for money for defense, and then turn around and laugh that it's barely meaningful.

Also, just for clarity, Israel spends $23 billion on it's defense, so we give 7% of that budget.

[Gaidax]

Just seems weird to ask for money for defense, and then turn around and laugh that it's barely meaningful.

Also, just for clarity, Israel spends $23 billion on it's defense, so we give 7% of that budget.

Ultimately Israel would spend $23 billion on defense regardless of that pittance, again, it's cute lump of money, no doubt. Not critical, however. As every major deal and this is one of such, of course it is viewed important, but let's get off the tree a peg, US is not feeding Israel there.

You get to call the shots to some extent and have one country in the region that does not burn your flags on the streets every other day. It's a good deal, like your president likes to say.

[wunksta]

Ultimately Israel would spend $23 billion on defense regardless of that pittance, again, it's cute lump of money, no doubt. Not critical, however. As every major deal and this is one of such, of course it is viewed important, but let's get off the tree a peg, US is not feeding Israel there.

That was never my claim. I was responding to the quote that said Israel is left on their own with 'little' help. That's false, as we are helping them and their allies in the region. If Israel is fully capable of defending themselves without our help, that's great. They should stop asking us for that aid. We can use that money elsewhere.

My point is, you can't say that Israel doesn't need our help, and then cry that Israel is surrounded by enemies and no one is helping.

[Deleted]

The Palestinians have rejected every offer Israel has made. They even rejected an offer that would have given them over 90% of the land they were demanding.

Source? So can you show the map of the limit in that offer? Date? And if it is ture we can turn the coin... Israel rejected the Palestinians counterproposal that would have given Israel over 90% of the land they were demanding......

[Khaza-R]

That's also less than 1% of Israel's GDP, for comparison. Egypt - the renown champion of Middle East human rights got $72 billion so far in "aid", for example. Yearly they were getting comparable sums, they just lately decided to execute a bit too much protesters, so US temporarily halted aid, but seems like is about to resume it.

This "aid" is just a way for US to have influence in the region, it is a nice lump of money for sure, but let's not pretend it's what saves Israel or something, shall we?

It's not free money, it's "you do what we say, or else you won't get money" kind of money here.

72 billion in 63 years. For a country that is 48 times as massive as Israel and 10x as populated. And yet it’s still less than the ~3 billion given to Israel every year. I’m not really sure what the point of your comparison is other than to highlight its preferential treatment

[Gaidax]

72 billion in 63 years. For a country that is 48 times as massive as Israel and 10x as populated. And yet it’s still less than the ~3 billion given to Israel every year. I’m not really sure what the point of your comparison is other than to highlight its preferential treatment

I must say, as a side note, it's kinda fun seeing Egypt GDP being same as Israel seeing how massive and populated it is.

Preferential treatment? Yes I guess that's how it works for stable and reliable allied country as opposed to to clown states with revolutions and mass protester death sentences every other year.

[Deleted]

Palestinian terrorist organization calling for violence??? Quickly we must convene UN council and pass resolution condemning Israel!

It did work very well for Lehi, there terrorism was rewared with a country.... maybe Hammas need to mimic Lehi more and start to murder more UN Peace-negotiators... especially if they are famous for saving many Jews from the holocaust.....and massacre a village....

I was ironic if you missed it, I think Hammas are scumbags... But Israel shall have the self awareness to recognice that there land was founded with help of terrorism.....

[Aehl]

I was talking about the current situation where Israel was at the cusp of being recognized by the Arab world for the first time only for Trump to take a giant dump on it. There is no alternative but peace unless you want to celebrate victory over the radioactive dead bodies from what will be left in the middle east.

No they werent and they never will and you know it.

HAMAS recognising Israel?

You have GOT to be joking.

You actually BELIEVE THAT?

- - - Updated - - -

I think you got your names backwards.



Palestine has been losing ground to Israeli invasion and "settlements" for almost a century now. Time to pull your head out of the sand.

