Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[LaserSharkDFB]

I'm gonna need an explanation.

The clue is in the last paragraph:

Once again, Trump spits on the press, and proves his toddler tantrums no know bounds. I'm sure the resident Trumpkins will say "fake news" but how would they feel if Trump decided to walk out of a FOX interview?

...which is exactly what he did.

[Ripster42]

I'm confused. Both links talk about an interview with Judge Jeanine.

They talk about different things in the interview not mentioned in the other article from what I can tell.

[Breccia]

Rex Tillerson ends his EU trip having been pretty much discredited all the way across the continent.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson during his week in Europe sought to shoot down any perceptions of distance between him and President Donald Trump.

He faced questions from allies at every turn about the president’s most controversial decisions, including his bombshell midweek announcement that the U.S. was recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

But Tillerson defiantly made his way around Europe regardless. And when asked by reporters when he's planning to leave his post, the secretary of state said, “You all need to get some new sources.”

On Tuesday in Brussels, he stood next to the European Union’s chief diplomat, Federica Mogherini, while she condemned the U.S. for abandoning the Iran nuclear deal. The next day at the NATO headquarters, Turkey's Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu, ahead of walking into a meeting with Tillerson, called the U.S.’s Jerusalem decision a “grave mistake.”

After that, the U.K.’s Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson stepped away from Tillerson to insist that the U.S. implement their Middle East process immediately.

Throughout the week, Tillerson faced questions from the press about whether the U.S.'s European allies will still stand with the U.S., given the new administration has abandoned the Europeans on agreements like the Paris Climate Accord and the Iran nuclear deal.

But Tillerson seemed to suggest that the door is still open on issues that Trump has wholly dismissed.

“[The] truth of the matter is, we’ve not disengaged from the climate discussions,” Tillerson said at press conference in Vienna. He noted that the U.S. still sent a representative to the United Nations' Climate Change conference. In the past, Trump has seemed skeptical of climate change.

And though the president has called the Iran deal an “embarrassment,” Tillerson said this week the U.S. is still a part of the deal.

“We are using that agreement and working with our European partners in particular to truly hold Iran accountable to its responsibilities as to its nuclear program,” he said.

Regarding the announcement on Jerusalem, Tillerson seemed to downplay the president’s words. “The reality is as you wake up today after this announcement ... nothing is different, other than the president has now implemented the 1995 law.”

Not even Tillerson believes this.

Tillerson had a short break from rebukes at the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, where Ukraine was top of the agenda. He sought to rally European allies to be more aggressive with Russia, calling it “biggest threat to European security.”

He also came seeking commitments from Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov to protect peacekeeping forces in Ukraine and to ultimately halt Russian aggression in the region.

On Thursday, when asked what type of progress came of meeting with Lavrov, Tillerson said, “We get progress, that’s what we get.”

We get dialogue, we get cooperation,” he added. “We don’t have it solved. You don’t solve it in one meeting.

Tillerson called Ukraine "single most difficult obstacle to normalizing relations with Russia," omitting any mentions of election interference or cyberhacking.

For his part, Lavrov was one of the few leaders who did not publicly condemn Tillerson for the Jerusalem announcement. In fact, when pressed, he claimed he couldn’t hear a question on the matter twice shouted by ABC News.

Tillerson also had a brief meeting with the US ambassador to the EU, who said "I don't exist". When asked by both Democrats and Republicans how the situation would be dealt with, Trump's nominee to EU ambassador replied "I don't exist, either." Nikki Haley, trying to organize a show of unification with US policy, got the ambassadors to Ireland, Finland, Austria, Belgium, Germany, Hungary, Norway, Sweden, and of course Luxembourg, to all sign a statement. The statement read "None of us exist, but to be fair, there is a nominee for Germany. Just not the rest of us."

Meanwhile, as Trump weighs in on the Saudi-Yemeni feud, the US ambassadors yeah ok the joke ran its course, no ambassadors to either country.

[jdbond592]

So again your argument is the rules are unfair in your opinion so Trump is a bad businessman.

Nah, precisely the kind of model businessman who can fix all the ills of our society, including our financial mess. That was your point, right?

[Doctor Amadeus]

In this world there are only two types of people to me people who voted Hillary who I would go out of my way to help and Trumpsters who’s lives I don’t care about and see as the enemy. Everyone else doesn’t exist.

