Argus Healer trinket ... lackluster/garbage?

[Kluian05]

I was reviewing some logs of top druid healers with the argus healer trinket equiped and I have to say I'm a little disappointed. The trinket on its own seems like a decent throughput trinket ... INT stat stick with a proc that does around 2-3% healing. Nothing amazing at lower ilvls, but perhaps it will shine once get one to ilvl 1000.

The big disappointment is the 4 trinket empowered effect. I saw a druid with around 13-15% uptime on the empowered proc and it was doing a measly 0.5% effective healing. For such restrictive requirements to get this thing going I was a bit taken aback. Once your raid is decked out in trinkets the max proc uptime you'll see is around 30%. So we may see only 1% increased healing from it.

I know most druids are using Velens/Darkmoon card or Carafe as their goto trinkets considering the fights are long and we have mana issues. But as the raid gets more geared and fights shorter, a druid would switch to this Argus trinket for throughput to be paired with Velens. I just hope blizzard see's how weak this raid proc is and buffs it. At the very least it seems the shield it provides should be nearly doubled from the ~300k it does now. Otherwise only true benefit I see a druid to equip this thing is to help the raid DPS out to proc their empowered buffs.

Thoughts?

[Myztikrice]

Are you looking at the full raid group? It needs a separate proc from each of the other 3 pantheon trinkets, and only the first 4 get the combined buff. You need a lot of ilvl, a lot of raid members of different roles equipped with the trinket, and Velens wildcards. A lot of guilds have little to zero of all three. Now there's the case to be made that none of this shit matters and this whole pantheon thing is stupid because average guilds can clear 9+ Mythic bosses without any of it, but that's a different argument

[Kluian05]

Are you looking at the full raid group? It needs a separate proc from each of the other 3 pantheon trinkets, and only the first 4 get the combined buff. You need a lot of ilvl, a lot of raid members of different roles equipped with the trinket, and Velens wildcards. A lot of guilds have little to zero of all three. Now there's the case to be made that none of this shit matters and this whole pantheon thing is stupid because average guilds can clear 9+ Mythic bosses without any of it, but that's a different argument

That's kind of my point. You need to jump through all these hoops (ie raid acquire a lot of trinkets) and for people to actually use them. Then once you do the proc is next to nothing for healing output. It just seems rather silly.

The empowered proc should not be worse than then self trinket proc IMO.

[Alvito]

That's kind of my point. You need to jump through all these hoops (ie raid acquire a lot of trinkets) and for people to actually use them. Then once you do the proc is next to nothing for healing output. It just seems rather silly.

The empowered proc should not be worse than then self trinket proc IMO.

It is good if you use it. This early on people are either not used to taking advantage of it or aren't tracking it. We are just over 2 weeks into an item that gets better week to week, if it was mind blowingly amazing right now it would be absurd as the weeks went on.

[Kluian05]

It is good if you use it. This early on people are either not used to taking advantage of it or aren't tracking it. We are just over 2 weeks into an item that gets better week to week, if it was mind blowingly amazing right now it would be absurd as the weeks went on.

What do you mean its good if you use it? I just explained that I reviewed some logs. The actually druid using it on fights saw only ~2% healing output from the self trinket proc and 0.5% healing from the empowered proc. They had enough trinkets in raid to get the empowered proc going, and he saw uptime of 15% of that empowered proc.

[Alvito]

What do you mean its good if you use it? I just explained that I reviewed some logs. The actually druid using it on fights saw only ~2% healing output from the self trinket proc and 0.5% healing from the empowered proc. They had enough trinkets in raid to get the empowered proc going, and he saw uptime of 15% of that empowered proc.

A tool is only good if you use it well. If they aren't hitting rejuvs on the right people to take advantage of the shield then it isn't going to heal for much. The up time of the buff means nothing. How the buff is used and when is the important part. This is also the shittiest the trinket is going to be, if you are extremely lucky you have a 950 version right now if you got an extra +5 already this week. It is only going to continue to improve in strength and frequency of use.

[Tiberria]

The issue with the trinket is the basic proc from it is pretty much trash. It only accounts for 2-3% of total healing done. It's not going to get all that much better as you upgrade it further, because as the weeks go on, the rest of your gear, and the access to higher ilvl trinkets will just continue to grow. For the trinket to reach the point where it is a competent option, you need to have a lot of people in your raid wearing them to gain significant value from the secondary proc. The jury is still out on how much other specs and classes will even want to use the thing, and that will tell the story of whether it's a worthy option or not.

The other real problem with it is, at least in my opinion, Druid throughput feels far too mana limited without wearing a regen trinket (if you're getting Wisdom or something you might not feel this way). That makes Carafe all but a lock for one trinket slot. Are we really going to want to drop Velen's for a different legendary to use the Pantheon trinket? That's a pretty dubious proposition, given that Velen's is being used in about 9 out of 10 top RDruid healing parses in Argus right now (and the #1 legendary on 9/11 fights), with the second legendary slot pretty split between Prydaz and shoulders, with a few using the helm. Even if you wanted to use a throughput trinket instead of a regen trinket, the Garothi trinket is probably better than Eonar. I suspect it's likely that we just don't have the trinket slot to put it in.

[kooz]

I'm personally not too happy with this trinket, proc is around 2.5% on average in my case, it's 945 though, idk if it scales well. Right now I prefer to use velens and promises, and I plan to replace promises with carafe when I get a chance. Also it's worth mentioning that int is playing lesser role compared to secondary stats, for example, in germination setup the mastery weight you can watch in the new version of rdsw addon could go as high as 180% of int, even if your mastery is at around 20%, which is normally healthy.

[gobio]

Its not a thing really. When your top dps (the bitchy types) start getting the iLVL 1000 one, it would not be a matter of your opinion or healing % to not using it o.O

[Deleted]

I'm personally not too happy with this trinket, proc is around 2.5% on average in my case, it's 945 though, idk if it scales well. Right now I prefer to use velens and promises, and I plan to replace promises with carafe when I get a chance. Also it's worth mentioning that int is playing lesser role compared to secondary stats, for example, in germination setup the mastery weight you can watch in the new version of rdsw addon could go as high as 180% of int, even if your mastery is at around 20%, which is normally healthy.

okay but you are talking about around 1200-1300 secondary vs ~3400 int that just becomes more and more. you still get more output from int in this case so the proc does not need to be as good as the trinkets with secondary stats.

OT: I agree though, I still expected it to be better. but it's good enough to use if you are helping your raid too

[Kluian05]

I will say a monk in my guild who uses it that does very competitive effective healing is seeing 4-5% healing output from the self proc. This is kind of what I would have hoped for a good healing trinket effect tied to having the primary INT stat attached. I'm not sure exactly why he's seeing twice as much on the proc as a druid. From reviewing his logs though his crit on the hot heal was very high (50%+). So at the very least the trinket benefits from crit. I'm not sure about haste and vers. For druids mastery would not improve its benefit.

[Deleted]

It depends a lot on the fight itself, how much stacking occurs.
For me it accounts for 3-4% in fights like Kin'garoth while Varimathras it goes up to 6%.

[Heregellas]

As you said, at the moment the only purpose of this trinket, for us, is to add another Pantheon trinket to the proc list for your DPS.
If you just want a throughput trinket (without considering mana though), until this one is upgraded with a better ilevel, take a stat stick or anything else close to it (like the int one + haste proc from Garothi).

[Leafcast]

Does anyone know of a weakaura to check for the proc of this trinket?