Doctor Accused Of Spiking Pregnant Girlfriend’s Tea With Abortion Pill

[Celista]

That's not what you said originally. No, you called out for ALL men to go through the process. But for some strange, mysterious reason you only called out MEN. How odd...

Because God forbid a fucking woman take responsibility for anything, too. Especially those worried about all those evil men who are going to poison them if they do get pregnant accidentally. You know, since it's the majority of the population, clearly, thus warranting half the world to get their balls cut off for your safety.

Yes my post was a hard mandate and you should feel offended by my suggestion. Women should take responsibility as well as men, but the reality is that men don't often take responsibility for birth control decisions on their end. You can have 100% control over who gets your sperm if you want to, but you feel butthurt that a woman dare suggest that if you don't want a child, that you take steps to protect yourself? Ok.

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I think it is good to focus on men's rights. Men should have equal opportunity to gain custody, and I know that is often not the case.

I think it is good too. There is a lot of room for discussion in regards to the rights of men and unborn children.

[Darkeon]

Yeah there's a lot of focus in these threads about mens' rights which I think are wholly relevant, particularly when a child is wanted, but at the same time I don't think most men who are wholly concerned about unwanted pregnancy take all of the steps they can to avoid the consequences that they claim they are so wholly abhorrent to them in the first place.

Personal responsibility is important.

I reckon someone posted a very similar message as an Anti-Abortion argument xD

[Darkeon]

And it wouldn't be valid because abortion is a measure that can be taken to prevent having a kid. For a woman.

I'm not sure why that's so fucking hard for you to understand that it's an option for women because IT'S THEIR BODY. It's not an option for men because IT'S NOT THEIR BODY.

Oh I get it just right~

Just as I get that the man should have the possibility to bail out on the consequences, just like a woman performing abortion~ IT'S HIS WALLET. huehue.

[Azadina]

I think it is good to focus on men's rights. Men should have equal opportunity to gain custody, and I know that is often not the case.

I agree, the courts should enforce it better. However, let's not even entertain the idea, that the ones whining for being allowed to skip payments, whenever they go around and impregnate women, and aren't then allowed to order the woman to abort, have any wishes on gaining custody.

[Celista]

I reckon someone posted a very similar message as an Anti-Abortion argument xD

My opinion about abortion is that the arguments supporting it are mostly pretty weak. The Roe v Wade legal decision was very weak. But the reality is that we have fewer adverse outcomes as a society by allowing abortion than when when it was illegal. Unwanted children are expensive and there is no culture around adoption in the US, people mostly want their own children and those who do adopt often look abroad instead of the many available children via our foster care system. Women were also dying on a routine basis from back alley abortions. It makes more sense to allow abortions than to prohibit them.

[Darkeon]

My opinion about abortion is that the arguments supporting it are mostly pretty weak. The Roe v Wade legal decision was very weak. But the reality is that we have fewer adverse outcomes as a society by allowing abortion than when when it was illegal. Unwanted children are expensive and there is no culture around adoption in the US, people mostly want their own children and those who do adopt often look abroad instead of the many available children via our foster care system. Women were also dying on a routine basis from back alley abortions. It makes more sense to allow abortions than to prohibit them.

Don't they know that if they use surgery they wouldn't get unwanted pregnancies? Or does that line of thinking only works when pointed at men, Celista?

[Machismo]

Again, there is an additional action, the decision being made to become a parent, no matter how hard you try, making a decision to let something happen is still an action.

Again im arguing that people who want choose for something to happen are responsible for that something, nothing more nothing less. If he wants responsibility for it he can get it just like a woman, if he doesn't want to then he should not have to, just like a woman.

There may be an additional action, but if no other action is taken... then there is no additional action. Are you saying people should be responsible for the actions they do not take? If so, then any woman who has a child can hold the man personally responsible for not poisoning her, and causing her to have a miscarriage.

In the end, the man willingly chose to have sex, knowing the consequences of his action. Therefore, he should be held responsible.

[Celista]

Don't they know that if they use surgery they wouldn't get unwanted pregnancies? Or does that line of thinking only works when pointed at men, Celista?

Sure, but the reality is that most men and women do end up wanting children and a man can have 100% control via a vasectomy as to when that should happen, it is one surgery and it lasts a lifetime. Sperm banking lasts decades. There are lots of benefits there. It is an outpatient procedure and relatively cheap.

The benefits for women aren't as great. In comparison, tubal ligation + its reversal are at least two surgeries and reversal is not guaranteed if you snip/cut away. It is far more of an invasive procedure and is more expensive. If you can't reverse the tubal ligation, then you'll need a birth mother, which is very expensive, and will need to undergo a procedure for egg retrieval and implantation into the birth mother.

In sum: much easier for men to get pregnant with a partner via a vasectomy than for a woman to get a tubal ligation and have it reversed.

[Darkeon]

The surgery a woman would have is far more invasive, dangerous and expensive than that a man would have to have. So again you seem to be ignoring reality and the practicality of things.

"It's a choice. It doesn't stop being one just because it's one you don't like." - I think this has been uttered in this thread at some point... Funny how it all aligns so perfectly!

