Stigmas…

[Wellzy]

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Every forum I visit, I see the same rhetoric over and over again.
The frustrating part is, I am sure most of it is regurgitated from people who read it themselves and never actually played the class or spec they are talking about.

Tanking:

One of the most fun I have had tanking was on my Prot Paladin.

Tanking on a Prot Paladin is incredibly effective. Undead dungeons especially. I leveled as a tank in Vanilla all the way up and including UBRS. Holding agro was easy, my mitigation was great and holding multiple mobs was a breeze.

The only hard part about tanking as a Paly was the mana. I did have to med every 2-4 pulls. Which was sometimes hard in an impatient pug.

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Bear tanks are along the same line. They are extremely fun and make for amazing tanks. They are a little easier than Paladins only because of the taunt.

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People dog on these two classes because of “Raid” viability. However, when it comes to 5 mans and 10 mans (really 90% of the group content) These two tank classes are on par if not better than a Warrior.

(ps. You can Raid tank as a bear, the gear is much tougher than a Warrior, but our main tank was a Bear and he wrecked.)

Druids:

The Druid stigmas make me laugh so hard inside. Remembering how much face I melted as my Balance and Feral speced druid.
Balance Druids have crazy DPS and can easily leave a lock or mage in the dust.

The issue with a balance druid, like the Paly tank, is again - mana. I had to med every few pulls, which made impatient groups a little tougher.
However, I often led the meters on my balance druid.

Do not believe these stigmas. Besides a couple of minor challenges, these specs are incredibly powerful, useful and a hell of a lot of fun to play. Raids are only a small part of the game, although I disagree these specs are not “raid viable” their 5 and 10 man usefulness is fantastic.


But.. whatever. More gear for me!

[Mushkins]

Yes, there was a negative stigma attached to some of the specs back in vanilla. But people's attitude has changed and now it's not uncommon to see boomkins, shadow prists, ferals, elem/enh shamans in raid setups on private servers.

[epLe]

I so wish people could understand that the (1.12) pirate servers are nowhere close to Vanilla.

Not having a taunt is a deal-breaker when it comes to tanking raids.

Having severe mana-issues, impacts threat generation, and hence is another deal-breaker.
This is also the case for druids, they dont have the damage and threat output to allow dps to nuke as much as a warrior tank would let them.

Then start to add Crushing blows, crit immunities, Blocking (which is huge) and warriors tank toolset.

There is no good reason why someone would pick a non-warrior for tanking raids in a real Vanilla environment.

[Wellzy]

I so wish people could understand that the (1.12) pirate servers are nowhere close to Vanilla.

Not having a taunt is a deal-breaker when it comes to tanking raids.

Having severe mana-issues, impacts threat generation, and hence is another deal-breaker.
This is also the case for druids, they dont have the damage and threat output to allow dps to nuke as much as a warrior tank would let them.

Then start to add Crushing blows, crit immunities, Blocking (which is huge) and warriors tank toolset.

There is no good reason why someone would pick a non-warrior for tanking raids in a real Vanilla environment.

This is exactly my point, though.

Everyone is so focused on "Raid viability" Raid this, raid that.

Tanking in Vanilla is not just about MT'ing your guild raid. You can be a very successful Main Tank in 5 mans and 10 mans. A very successful off tank in raids.
People who didn't play vanilla are getting this idea in their head that they can't enjoy or play the game non warrior tank or a non cookie cutter spec.


This is so far from the truth. The most fun I have had in vanilla (I am not talking about private servers, mind you) was playing these stigma specs/classes.

They are fun, effective and very useful to guilds and groups.

[Wellzy]

I so wish people could understand that the (1.12) pirate servers are nowhere close to Vanilla.

Not having a taunt is a deal-breaker when it comes to tanking raids.

Having severe mana-issues, impacts threat generation, and hence is another deal-breaker.
This is also the case for druids, they dont have the damage and threat output to allow dps to nuke as much as a warrior tank would let them.

Then start to add Crushing blows, crit immunities, Blocking (which is huge) and warriors tank toolset.

There is no good reason why someone would pick a non-warrior for tanking raids in a real Vanilla environment.

Everyone is so focused on "Raid viability" Raid this, raid that.

Tanking in Vanilla is not just about MT'ing your guild raid. You can be a very successful Main Tank in 5 mans and 10 mans. A very successful off tank in raids.
People who didn't play vanilla are getting this idea in their head that they can't enjoy or play the game as non warrior tank or a non cookie cutter spec.