Can i have a link to where you got that map?

Because even when I was growing up, I dont ever remember seeing a map with a nation called Palestine on it. Not on school not anywhere.

Where did that map come from?

[Gaidax]

It did work very well for Lehi, there terrorism was rewared with a country.... maybe Hammas need to mimic Lehi more and start to murder more UN Peace-negotiators... especially if they are famous for saving many Jews from the holocaust.....and massacre a village....

I was ironic if you missed it, I think Hammas are scumbags... But Israel shall have the self awareness to recognice that there land was founded with help of terrorism.....

That's for sure and that's how it goes for thousands of years in this hellhole - there was killing around the clock, Crusaders killed Muslims, Muslims killed Crusaders, Turks killed locals, locals and Brits killed Turks, Brits killed Jews and Arabs, Jews (and Arabs btw) killed Brits, then they kill each other.

The only difference now that this has finally became a functioning and successful state of it's own as opposed to being someone's bitch land. One side chooses to move on and create an actual solid country, other side decides to create more violence instead of abiding by mutual agreements that already were made. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

[Shadowferal]

It's not free money, it's "you do what we say, or else you won't get money" kind of money here.

It's a treaty actually. SALTII

[Breccia]

Palestinian president: US can no longer oversee peace process

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said on Friday that President Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital undercut the ability of the United States to broker a peace deal between the Palestinians and Israelis.

"We reject the American decision over Jerusalem," Abbas said in a statement reported by Reuters. "With this position the United States has become no longer qualified to sponsor the peace process."

Trump has vowed to broker a peace agreement between the Israelis and Palestinians, which he has called the "ultimate deal."

But his announcement on Wednesday recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel prompted backlash from leaders in the Arab and Muslim worlds, who warned that the decision would stir outrage and instability in the region.

Abbas's rejection of U.S.-brokered negotiations on Friday highlighted the intense response to Trump's decision, as well as the challenge he faces in trying to get both sides to come to the table for peace talks.

[Draco-Onis]

No they werent and they never will and you know it.

HAMAS recognising Israel?

You have GOT to be joking.

You actually BELIEVE THAT?

It was US allies in the region with Saudi Arabia brokering the deal in order to face the threat of Iran. Saudi Arabia has been trying to exert further pressure on Hamas financially to encourage them to cut their ties to Iran like I already said it was the first step towards peace and Israel getting some back up. Oh I forget you are stuck in a time bubble and know nothing about the current situation in the middle east.

[Deleted]

The only difference now that this has finally became a functioning and successful state of it's own as opposed to being someone's bitch land. One side chooses to move on and create an actual solid country, other side decides to create more violence instead of abiding by mutual agreements that already were made. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

So what you are saying is terrorism are acceptable as long the outcome is a actual solid country?

[DarkTZeratul]

So what you are saying is terrorism are acceptable as long the outcome is a actual solid country?

I think that from a purely objective standpoint history has borne out that usually is.

[Gaidax]

So what you are saying is terrorism are acceptable as long the outcome is a actual solid country?

Terrorism is not acceptable and Lehi was designated as terrorist organization, surely later on it got whitewashed, but I do not claim Israel does not have it's own skeletons in the drawer. It was a black sheep organization that was swept away once they got too extremist.

Ultimately, however, it does not matter what was then, what matters is reality now and I am glad US accepted it and others will eventually be on the way with this done. Palestinians are unfortunate to be stuck with Hamas, there could have been agreement 5 times over if not that and squabbling over details.

But it's on them to recognize the reality and reject ones who drag them down from inside... if they can that is, without getting bullet in the back of their heads as "Zionist agents" from their ganster leadership.

[Aehl]

It was US allies in the region with Saudi Arabia brokering the deal in order to face the threat of Iran. Saudi Arabia has been trying to exert further pressure on Hamas financially to encourage them to cut their ties to Iran like I already said it was the first step towards peace and Israel getting some back up. Oh I forget you are stuck in a time bubble and know nothing about the current situation in the middle east.