[Deadite]

In this world there are only two types of people to me people who voted Hillary who I would go out of my way to help and Trumpsters who’s lives I don’t care about and see as the enemy. Everyone else doesn’t exist.

You could be the most narrow minded person i have seen on these forums.

[Kujako]

In this world there are only two types of people to me people who voted Hillary who I would go out of my way to help and Trumpsters who’s lives I don’t care about and see as the enemy. Everyone else doesn’t exist.

It seems like a major burden, to live with so much animosity.

[Breccia]

The undersecretary of the UN just returned from North Korea with an urgent message, calling for immediate reduction of tension in the area and as much diplomacy as can be brought to bear.

Mr. Feltman had a series of meetings with H.E. Mr. RI Yong Ho, Minister for Foreign Affairs, and H.E. Mr. PAK Myong Guk, Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs, of the DPRK. They exchanged views on the Korean Peninsula and agreed that the current situation was the most tense and dangerous peace and security issue in the world today.

Mr. Feltman emphasised the need for the full implementation of all relevant Security Council resolutions. He also said there can only be a diplomatic solution to the situation, achieved through a process of sincere dialogue. Time is of the essence.

Noting the urgent need to prevent miscalculations and open channels to reduce the risks of conflict, Mr. Feltman underlined that the international community, alarmed by escalating tensions, is committed to the achievement of a peaceful solution to the situation on the Korean Peninsula.

It might have something to do with the fact that “The deaths of millions may be one tiny tantrum away."

Meanwhile, the USA, Japan, and SK practice anti-missile drills.

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Gallup weighs in on party affiliation since the election.

[Templar 331]

The undersecretary of the UN just returned from North Korea with an urgent message, calling for immediate reduction of tension in the area and as much diplomacy as can be brought to bear.



It might have something to do with the fact that “The deaths of millions may be one tiny tantrum away."

Meanwhile, the USA, Japan, and SK practice anti-missile drills.

As much as I hate Trump's poor handling of NK I don't think easing up on them would be a good thing, even if not doing so runs the risk of war. It would only show how weak we are when dealing with a true threat. Once that happens who will be next to bluff us?

[Breccia]

As much as I hate Trump's poor handling of NK I don't think easing up on them would be a good thing, even if not doing so runs the risk of war.

I understand your point. Basically, if someone throws the first punch in a bar fight, then his two friends stand up...well, you have two choices, both bad.

I still hope that other, non-US countries can bring this to a least a leveling out point, if not a reduction. Hell, I'm surprised China and NK didn't come out, hand in hand, and say "We fixed the problem and Trump did nothing at all to help. We brought back peace, because Trump is IMPOTUS." (This would be managed by China basically bribing NK to stay quiet for a few years) China's been on the move for public PR and power, this seems like an obvious route to get it. Yeah, maybe NK's childish dictator is really just that impossible to put in a corner, but they have to know without China getting their back, they're pretty badly fucked.

Until then, as you said, the USA has to dig its way out of what was a bad situation that Trump intentionally made worse. It might make us seem weak if we back off, but right now, I'd rather appear weak than risk a Tweet setting off a firestorm killing millions. I mean, what worldwide credibility do we have anymore that we're at risk of losing by seeming weak? Paris Accord? Threatening to leave UN/NATO? Stopping worldwide aid? Jerusalem? You're suggesting the US tries to salvage a "D" grade by studying 24 hours straight before the final, and I'm the one pointing out this class isn't even in the US's major and there a W looks better than an F.

[BrerBear]

Gallup weighs in on party affiliation since the election.

Expect that to drop some more if Moore wins.
Trump will have 90% support in a shrinking pool.

[Breccia]

Trump will have 90% support in a shrinking pool.

Seventy-eight percent at time of writing.

[Smitzelplix]

Rex Tillerson ends his EU trip having been pretty much discredited all the way across the continent.



Not even Tillerson believes this.



Tillerson also had a brief meeting with the US ambassador to the EU, who said "I don't exist". When asked by both Democrats and Republicans how the situation would be dealt with, Trump's nominee to EU ambassador replied "I don't exist, either." Nikki Haley, trying to organize a show of unification with US policy, got the ambassadors to Ireland, Finland, Austria, Belgium, Germany, Hungary, Norway, Sweden, and of course Luxembourg, to all sign a statement. The statement read "None of us exist, but to be fair, there is a nominee for Germany. Just not the rest of us."

