Why can't the father choose not to pay the child support if he wants abortion?

[cuafpr]

Never actually went in for the consultation did you?

There's a process involved and nothing you stated here is correct...at all.

actually he could be right. i did call a few doc's when i was in my late 20's all told me the same no kids no go until i was 35. i'm 37 now and trying to confirm my insurance will cover it and what not since i've moved companies and states since then.

OT: yes there should be away imo. or to strictly monitor how the money is spent by the mother at a min.

[vindicatorx]

Never actually went in for the consultation did you?

There's a process involved and nothing you stated here is correct...at all.

I don't know every states process. In Indiana a doctor will not do it if you aren't 35 or have at least 2 kids. I'm sure there are random doctor's out there that will do it but the major health care group claims they don't feel comfortable doing it otherwise. Now legally you can do whatever you want. I have had 2 friends who went through the whole process from initial interview to balls snipped and it was the same for both.

[Elim Garak]

You don't get to decide what she does with it once you freely give it to her unless you have a legal contract in place beforehand.

Are you for real? What about consent? Does it apply only to men? That's like sexual assault.

Only gay men understand this simple question?

Only gay men need never ask it.

[Mistame]

While I do agree that there should be some protections for malicious, etc, cases (women "stealing" semen, etc), if you willingly shoot a load into a woman, you deserve to pay for being a fucking idiot. Get a vasectomy. Or at the very least, wrap it, pull out and then flush it.

No one has that right, why should only fathers have it?

Adoption.

And there have been stories of women going after the donors and doing just that....

Yes, there have been cases where it was not done by an IV/Ferility clinic. In fact, there's even cases of the state forcing the biological father to pay without the mother even going after him (two lesbians turkey-basted a pregnancy from a gay friend and even had a contract drawn up). And while I think the state should protect guys in that scenario, until the laws are more "equal", don't volunteer to be a sperm donor unless you plan on using a legally-binding clinic. You're responsible for protecting yourself.

Vasectomy is seriously one of your fucking arguments?

Yes, as it should be. In fact, a smart man would freeze his sperm and get a vasectomy at 18. Doing so gives him all of the power in regards to reproduction.

And so does he since he had sex with a woman who wanted kids.

The way you say this seems a bit... off. Just because a woman wants to have kids doesn't entitle her to get pregnant against a man's wishes. This is the same kind of bullshit logic that leads to women basting their own babies and then sticking men with 18-22 years of involuntary debt.

[Deleted]

Are you for real? What about consent? Does it apply only to men? That's like sexual assault.

Only gay men need never ask it.

Neither do straight guys who aren't dense

[ChampionChains]

No it isn’t. Whether the mother spends the money on a pedicure or not is irrelevant. At the end of the day she’s the one paying for day care, diapers, formula, clothes, shelter, food, etc.

The child support goes to that regardless of whether the actual specific bills go towards something else. What all ou greasy nerds forget is most of the dads bitching about child support are the ones who haven’t paid for 2 months.

You were mature enough to have sex, be mature enough to provide financial support for your child. This goes both ways. Now if the moms buying drugs, you’ve got another issue.

The best part is the guys arguing hardest are the ones we all know women would never let within a mile of their vaginas anyway. These dudes nutting into gym socks while sniffing a pair of their moms panties they snagged from the dirty laundry and crying about child support on the internet.

[WoWGoneBad]

uh, what? I think you mean "all of human existence".

Well yes, I do mean that, but the loss of common sense has been far more observant over the last 30 or so years. Ahhh fuck it who am I kidding. You are right lol

[vindicatorx]

That condom could have been faulty to begin with, regardless of her actions, and your sperm could have already been on it's way to baby town.

lol yeah it's faulty when she is taking the contents and shoving it in a turkey baster then basting her womb with it. We get it you had a faulty condom once that doesn't mean every woman out there who shoves semen in a used rubber in her vagina had a faulty condom

[Total Crica]

What about consent?

