After Dominating 3 Straight Expansions, is Method the best raiding guild in history?

[Richardbro]

They have done what no other guild has, including Paragon Ensidia, Nihilum, etc. Which is continue to be world first for 3 straight expansions.

Their body of work:

Mists of Pandaria

World 1st Will of the Emperor
World 1st Sha of Fear
World 1st Lei Shen
World 1st Garrosh
World 2nd Empress Shekzeer

Warlords of Draenor

World 1st Blackhand
World 1st Archimonde
World 2nd Imperator Margok

Legion

World 1st Helya
World 1st Kil'jaeden
World 1st Argus
World 2nd Xavius
World 3rd Gul'dan

Thoughts?

[mmocfd1b0ab5a3]

yes, also remember world first Ashes of Alar drop, Vashj 2nd, Sunwell 2nd, wotlk naxx, sarth and maly 2nd, Algalon 2nd, T11 second, T12 second...

[Richardbro]

yes, also remember Vashj 2nd, Sunwell 2nd, wotlk naxx, sarth and maly 2nd, Algalon 2nd, T11 second, T12 second...

Indeed, I was mentioning the last 3 expansions specifically for their world first dominance, but they have always been dominant.

[Onikaroshi]

Super Hardcore Raiding is just a dying thing, there is no competition anymore, it's just them and Exorsus. I mean... how prestigious is being the worlds best Fluba player if only two people IN the world play the Fluba.

[Deleted]

Still think Paragon was far more impressive, came out of nothing beat top guild, Method only started beating Paragon when Paragon went 10 man.

Not to mention that Garrosh 10HC kill was still one of the most memorable wow kills.

[Richardbro]

Super Hardcore Raiding is just a dying thing, there is no competition anymore, it's just them and Exorsus. I mean... how prestigious is being the worlds best Fluba player if only two people IN the world play the Fluba.

If anything, there is more competition now than in Vanilla, TBC and maybe even WoTLK.

In Vanilla, raiding wasn't widespread and known enough, since the game was new and everyone focused on levelling mostly.

In TBC, almost the same thing, hardcore raiding was not competitive yet, just regular raiding.

In WotLK, Paragon and Ensidia were some of the only guilds that competed as well.

There were 20 guilds on Argus before Method downed it, so your argument makes no sense. Hardcore raiding is probably more prevalent than ever before.

[Onikaroshi]

If anything, there is more competition now than in Vanilla, TBC and maybe even WoTLK.

In Vanilla, raiding wasn't widespread and known enough, since the game was new and everyone focused on levelling mostly.

In TBC, almost the same thing, hardcore raiding was not competitive yet, just regular raiding.

In WotLK, Paragon and Ensidia were some of the only guilds that competed as well.

There were 20 guilds on Argus before Method downed it, so your argument makes no sense. Hardcore raiding is probably more prevalent than ever before.

The number of guilds ON argus meant squat, there were only ever 2 guilds that had a chance of winning it. If anything there's only ever been at most 2-3 guilds capable of WF at a time, so it's always been the worlds best fluba player

[Garnier Fructis]

The number of guilds ON argus meant squat, there were only ever 2 guilds that had a chance of winning it. If anything there's only ever been at most 2-3 guilds capable of WF at a time, so it's always been the worlds best fluba player

That fluba analogy only worked if the total number was like, 2-3. But here you're saying that it's not impressive to be top out of ~20, because 18 of the 20 are much worse than the others?

It really seems like you're saying that being that far ahead of the pack is not impressive.

[Lucetia]

There were 20 guilds on Argus before Method downed it, so your argument makes no sense. Hardcore raiding is probably more prevalent than ever before.

Amount of guilds on a boss is not the same as competition. If anything that might just show that it's easier than in the past. I don't keep up with World Firsts or anything, but it's my impression there are less than 5 or so actually trying for it.

Also 20 guilds out of how many actually working on the tier? That's still less than 0.1% probably.

That fluba analogy only worked if the total number was like, 2-3. But here you're saying that it's not impressive to be top out of ~20, because 18 of the 20 are much worse than the others?

It really seems like you're saying that being that far ahead of the pack is not impressive.

Some might call it impressive, I for one don't find it impressive at all. A lot of times it's who can put in more hours and hit the wall more times.

It's like taking a pug into a raid with no clue how to do it. You do it enough times and you'll eventually kill the boss. Does it make it impressive?

[Fonduset]

Kungen says hello

[Richardbro]

Still think Paragon was far more impressive, came out of nothing beat top guild, Method only started beating Paragon when Paragon went 10 man.

Not to mention that Garrosh 10HC kill was still one of the most memorable wow kills.

I would put Paragon as the 2nd best ever. Method beat Paragon in both BRF and HFC, when Paragon retained a lot of its old members (considering they got world first Imperator, they were very hardcore and impressive).

