Antorus, the hardest raid ever?

[Alithia]

There are two options for me:

I only join 955+, curved first ID and 11/11 .... however, these group never ever deliver nad alays have uncurved people inside.

I open such a group myself and have to kick 5+ for linking fake achievements (Get Achievement Check and oilvl). I also kick people without any enchants and gems.

The second ID was horrible, pugs wipe on everything, and Aggramar (the real boss) has been impossible this ID.

[Better]

Portal Keeper especially. This is brutal. The damage she does becomes unbearable. People "go up" somewhere but never come down xD they die brutally up wherever they are. And we tried sending more healers up, then we died down at the boss. We invited more healers, but then lacked the DPS to have a chance AND we actually died to damage anyway.

IDK what raid size you're using, but generally at about 20~ people you can send all but a few (3-5)really good cleave DPS up, and then 1 healer for first, 2 for every other platform, and obviously whichever tank can due to debuff timings. Make sure the DPS/tank left below are kicking/silencing the imps, and dogs, IDR if that's even a thing in normal, may be worth reading the journal to check.

Edit: Just remembered this is a PuG, so it's probably important to emphasize that the DPS that DO go up wait for the tank to actually pull the add on the platform, rather than them pulling it, and getting smashed.

[Alextros]

aggramar was killed on december 7th, meaning day two.

I see a pretty big flaw here, you are counting the 8 hours on wednesday before reset and all of thursday all together. Mythic Aggramer died within 24 hours of his release on EU

[Gaaz]

Like I said, pre-mythic. I am not judging Mythic mode vs previous raids Mythic mode.

And faceroll? We might have different opinions about faceroll. I feel the opposite on how you feel, Tomb heroic was easier than Antorus normal. Just look at the first boss. The first boss of Tomb is a joke but the first of Antorus was a brutal first boss. The damage output, even in normal, was insane. I only killed it once but I fear even a rekill will cost many wipes.
Might as well ask then, can anyone prove me wrong? If the raid is that easy, can you get me into one of these amazing groups that clear this "easy" raid. Wiping this much is causing me to get depressed...

First boss brutal?... There is literally just one mechanic that can kill a raid other than "do not stand in fire" - soaking these small green circles that this boss spams faster on the second phase in heroic. Think of it as Krosus from Nighthold (you have to soak small elementals, but have many more circles to do so and then have to kill the adds extremely quickly before they blow up your raid), but without a time limit, without crushing platforms, without space limitation, without taking damage from a giant meteor (that one person has to carry as far as possible, which is rather difficult on a 10x20m last platform). Krossus was only difficult because it was a DPS check. But take away all these mechanics, and Krosus becomes almost a mannequin. Same goes for the first boss of Antorus. If you think that it is difficult, you must be trolling.

[Battlebeard]

First boss brutal?... There is literally just one mechanic that can kill a raid other than "do not stand in fire" - soaking these small green circles that this boss spams faster on the second phase in heroic. Think of it as Krosus from Nighthold (you have to soak small elementals, but have many more circles to do so and then have to kill the adds extremely quickly before they blow up your raid), but without a time limit, without crushing platforms, without space limitation, without taking damage from a giant meteor (that one person has to carry as far as possible, which is rather difficult on a 10x20m last platform). Krossus was only difficult because it was a DPS check. But take away all these mechanics, and Krosus becomes almost a mannequin. Same goes for the first boss of Antorus. If you think that it is difficult, you must be trolling.

It is easy in theory, yes. But actually doing it is another thing. We take serious damage and our melees dies like flies. That transition phase is brutal as well. We don't have nearly enough DPS to handle it smoothly.

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IDK what raid size you're using, but generally at about 20~ people you can send all but a few (3-5)really good cleave DPS up, and then 1 healer for first, 2 for every other platform, and obviously whichever tank can due to debuff timings. Make sure the DPS/tank left below are kicking/silencing the imps, and dogs, IDR if that's even a thing in normal, may be worth reading the journal to check.

Edit: Just remembered this is a PuG, so it's probably important to emphasize that the DPS that DO go up wait for the tank to actually pull the add on the platform, rather than them pulling it, and getting smashed.

We are about 15 people. Tried with 3 healers and no way. Tried with 4, even 5, still no way.