You consented to freely give her your sperm. Without a legal contract, she can do what she wants with it after that.

You men really need to stop being stupid about your sperm and get the courts on your side.

Women can literally clone you because you just shower them with your sperm all the time!

[MasterOfNone]

If a man could be impregnated by a woman, he would have the same choice.

A woman doesn't have the choice for abortion or birth unless a man gives her those choices by risking impregnating her.

thats immaterial. thats like saying if a cow had wings it would be a unicorn. we arent talking about hypothetical. we are talking about reality. go back and read again. not every sex session is about impregnation.

[Captain N]

actually he could be right. i did call a few doc's when i was in my late 20's all told me the same no kids no go until i was 35. i'm 37 now and trying to confirm my insurance will cover it and what not since i've moved companies and states since then.

OT: yes there should be away imo. or to strictly monitor how the money is spent by the mother at a min.

They'll ask for you to reconsider your position due to your age in most cases due to how many in their 20s end up changing their mind, but will do the procedure if you are adamant that you do not want to have children. Sounds like you had some doctors that felt you may have regretted the procedure had they done it in your late 20s and that's a possibility too. They can refuse it if they don't think you're responsible enough or may regret the decision down the road.

If insurance covers birth control the chances are good that it will also cover the vasectomy.

I don't know every states process. In Indiana a doctor will not do it if you aren't 35 or have at least 2 kids. I'm sure there are random doctor's out there that will do it but the major health care group claims they don't feel comfortable doing it otherwise. Now legally you can do whatever you want. I have had 2 friends who went through the whole process from initial interview to balls snipped and it was the same for both.

You're going to have to provide some sort of evidence about that Indiana thing. Everything in the Chicagoland and Northwestern Indiana region shows 18 as the age to legally have one done and already having children is not mentioned once. Now like I addressed above a doctor can suggest against the procedure if they feel you may regret the decision later in life -- but there are no age or child requirements as you suggest.

This is why many doctors are reluctant to perform the procedure on younger males:

Studies have shown that men who have vasectomies at a very young age are more likely to regret it and/or have a reversal later in their life. Here are some points to consider:

One study found that men who have vasectomies in their twenties are 12.5 times as likely to have a reversal than older men
90% of vasectomy reversals occur because the man meets somebody who wants to have children

Vasectomy reversals are not always successful

The longer a man waits after his vasectomy to have a reversal, the lower the chances of pregnancy
Vasectomy reversals are expensive and are not usually covered by insurance

https://vasectomy-information.com/va...-requirements/

[Bodakane]

That doesn't mean he's subjected to pay for 18 years. If the woman has a "get out of jail free card" then so should the guy.

When the burden is equal, then the power should be equal.

[Total Crica]

Adoption.

Adoption isn't a right. You can't force people to adopt your offspring.

Stop freely giving women your sperm if you don't want to pay for your offspring.

[Machismo]

Where abortion is a right, having a kid is a choice that belongs to the women, so....

Men also have sex, right?

[Fencers]

All three of your points could be resolved if the woman 'forces' the man to wear a condom or herself takes a form of birth control. you heard the phrase before "NO glove NO love"

Pregnancy prevention can fail. When the result is pregnancy both parties are still complicit in the act leading to pregnancy. The only exception is rape- which is illegal in the US.

Then there is another factor at play. What if the woman deliberately decided to get pregnant against a mans wishes.

Such is the risk one takes when having sex. There is no way to legislate biology on this level without erasing human rights.

In these scenarios should the man be 'forced'to pay child support when he was not wanting the child to begin with?

Yes, the father still decided to have sex despite the many inherent risks/consequences of vaginal intercourse. This is partly why sex education is taught in many schools.

What about if the woman claims she is on Birth Control but is lying... if she gets pregnant should the man be 'forced' to pay child support?

As above. Sex has many consequences and risks; from disease, injury to pregnancy. Nothing is 100% "safe", so to speak.