Meanwhile, as Trump weighs in on the Saudi-Yemeni feud, the US ambassadors yeah ok the joke ran its course, no ambassadors to either country.

Here's something else to add to Tillerson's troubles. Apologies if you've already covered it before.

Star U.S. Diplomat Quits With Fiery Letter To Rex Tillerson

[Breccia]

Well, it wouldn't be a Trump rally without a bunch of blatant lies. Let's count 'em down!

1) "By the way, now that you bring it up, black homeownership just hit the highest level it has ever been in the history of our country. Congratulations."

Not even close. The record for pretty much everyone was 2004. While African-American home ownership did go up last year, it's still down about seven points from the highest level ever (49% dropping to 42%)

2) "Well, so far in 10 months we’ve passed more during this period of time than any other president in the history of our country and the second - let’s call runner up - is Harry Truman, was second."

Again, not even close. Whether you count major legislation or total legislation, Trump is not first by any realistic metric. Major, AP puts FDR and his New Deal, 14 major laws, in the first 100 days as the clear winner. Total, Trump is on a poor pace compared to recent history. At time of writing, Trump has signed 90 bills into law from the 115th Congress. That's on pace to be 203 in 2 years, and every single Congress since 1973 has passed at least 284, most of them 400+ -- even the Congresses which didn't last a full two years. Also, most of them have been one-page.

3) “He [EDITOR: Trudeau] said, ‘I’m telling you that Canada has a deficit with the United States.’ I told my people, in front of a lot of people, I said, go out and check - and he was right. Except he forgot two categories - lumber, timber and energy. Other than that, he was right. When you add them altogether we actually have a $17 billion deficit with Canada, right? So, he forgot a couple of categories that he didn’t want to mention.”

This is the closest Trump got on this list. Trudeau may have "forgot" a couple of categories, but so did Trump: services. Canada won by $12 billion in goods, but the US won by $24 billion in services. So even if he was telling the truth about Trudeau, he's still either wrong, or lying.

4) “They will lie and leak and smear because they don’t want to accept the results of an election where we won by a landslide.”

He probably should have said "electoral college". He still lost the popular vote.

5) “Since the election, we have created more than $5 trillion in new economic wealth just in the stock market alone. We’re not including real estate and other values, $5 trillion.”

The Federal Reserve does say $5 trillion. But, they do include real estate. Again, Trump is wrong or lying.

Also, the AP points out that 84% of the stock market wealth is owned by about 10% of the American people, most likely (I admit conjecture) the top 10%. Since that's also included, the figure -- even if it was honest, which it's not -- but even if it was, it'd be misleading to say the American people have actually seen this wealth. As has been discussed on these very forums, the stock market and the GDP are not the same thing.

6) “You know, we have factories pouring back into our country."

There is no information that backs this claim. Spending and constructions on new factories are both down, and they have been falling since 2015. Perhaps Trump should have said "factories are hiring more Americans since last year" which is true. But he didn't.

7) “By the way, wages - starting to go up. First time in 20 years - starting to go up. That’s all going to happen.”

2.5% is what Obama did last year. Trump is blatantly lying on this one.

Unless Trump meant wages were growing compared to inflation. Which didn't happen at all. So Trump would be lying either way.

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Here's something else to add to Tillerson's troubles. Apologies if you've already covered it before.

Uh, nope, looks new to me.

lizabeth Shackelford, who served as a political officer based in Nairobi for the U.S. mission to Somalia, lamented in a Nov. 7 letter obtained by Foreign Policy the “stinging disrespect” President Donald Trump’s administration had shown the diplomatic corps and how it was “driving” the department’s most experienced staff away in growing numbers.

“The cost of this is visible every day in Mission Somalia, my current post, where State’s diplomatic influence, on the country and within our own interagency, is waning,” Shackelford wrote.

She said she was “shocked” when Tillerson, who stepped down as ExxonMobil CEO to serve as Trump’s secretary of state, told department employees that advancing human rights across the globe “creates obstacles to our ability to advance our national security interests.“

If Tillerson is unable to “stem the bleeding” and preserve the department’s mission, she added, “I would humbly recommend you follow me out the door.”

[Thekri]

I understand your point. Basically, if someone throws the first punch in a bar fight, then his two friends stand up...well, you have two choices, both bad.