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Sounds like people just didn't know mechanics and tried to get carried in a pug. If you are telling me the first boss of Antorus was a brutal first boss then you are a troll.

I have over 1000 posts here on mmo champion, why would I suddenly start trolling? I find the boss extremely brutal for all pugs I've been in. And we only managed to kill it once, and then more than half the raid was dead.

[Spaze]

We take serious damage and our melees dies like flies. That transition phase is brutal as well. We don't have nearly enough DPS to handle it smoothly.

by transition phase you mean the phase where everyone has to run away from the boss?
and as a melee you mostly get no dmg if you do the boss the right way only if you soak the voids as only 1person? Or the tanks dont running away from boss with the debuff?

[Gaaz]

It is easy in theory, yes. But actually doing it is another thing. We take serious damage and our melees dies like flies. That transition phase is brutal as well. We don't have nearly enough DPS to handle it smoothly.

Are you sure it is not a tank problem then? If tanks move from the boss so that it can not hit them in melee, it starts hitting those it can reach. Other than that, the only way to die is not covering green circles, standing in fire (it involves someone is dumb enough to place large circles in the raid and someone even dumber to actually stand in it until it explodes) or when a tank runs into a melee group with a rocket debuff.
I would place my bets on the 3rd scenario - a tank with a debuff runs off while the other tank is too slow to taunt the boss so it starts choosing random targets in melee. But come on, really. First boss in Nighthold and ToS were much easier. I do not remember going into NH or ToS and killing first bosses in heroic on the second pull with our guild.

[Deleted]

For some reason I was expecting a Jaylock thread

[Hottage]

No it's not, not by a long shot. It was cleared on heroic in one day, and Mythic 10/11 in two days.

Besides, if you're PUGing you still have probably 8 months to clear it so no need to get excited yet.

[ingsve]

Hardest raid ever. Every f-ing time the whole damn raid dies on the last boss. I'm at my wits end.

[jtstormrage]

I think Blizzard seriously dropped the ball with this raid. This raid is far too easy.

This raid has to last 9 months, if not longer.

For top guilds to go 10/11 in 1-2 days, and at the end of the first week 9-10 guilds are 10/11, this is far too quick.

Heroic is a joke, 10/11 mythic in one day is a joke. As at today's date (12/12/17) 450 guilds have done 5/11 already, and 200 are 6/11 (in 6 days!).

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Hey, I just need to get this off my chest and maybe get some closure.

I often see people say this raid is easy, but I strongly disagree. I've been playing since Vanilla, end game almost every expansion. So far, I notice that Antorus seem to be quite overtuned. I work 12 hours a day, at various hours, so guildraiding is not an option for me. I try to PuG but this just seems utterly impossible. I consider myself a good player with many "Cutting Edge" achivements from previous Mythic raids. But this doesn't seem to help much in PuG raids.

I have pugged basically all raids since WotLK on my alts or sometimes even my main, so I am quite familiar to the PuG envoirment. But here, I hit a brick wall. Every group I have found struggle to kill the first two bosses on normal mode and after that, it's just game over. I see no way of a PuG doing that Portal Keeper boss, we got her to 40% in the "best" of the groups I've seen so far.

One could think I found a bad group, but I've been in like 10 different groups and neither can clear anything. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but no PuG seem to have a chance at this raid. I pugged full Tomb of Sargeras normal easily by this time when it was released and of course Nighthold as well before that. By this time last raid, I had gotten further in heroic Tomb than I've gotten in normal Antorus now.

I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm falling further and further behind by every waking minute and it will only be harder and harder to PuG it, as people will demand higher and higher requirements to get in. Openraid is dead, and I feel the game is just unplayable now. In all my years of WoW, I think this raid is by far the hardest I have ever attempted to do. (Pre-mythic that is of course). I can't even imagine what Mythic will be like.

What do you think of the new raid? Anyone agree that it's way too hard and overtuned? What can I do to get a chance at clearing it? I don't want to buy boost, I just want a group who has a chance at clearing it normal...

Please, don't comment with "Dude, it's really easy" or like "I pugged 11/11 hc first day". I already know some people consider it easy, I a looking for some comments who can actually help the situation and who can add to a discussion about raid difficulties.