[Protean]

The number of guilds ON argus meant squat, there were only ever 2 guilds that had a chance of winning it. If anything there's only ever been at most 2-3 guilds capable of WF at a time, so it's always been the worlds best fluba player

Your argument isn't making any sense. If I could swing a magic wand today and remove Method and the other guild from existence, you'd still be saying the same thing about the runnerups tomorrow.


It's like saying the other people at the Olympics aren't impressive or even competing, just because the winners took the medals.

[ONCHEhap]

Paragon is world first in my heart

I liked how they were more perfect than Method.They kills were far cleaner and they didn't use addons to carry them nearly as much as Method does.


I'm not throwing shade at Method,they're great,I just liked Paragon better

[Socialhealer]

nope method couldn't beat paragon until paragon went 10 and never fully recovered as a 25man i mean shit world 2nd is great but i feel like they lost a step, if method beat the original paragon that shock won and dominated LK 25 hc then dominated the whole of cata bar lol DS (worst raid in history LFR aids all EU guilds banned asian world first bullshit)

method has lost some races this xpac, but paragon was untouchable without bans, that makes them #1 for me.

the dream world first race would be current method VS cata/LK paragon vs vanilla/TBC nihilum.

[Zeta333]

If anything, there is more competition now than in Vanilla, TBC and maybe even WoTLK.

In Vanilla, raiding wasn't widespread and known enough, since the game was new and everyone focused on levelling mostly.

In TBC, almost the same thing, hardcore raiding was not competitive yet, just regular raiding.

In WotLK, Paragon and Ensidia were some of the only guilds that competed as well.

There were 20 guilds on Argus before Method downed it, so your argument makes no sense. Hardcore raiding is probably more prevalent than ever before.

your on crack if you think there is more compeitition, the population is 2/3rds less now than it was then, most servers had 2-4 competeing top server guilds vs one if any now. The amount of guilds pushing the limit was also there. this games community is dying.

[Propainn]

I think the only other arguments that could be made would be:

Paragon:

T9-T13

-World 1st Anub'arak
-World 1st Lich King
-World 1st Sinestra
-World 1st Nefarian
-World 1st Ragnaros
-World 1st Will of the Emperor (10)
-World 1st Sha of the Emperor (10)
-World 1st Lei Shen (10)
-World 2nd Grand Empress Shek'zeer (10)
-World 2nd Ra-den (10)
-World 2nd Yogg'saron +0
-World 2nd Al'akir
-World 2nd Cho'gall

T17-18

-World 1st Imperator Mar'gok
-World 2nd Blackhand
-World 2nd Archimonde


Nihilum/Ensidia:

T2.5-T8

-World 1st C'thun
-World 1st Kel'thuzad
-World 1st Gruul
-World 1st Magtheridon
-World 1st Lady Vashj
-World 1st Kael'thas
-World 1st Archimonde
-World 1st Illidan Stormrage
-World 1st Kel'thuzad (WotLK)
-World 1st Sartharion
-World 1st Malygos
-World 1st Algalon the Observer
-World 3rd Kil'jaeden (SWP)
-World 3rd The Lich King

If Paragon had never dropped down to 10 player raids in MoP, they would be more or less inarguably on par with Method (at the least) in terms of the dynasty they've built. This created a whole bunch of "what if" scenarios, and "10 vs. 25" threads. I'm not touching any of that.

However, I think I would have to give the "Most Dominant Ever" award to crew in Nihilum/Endsidia, not only for their ridiculous World First count, but also for how well they streaked, and the environment in which they did it. There were a lot more horses in the race back then, and a lot more talent when considering the size of the pool to draw from. Nihilum perennially held the top spot. Sweeping 9/9 BT World Firsts was likely their pinnacle. In fact, no other guild besides themselves as Ensidia in Naxx (WotLK) has ever swept every World First in a raid with more than 2 bosses (Paragon managed both in TotFW). Ever.

Nihilium was also the first true World First powerhouse, and set the blueprint for everyone else that followed. Method is simply the 2nd passing of the torch. Nihilium took it first, passed it to Paragon near the finale of WotLK, who passed it to Method at the end of MoP.

[Onikaroshi]

Your argument isn't making any sense. If I could swing a magic wand today and remove Method and the other guild from existence, you'd still be saying the same thing about the runnerups tomorrow.


It's like saying the other people at the Olympics aren't impressive or even competing, just because the winners took the medals.

Eventually if you kept skimming off the top you'd run into a situation where 10 guilds have equal chance, probably wouldn't even take long. But as it stands now its a two horse race, Method and Exorsus, for WF no other guild matters, no other guild even had a chance.

[RoKPaNda]

Kungen says hello

And what about him? His only experience in a modern raid setting is playing what is currently the easiest role with some really good players behind him. In modern WoW he's pretty average.

[Nnyco]

paragon was more impressive imo, too bad they quit

[Kaesebrezen]

Dominating usually involves someone being dominated.