I know far more than you may realise and from that one thing is perfectly clear:

HAMAS has no intention of ever recognising Israel

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-...nians/1.818235

Dated Oct 19, 2017

Hamas will not disarm, recognize Israel or cut off ties with Iran, as Israel and the United States are demanding of it, Yahya Sinwar, the organization’s leader in the Gaza Strip, said on Thursday.

and

Meeting with Palestinian youths, Sinwar declared, "The discussion is no longer about recognizing Israel but about wiping Israel out."

and

The Hamas member said Sinwar sought to send the message that Hamas opted for reconciliation as a strategic choice, not out of weakness. That is why he stressed Hamas’ military build-up, its refusal to recognize Israel and its desire to wipe it off the map, he said.

And you are telling me that HAMAS intended to do a 180 on this?

Not in the next 1000 years. There is no chance for peace as long as HAMAS is adamant of its goals, and until HAMAS backs down and recognises Israel, there will BE none.

[Draco-Onis]

Not in the next 1000 years. There is no chance for peace as long as HAMAS is adamant of its goals, and until HAMAS backs down and recognises Israel, there will BE none.

Wow dude I was joking about it but I am really starting to think you can't read. Do you not recognize how huge it would have been for all the Us allies in the region to join Israel against Iran and pressure Hamas? try reading this time very slowly.

[Aehl]

Wow dude I was joking about it but I am really starting to think you can't read. Do you not recognize how huge it would have been for all the Us allies in the region to join Israel against Iran and pressure Hamas? try reading this time very slowly.

Oh I do indeed..and I know it will never happen.

It would have been huge..if there was any chance it was ever going to happen. You keep going onto this "If Trump didnt do this there would have been peace"....thats delusional. We can hope for peace all we like, the bottom line is that there will never be.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/carter...netanyahu-not/

The president, who has been visiting Israel and the West Bank, met with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas Saturday but didn’t meet with Netanyahu or President Reuven Rivlin

and

Hope for and belief in peace are the reasons that Israel gave up all of the Sinai for peace with Egypt, why Israel made peace with Jordan, left Lebanon, and left all of Gaza. Israel works daily in cooperation with the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank on security issues for both Israelis and Palestinians and to aid in the economic development of Palestinian communities. All those who hope and pray for a lasting peace should support Israel in its war against Hamas, which not only violently seeks Israel’s destruction, but is callously and cynically indifferent to the welfare of Palestinians

Did you ever stop to think that the reason for the announcement is because that deal fell through?

As long as HAMAS exists, it will wage war on Israel. All the pressure and all the diplomatic efforts wont work. They never will.

You can indulge in all the wishful thinking you like..it wont change a thing..even IF a peace treaty was signed with this agreement with the Saudis...HAMAS will never stop.

Never.

[Draco-Onis]

Oh I do indeed..and I know it will never happen.

Yes I bow to your psychic power you obviously know more than the Saudis, the King of Jordan and others working on the deal. Whatever you want to tell yourself to feel better people like you only want blood in the streets anyways since you are stuck in the past.

[Breccia]

Haley: UN one of 'world's foremost centers of hostility towards Israel'

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley slammed the organization's past treatment of Israel on Friday in her defense of President Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as the Israeli capital.

"Over many years the United Nations has outrageously been of the world's foremost centers of hostility towards Israel," Haley said, according to CNN, during an emergency Security Council meeting called in response to Trump's declaration this week.

"The U.N. has done much more damage to the prospects of Middle East peace than to advance them. We will not be a party to that," she continued.

Global experts say Trump's move could do significant damage to peace talks with the Palestinians, who have long considered East Jerusalem the site of a future capital in a two-state solution.

"The U.S. no longer stands by when Israel is unfairly attacked in the United Nations," Haley said.

"And the United States will not be lectured to by countries that lack any credibility when it comes to treating both Israelis and Palestinians fairly."

Bolded for lack of self awareness.