This is so far from the truth. The most fun I have had in vanilla (I am not talking about private servers, mind you) was playing these stigma specs/classes.

They are fun, effective and very useful to guilds and groups.

[Specialka]

Cool story bro, but raiding is/was the hardest thing to do back in Vanilla. This is why there are viable specs and non viable specs. Even a holy priest can quest as a heal, just take forever. A palaprot can tank a 5 or 10 man without issue, but because he won't get one shot by a crushing blow as he would be in raid.

[Paulosio]

I do remember how much more difficulty my guild had trying to do Onyxia with a bear tank rather than a warrior tank though.. I think it was the fear. A warrior could deal with the fear. A bear could not and if you didn't have fear ward then it could cause problems (and it did for my admittedly not very good guild of the time).

[Deleted]

I never played Vanilla and am currently on a break, I intend to come back for Classic though, I am really hyped for it and if I don't like it then cest la vie.

Can I ask how druid healers perform? that is my preferred class

[Specialka]

I never played Vanilla and am currently on a break, I intend to come back for Classic though, I am really hyped for it and if I don't like it then cest la vie.

Can I ask how druid healers perform? that is my preferred class

If we are talking about Vanilla patch 1.0, you will be on Innervate duty, as you run oom really fast and a priest heals far better than you. Enjoy.

[Nomads]

I so wish people could understand that the (1.12) pirate servers are nowhere close to Vanilla.

Not having a taunt is a deal-breaker when it comes to tanking raids.

Having severe mana-issues, impacts threat generation, and hence is another deal-breaker.
This is also the case for druids, they dont have the damage and threat output to allow dps to nuke as much as a warrior tank would let them.

Then start to add Crushing blows, crit immunities, Blocking (which is huge) and warriors tank toolset.

There is no good reason why someone would pick a non-warrior for tanking raids in a real Vanilla environment.

Did you even bother to read his whole post? He very clearly said he's not talking about raids. If you take more time to listen to people, you'll look like less of an asshole.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, there was a negative stigma attached to some of the specs back in vanilla. But people's attitude has changed and now it's not uncommon to see boomkins, shadow prists, ferals, elem/enh shamans in raid setups on private servers.

Yep. Very true. People will see.

[barrsftw]

I so wish people could understand that the (1.12) pirate servers are nowhere close to Vanilla.

Not having a taunt is a deal-breaker when it comes to tanking raids.

Having severe mana-issues, impacts threat generation, and hence is another deal-breaker.
This is also the case for druids, they dont have the damage and threat output to allow dps to nuke as much as a warrior tank would let them.

Then start to add Crushing blows, crit immunities, Blocking (which is huge) and warriors tank toolset.

There is no good reason why someone would pick a non-warrior for tanking raids in a real Vanilla environment.

Because your friend is a Druid. Because you are a druid. Because it's more fun (iyo). There's 3 GOOD reasons right there someone might bring a druid tank over a warrior.

[Staysafe]

Everything you just said is true on 1.12 servers, which are definitely Vanilla. 1.12 is the last patch of Vanilla WoW, not TBC pre-patch (?) which is maybe that's what you're thinking of.

[hulkgor]

If we are talking about Vanilla patch 1.0, you will be on Innervate duty, as you run oom really fast and a priest heals far better than you. Enjoy.

Two things.

1) There was no 1.0 patch. It started on 1.1 (http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patches/1.x) :P

2) Restoration druids were pretty decent. As long as you made proper use of downranked spells, you'd do fine. That being said, priests were probably in a better spot, and if you were a dwarf, you'd be in high demand due to fear ward. On the good side, you'll get your tier bonus\raid gear a lot faster than those priests

[anon5123]

Paladin and Druid tanks are vastly inferior to Warrior tanks, in a raid setting. That's why they're "dogged on".

It's not a stigma if it's a fact.

Paladin runs out of mana and has no taunt, also less overall defenses than warrior.

Druid can't get defense cap and has less threat than warrior.

Also, neither of them have cooldowns that Warrior does. Druid's only cooldown is a shitty self-heal that drains your rage, and Paladin's only cooldown (usable while tanking) drains all your mana and makes you useless.

They can work as offtanks for non-boss mobs, but tanking raid bosses, no.