I still hope that other, non-US countries can bring this to a least a leveling out point, if not a reduction. Hell, I'm surprised China and NK didn't come out, hand in hand, and say "We fixed the problem and Trump did nothing at all to help. We brought back peace, because Trump is IMPOTUS." (This would be managed by China basically bribing NK to stay quiet for a few years) China's been on the move for public PR and power, this seems like an obvious route to get it. Yeah, maybe NK's childish dictator is really just that impossible to put in a corner, but they have to know without China getting their back, they're pretty badly fucked.

Until then, as you said, the USA has to dig its way out of what was a bad situation that Trump intentionally made worse. It might make us seem weak if we back off, but right now, I'd rather appear weak than risk a Tweet setting off a firestorm killing millions. I mean, what worldwide credibility do we have anymore that we're at risk of losing by seeming weak? Paris Accord? Threatening to leave UN/NATO? Stopping worldwide aid? Jerusalem? You're suggesting the US tries to salvage a "D" grade by studying 24 hours straight before the final, and I'm the one pointing out this class isn't even in the US's major and there a W looks better than an F.

I disagree with a bit of this. Trump's handling of this is abysmal, to be sure. But NK is a problem that we need to deal with eventually, ideally peacefully, but war is an option if it comes to it. I am very much against backing down at this point, I don't honestly think Kim has nuclear capability against the US yet, and we need to stop him from ever getting it. We also need to make sure Tokyo and Seoul don't get wrecked either of course.

At the end of the day, I am against letting people call our bluff, if you are going to talk tough for a year, you can't pansy out when they call your bluff. Obama did exactly that in Syria, and the GOP justifiably crucified him for it. Now the Trump administration is doing 10 times worse with Korea. If we don't dramatically change their course in our favor, our credibility is shit. Shit credibility for a superpower is going to lead to millions of lives wasted at some point in the future when somebody doesn't believe we really mean it.

[Paranoid Android]

Trump International Golf Club is a spectacular golf course.

Great day of fun playing with @POTUS @realDonaldTrump. https://t.co/92Xjk8d8B2

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/...88068823715842

A U.S. Senator endorsing a private business owned by POTUS, who profits from said business.

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/...88068823715842

A U.S. Senator endorsing a private business owned by POTUS, who profits from said business.

Cool, so Graham is shilling Trump properties now, too.

Don't get me wrong, he's got plenty of Southern charm, but I still don't know why any progressives like him in the slightest. Sure, he occasionally says reasonable shit, but 90% of the time he's saying stupid shit like this and voting in lock-step with the Trump administration.

Like most of the Republicans that have been critical of Trump, they're all talk and no show.

[Breccia]

Hey, remember how Secretary of Energy Rick Perry said all, like, six of our remaining coal plants should totally need regulations forcing them to buy a 90 day surplus, despite regulations being bad?

Yeah...don't hold your breath. The FERC chairman until last week suggested that this isn't really all that pressing of an issue. In particular, two of the five members that vote on this sort of thing have only recently taken their position, since Trump is historically slow on appointing people.

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For added fun, we better get working on NK in a hurry. Apparently, they can control the weather now.

Also, Trump has something else to be jealous about: Kim is "a master golfer who shot 11 holes-in-one in his very first game".

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Hey remember the transgender military ban?

A judge just blocked it. More specifically, Trump tried to delay the Jan. 1 date, claiming it wasn't enough time to prep the military for the extra medical needs transgenders required.

The judge sided with the plaintiffs, who said that, not only did Trump tweet back in July, they had sworn testimony that Obama's admin had set up pretty much all the work back in January. Obama was the one who set the Jan. 1 date, 18 months beforehand.

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While this piece is an OP ED, the joint authors -- the CEO of the National Audobon Society and Rep. Sanford (R-SC) -- do cite evidence that's worth noting. It pairs nicely with the Treasury's one-page joke of a report, in that the GOP is being called out for making shit up.

As a part of the contemplated tax bill, the Senate Energy Committee has been instructed to find $1 billion in revenue as a part of tax overhaul. Some would see it code for “let’s drill here,” but regardless of your perspective, the Senate’s version of the tax bill claims there’s a billion dollars to be had by drilling in one of the jewels of America’s wilderness refuge system.