Not sure what to say other than this has not been my experience. Pugs are always hit or miss, but overall I find this tier easier than ToS or NH, closer in difficulty to EN. I wouldn't worry too much about falling behind. We will be in this tier for months; there is no hurry.

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Hardest raid ever. Every f-ing time the whole damn raid dies on the last boss. I'm at my wits end.

I see what you did there.

[Radaney]

Pugs are an awful measurement for how difficult content is.

Otherwise Heroic Iskar is harder than Mythic Archimonde in HFC.

The raid is actually pretty undertuned.

[Battlebeard]

by transition phase you mean the phase where everyone has to run away from the boss?
and as a melee you mostly get no dmg if you do the boss the right way only if you soak the voids as only 1person? Or the tanks dont running away from boss with the debuff?

I may not know tactics fully, but then it seems no one does. People who get a debuff run far away from the raid. But sometimes, they don't, cause if you don't have DBM or similar addons, it's actually a fairly non obvious debuff. This seems to be something almost all groups I have seen have not managed to deal with.

[Ozyorkbourne]

SNIP.

Im going to do what you said not to, because it's redicullously easy and very undertuned on heroic, normal and even mythic. Not only is this not the 'hardest raid ever'. it's not even remotely close. Even compared to ToS, there are so few personal mechanics for you to wipe too, but if you can't kill normal portal keeper then your PuGs are trash and you need to join a minimum ilvl group where the leader kicks failures who don't go in to the portals.

I won't be part of your circle-jerk. You need to either get better PuGs or join a semi-casual guild and raid with them as and when you can with your 12 hour work days. There are plenty of guilds that could probably accommodate you as either a weekend raider or who raid when they have people for 2-3 hours here and there. Not ever guild is a set regiment of 3-4 hours/day 7 days a week, especially since normal/heroic and not mythic seem to be your preference. Lots of weekend or no-schedule guilds.

[Deleted]

Nah, not even the hardest one within this expansion.
We've done it with alts this weekend.

Nevertheless i wouldn't expect to easily clear it with a group of relinquished geared characters who are played sub-optimally atop of that (most probably also ignoring mechanics).
In due time, when people learn their classes and get some gear it will also fall over for you.

[Zeidia]

It's not hard at all, coven can be fucked up if you PuG it, argus it's easy af but people can't stop fucking it up cause they don't understand the only phase that matters your dps is killing adds on p3 and p4 in general. but the rest is easy af. There is no hard mechanics, no life or death decisions on any boss in the whole raid but again, coven and argus maybe, and in argus if you wear prydaz it's just a faceroll.

I've done argus this week again after doing it the first week, so 2 argus kills on 2 weeks in a PuG , i wasn't able to do that with HC KJ for sure.

[Ozyorkbourne]

I think Blizzard seriously dropped the ball with this raid. This raid is far too easy.

This raid has to last 9 months, if not longer.

For top guilds to go 10/11 in 1-2 days, and at the end of the first week 9-10 guilds are 10/11, this is far too quick.

Heroic is a joke, 10/11 mythic in one day is a joke. As at today's date (12/12/17) 450 guilds have done 5/11 already, and 200 are 6/11 (in 6 days!).

I'm 8/11 mythic, could have been 9/11, but I think it's more or less fine. After ToS, I think i'll be happy to go down to 1-2 raids/week and split raiding to sell mounts as soon as possible. ToS killed so many guilds with burn out that I think it was entirely intentional to make the first 9 like wet paper, Aggramar a challenge and Argus a wall. After KJ, thank fuck. One of the biggest things about getting 10/11 first week seems to be if you have the alts/roster to class stack as well, a bit like Fallen Avatar with 5 rogues but here it's Coven with 7-8 affli-locks/S.priests/boomkins.

[Gibsonz]

HC Shattered Halls with T3 and BC greens and blues > Antorus 10/11

[Deleted]

I also work a lot, and in shifts, so i cannot raid with guilds as my time schedule is random. I alway pug, I have pugged all normal raids this expansion, and i found ToS to be way more pug ufriendly, as you could wipe the raid if you messed up, even on normal. These mechanics are way more tuned down in antorus, making it more pug firendly in my oppinion.