Everyone is so focused on "Raid viability" Raid this, raid that.

Because raids are the endgame. Nobody gives a shit about 5mans, they're easy faceroll content compared to raids.

Nobody will turn down paladin or druid tanks for 5mans, so I'm not sure why you're whining and crying about this.

Balance Druids have crazy DPS and can easily leave a lock or mage in the dust.
However, I often led the meters on my balance druid.

If you were outdpsing mage/warlock by this large of a margin, then your mages/warlocks were absolute trash.

Balance only does good DPS if it is allowed to use two debuff slots for moonfire/locust swarm. And even then, you run OOM in under 2 minutes unless you use innervate on yourself instead of a healer.

So yes, if you reduce raid DPS by taking up debuff slots for yourself, and reduce raid HPS by using innervate on yourself, you can do decent damage. But more than mage/warlock? Lolno.

But.. whatever. More gear for me!

Good luck getting the raid leader to give you spell damage gear over all the mages/warlocks. :^)

[hulkgor]

Paladin and Druid tanks are vastly inferior to Warrior tanks, in a raid setting. That's why they're "dogged on".

It's not a stigma if it's a fact.

Yea, but a lot of people don't even raid on vanilla, and just wanna tank some dungeons or whatnot, and people make it seem like anything that isn't a warrior is worthless as a tank, which isn't true.

Paladins and Druids are perfectly able to tank most content, easily. Even some easier\on farm raids.

Raid progress? Warriors are the better choice, yes.

[anon5123]

"a lot of people don't even raid on vanilla"

[Citation Needed]

[Vineri]

Druids make for good tanks on lower end 60's content. As for healers, ahh very mana intensive and well no mass ressurect ability.

Sorry I'd rather have a holy priest.

Paladins, more or less the same, but they look sexier in shining armor.

[potis]

"There is more to WoW than raids".

When will you people stop this posting, i cant even comprehend how boring some peoples lives must be that they can keep doing pointless content for a long period of time.

Or apparently, barely ever playing and never having the time to do anything is more correct?

There was no Stigma, it was the truth, stop going with the delusions of Private servers.

Even if 1.12 made some classes less shit, a Warrior tank is simply better.

Bear was only useful on fights were threat didnt matter and he had to soak something, aka Patchwerk 3rd hit tank out of the 4 tanks.

Paladin was useless even at the start of TBC too, only useful to gather Murlocs on Morogrim, which a Holy Paladin could do with Righteous Fury for the Dudu/Warrior to grab them after.

[Nomads]

"There is more to WoW than raids".

When will you people stop this posting, i cant even comprehend how boring some peoples lives must be that they can keep doing pointless content for a long period of time.

Or apparently, barely ever playing and never having the time to do anything is more correct?

There was no Stigma, it was the truth, stop going with the delusions of Private servers.

Even if 1.12 made some classes less shit, a Warrior tank is simply better.

Bear was only useful on fights were threat didnt matter and he had to soak something, aka Patchwerk 3rd hit tank out of the 4 tanks.

Paladin was useless even at the start of TBC too, only useful to gather Murlocs on Morogrim, which a Holy Paladin could do with Righteous Fury for the Dudu/Warrior to grab them after.

Lol this is one of those mid-tier wanna-be tryhards I was talking about. Let him wallow in his delusions.

[potis]

Lol this is one of those mid-tier wanna-be tryhards I was talking about. Let him wallow in his delusions.

Mid-tier tryhard, adorable.

I did more in the original vanilla that you will ever do in this adorable fiasco Blizzard calls Classic to makes money of you childs

You have no idea what a pile of shit Vanilla was, and i do hope they release it without 1.12 so i can enjoy the tears in a couple of years of how nothing works and no one is inviting the sub-par shit classes.

Because apparently, Vanilla is the last 2 months with 1.12, adorable and oh, its 2 months cause thats how much 1.12 lasted, by the end of October and 2.0.1 announced, no one gave a fuck and they simply waited for that 1 month of free rank 14 loot.

Go at your corner and innervate the priest and cast your healing touch rank 4 while the Warrior tanks, make sure to decurse also before you go OOM so you can be 10% useful to your raid.

And dont forget the buffing addon for your Paladin, my might is running out.

And you know what the best part is? Its not even gonna be players like myself, or the "retailers" as you call them.

Its gonna be your adorable private-server movement that started all of this thing that will cast the useless classes out.