Many Republicans who will support this tax plan don’t actually want to “drill, baby, drill.” But conservative principles ought to at least demand that the math adds up. An independent analysis done in partnership with the National Audubon Society shows that opening up the Refuge to drilling will raise less than $100 million of the promised $1 billion.

Consider that fact, just for a minute. For the cost of what it takes to put together one season of a TV series like “House of Cards,” Congress is endorsing breaking an agreement that has held through Democratic and Republican Congresses and presidencies over the last 60 years.

Here’s why the math doesn’t add up:

1) The government actually needs to raise twice as much as we’ve been told: Federal law directs 50 percent of oil revenues from drilling in Alaska to the state because Alaska doesn’t have an income tax or a sales tax. So, right off the bat, we know that the actual revenue needed is $2 billion.

2) The state would have to sell out every single acre to raise that amount: To reach that goal, all 1.5 million acres on the coastal plain within the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge would need to be leased. Maybe you can expect to sell 100 percent of iPhoneX’s made in the first month, but the most successful sale in Alaska’s history over the past 17 years was the sale of 42 percent of available leases in 2016.

3) And, even if you could sell out (literally and figuratively) every one of those acres, you’d have to get a fantasy price, somewhere around $1300 an acre. Between 1999 and 2016, leases in the neighboring National Petroleum Reserve (NPR) generated an average of just $50 an acre. If that’s the going price, which is a high estimate, that means these new Arctic leases would generate $75 million in revenue even if they sold out. And here’s a breaking news proof point — just this week, the lease sales in the NPR drew just seven bids for just $15 per acre. Concerns from the Congressional Budget Office about meeting the $1 billion target led Senate leaders to add provisions to sell oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve – a clear admission that drilling in the Arctic Refuge doesn’t begin to fulfill the sales pitches.

4) This isn’t even oil that will make America energy independent. There’s a reason why you haven’t heard the voices of big oil companies in this debate. The cost of drilling in the Arctic, given how cheap oil is from America’s vast shale and offshore reserves, simply makes this uneconomical to companies that would profit most from it.

5) And even if they extract it, it’s likely to be exported.

So, let’s take that step back: we’re proposing ending 60 years of Republican and Democratic protection in one of the most prolific wildlife nurseries on the planet to make 5 percent -10 percent of the revenue that we’re promising the American people — all so we can export it to Asia? It’s math that doesn't add up. But it’s not too late to turn back - especially when it doesn’t pay to go forward.

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You've all seen by now, Trump signed an E.O. -- well, "directive" really -- ordering NASA to return to the moon.

Now, I'm all in favor of science, even science you can dare the Vice President to touch. But, well,
1) Trump ordered NASA's budget cut. It seems unlikely they'll be able to do what they've been doing, and also get to the moon, with less money. While Trump's budget never came to be, this new directive came with no money.
2) When Trump turned to the White House Science Advisor to say a few words, he replied "I don't exist". When reporters asked Trump's nominee for the OSTP post, she replied "I don't exist, either."
3) The directive says we need to go to the moon "for long-term exploration and use" which sounds questionable.
4) Until Pence said this would “enhance our national security and our capacity to provide for the common defense” which sounds even more questionable. At best, you could argue that we could send people and/or things into space on American rockets, and that would be more secure, but I'm pretty sure we could do that without returning to a lifeless ball of grey dust with no natural resources.
5) Trump also said “This is very exciting and very important for our country and it also happens to mean jobs." NASA employs under 18,000 people. Even if they doubled that -- to roughly the 1960's level, when NASA actually did put people on the moon -- and even if they did so instantly, that's about 8% of one month's growth during Obama, or about 10% of what was lost in one hurricane this year.

[wunksta]

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/...88068823715842

A U.S. Senator endorsing a private business owned by POTUS, who profits from said business.

Just the new normal.

[DarkTZeratul]

3) The directive says we need to go to the moon "for long-term exploration and use" which sounds questionable.
4) Until Pence said this would “enhance our national security and our capacity to provide for the common defense” which sounds even more questionable.

It also sounds like a blatant violation of the Outer Space Treaty, which (to quote Wikipedia) "exclusively limits the use of the Moon and other celestial bodies to peaceful purposes and expressly prohibits their use for testing weapons of any kind, conducting military maneuvers, or establishing military bases, installations, and fortifications." Trump's directive could also potentially violate the Moon Treaty, which (to quote Wikipedia again) "was created to restrict the exploitation of the Moon's resources by any single nation."