[Machismo]

I agree, the courts should enforce it better. However, let's not even entertain the idea, that the ones whining for being allowed to skip payments, whenever they go around and impregnate women, and aren't then allowed to order the woman to abort, have any wishes on gaining custody.

I agree, this is all about trying to avoid responsibility for one's actions and/or have authority over someone else's body.

Fuck that.

[Darkeon]

Sure, but the reality is that most men and women do end up wanting children and a man can have 100% control via a vasectomy as to when that should happen, it is one surgery and it lasts a lifetime. Sperm banking lasts decades. There are lots of benefits there. It is an outpatient procedure and relatively cheap.

The benefits for women aren't as great. In comparison, tubal ligation + its reversal are at least two surgeries and reversal is not guaranteed if you snip/cut away. It is far more of an invasive procedure and is more expensive. If you can't reverse the tubal ligation, then you'll need a birth mother, which is very expensive, and will need to undergo a procedure for egg retrieval and implantation into the birth mother.

In sum: much easier for men to get pregnant with a partner via a vasectomy than for a woman to get a tubal ligation and have it reversed.

Still an option *shrugs* why aren't people taking advantage of their options? Isn't that what has been said an awfully lot towards the (few and silly) options men have in this matter?

[Darkeon]

Killing themselves would be a choice too but obviously that's extremely unpractical. You're obviously incapable of comprehending and argument of practicality.

Oh, it has all been said in this thread :P

Just funny that when one mirrors the arguments that people make towards men, but instead aimed at women, it's suddenly completely unacceptable!

[Machismo]

Oh, it has all been said in this thread :P

Just funny that when one mirrors the arguments that people make towards men, but instead aimed at women, it's suddenly completely unacceptable!

Why is it so strange to demand that people take responsibility for their actions?

[Azadina]

Why do you continue to beat this horse to death that every option is equally viable? Because they aren't.

Pretty sure he just doesn't care that the options aren't equal, only because the womens option is worse, and not his.

[Darkeon]

Why is it so strange to demand that people take responsibility for their actions?

Said every anti-abortion advocate ever.

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How you really this fucking dense? It's not a mirror because the options aren't equal in reality. You're arguing that there's some sort of contradiction while making a false equivalency. You're ignoring a vast amount of factors. I already pointed that out when you mentioned surgery being an option for women just like men. Which doesn't make sense regardless of the practicality. If a man has the surgery, he's not going to have kids regardless of the woman's choice. Sure, it's a choice for the woman as well but she's not the one wanting to prevent having kids. Sooo.. ? What exactly is your point?

Then she shouldn't have sex? *shrugs* Stupid innit? Was actually one of the listed options for men :P

[Darkeon]

Having an abortion is taking responsibility. You ignored this earlier by saying "no that's just an action" which doesn't even fucking make sense as a counter argument.

Assuming there is no life threatening situation involved, having an abortion is dodging the responsibility of having the child and\or handling the financial burden of having one.
This is actually a common argument against abortion by those against it. This is so glorious that it couldn't be made up.

[Darkeon]

No. It's not. It's taking responsibility for getting pregnant rather than having a kid you can't afford simply because of illogical moral reasons. You think that an argument against abortion is that it's dodging responsibility? Because it's not. That's nonsense.

As you eloquently put it earlier:
[Citation Needed]
huehue

[Machismo]

Said every anti-abortion advocate ever.

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Then she shouldn't have sex? *shrugs* Stupid innit? Was actually one of the listed options for men :P

Then argue to ban abortion.

[Deleted]

No. It's not. That's fucking retarded.

Willfully choosing to have a child alone is child abuse.

There are plenty of people out there actually getting abused by BOTH their parents that are together.

And we have laws against that too.

There are plenty of single mothers out there raising their kids better than most other couples that are together.

Gonna go with a categorically no here - Single motherhood produces broken children.

This is just such a stupid fucking notion that I'm not going to continue this conversation after this post. You're wrong. It's not even subjective. You are objectively 100% absolutely fucking wrong.

Is this something you believe?
Because you are wrong, just categorically wrong - The science and the data is very clear, single mother children are vastly overepresented in the relevant categories of social behavior. Antisocial behavior, criminality, poverty, teenage pregnancy, suicide rate - Like literally everything.

For one, "mandatory adoption"? You're already contradicting yourself at this point. In the reality we live, because clearly you don't, there a vast amount of children in foster homes that are not being adopted.

Again i said this policy was directed towards newborns, and there are waiting lists for adopting those.

Your argument mentioned biology, so I assume you mean it's best to have 1 male and 1 female and not just a stable environment.

No the biology comment was in regards to how children react to being raised by single mothers, for instance there are hormonal differences in a teenage girl raised by a single mother, and raised by a nuclear family.

You obviously have zero fucking clue about how rough a foster home life can be. I'm just fucking amazed if you actually believe this stupid shit.

in any case, after instituting the policy i imagine the number of single mother's to be drops to very insignificant numbers.

Your supporting argument is that "we make rape victims pay child support"? That has nothing to do with this and not something I support either.

No, that's the argument against giving a shit what the mother thinks, because we have thoroughly established we don't give a shit what the father thinks, regardless of circumstance, so we are just extrapolating from there.

[KevyB]

Good, another worthless existence averted - this is better for everyone in the end, even if some refuse to accept that.