Relying on the 'good graces' of one's partner is a (risky) personal decision. I am not sure you get a refund because your trust was misplaced. Welcome to humanity.

Tell me this, when a man decides he wants to be the father should his choice be respected? Meaning the woman cannot seek abortion?

Respected, sure. Obeyed or followed- not necessarily.

The state of pregnancy is one belonging only to the female. The state of being alive and requiring basic needs to avoid death, injury disease is the not the child's decision and neither can a minor provide for these things without the responsible parties for their birth. In other cases the state assumed the responsibility- until then it is the parents'.

Your statements put this in the womans court, but what about the man in a reverse situation.

Men can not have babies. There is no 'man's court' on the matter- there is no ownership you have to another person's body. You only have a responsibility for your joint actions.

How many women had abortions without ever telling the man......

They would not necessarily have to tell their partners. They own their body.

It does indeed take 'two to tango' and BOTH should be able to have their decisions respected.

Often impossible and philosophically treacherous as respecting or adhering to the wishes of one party (male) denies the basic human rights of two (potentially) others- mother & child. One of which is not capable of having autonomy outside of the host body for some time.

She chose to have unprotected sex knowing what the end result may be.

If the woman chooses to have unprotected sex with a man- he is choosing to do so as well. Anything else is simply rape, which is illegal.

[Total Crica]

thats immaterial. thats like saying if a cow had wings it would be a unicorn. we arent talking about hypothetical. we are talking about reality. go back and read again. not every sex session is about impregnation.

It doesn't have to be about impregnation for there to be a risk of it happening.

[ChampionChains]

If insurance covers birth control the chances are good that it will also cover the vasectomy.

The vast majority of insurance providers do cover vasectomies and tubal ligation. Vastly more than cover birth control. Their reasoning is typically that the surgeries are one time payments while birth control is a monthly charge that could spread over decades. Birth control should be covered. It should be free.

- - - Updated - - -

When the burden is equal, then the power should be equal.

The burden isn't equal.

[Huulo]

Which is an equally shit point, grats.

Abortion isn't a "get out of jail free card." Everyone gets control over their own body. No one can be forced to carry a pregnancy. That has nothing to do with child support, which is designed to be fair to the child, not either parent.

[NineSpine]

Abortion isn't a "get out of jail free card." Everyone gets control over their own body. No one can be forced to carry a pregnancy. That has nothing to do with child support, which is designed to be fair to the child, not either parent.

It seems so simply, but they will continue to pretend that the right to access an abortion is about some fictional right to have or not have children.

[Frogguh]

There are three aspects to child support law foremost in my mind (I say this as a payer of child support).

One, despite what feminists claim, women are coddled like helpless children. Consent in the case of alcohol overwhelmingly benefits the woman over an equally drunk man. Men are told to keep their pants on if they don't want kids, while telling women the exact same thing is being oppressive toward them. Women are also told it's perfectly acceptable to kill their own offspring prior to birth if they "make a mistake", while men are helpless once conception occurs. Double standards always benefit women, and in child support men are screwed completely.

Two, despite my having my kids five days a week and two nights a week (all day every weekday when school is out), my home state determines child support solely based upon how much I make and how many kids I have, and then if the judge feels happy one day he might lower it based upon circumstances. I have to pay almost a third of my income to my ex-wife despite having them almost as many waking hours, while still having the exact same costs of raising them and maintaining a household that my ex-wife has. One hundred percent of my financial difficulties are due to child support that I frankly should not have to even pay, while my ex lives in a house three times the size of mine and goes on constant vacations.

Three, there are parents out there who have absolutely nothing to do with their kids, or very little. These are the ones child support laws should target. Someone like me? A parent who is heavily involved in the daily lives of their children? Shouldn't have to pay, yet we do.

In an unfair system like men experience today, my advice to them is to stay the hell away from women until women stand up for equality and fix these godawful child support laws.