Is Antorus proof of what many players argued over before its release?

[Segus1992]

Oh, you mean soccer? Football is a different sport.

You're not actually this American, right? This is a joke?

[Fincayra]

Wrong. For Mythic specifically Emerald Nightmare was cleared in 3 days.



Be honest "A lot of players" meaning the top 3 guilds. So what? 70-90 people total, that isn't a lot when the game still has around 4 million players.

The removal of "soak" and "1-shot" mechanics made the raid easier by default, but it still isn't "loleasymode". This raid tier is probably the best tuned tier as to what Mythic SHOULD BE, with a small exception for Argus which is overtuned, but Blizzard will nerf him down to size probably a couple weeks after the new year.

wasn't emerald nightmare 17 hours total?

[Elestia]

What people need to see is that mythic raiding is unnecessary.

A minority of the playerbase bothers to attempt mythic. It is far too cumbersome and inconvenient for guilds to manage.

Mythic exists for people that play the game hard, but there's no reason for it to be in the game from a world first perspective.

"World first guilds" need to come to terms with a few things:
1. There is no beating Method, unless you're Paragon
2. Once you accept that, there is NO 'World First "Race"'. Method is the only world first guild
3. Therefore playing the game hard has no purpose and is a complete waste of time given the terms in which these people play the game.

The game would be better off not having unobtainable content at all. Noone cares about mythics, noone sees mythic players online due to sharding and xmog of the gear, everyone expects method world firsts - there is no race. I say gut mythic raiding entirely and throw it to the winds. It's not needed, it's not wanted and noone cares about it.

Edit: Not to mention having full raid teams that 'volunteer' to practice content in advance on the ptr. "On the fly" strategies and "cutting edge raiding" are terms that apply far more equally to normal raiders that don't bother to research anything on fights than to the mythic tryhards that milk everything they can. Wanna know the secret to fast clear times? Pre-designed strats and abuse of the PTR and the feeding / selling of information to method.

[Deleted]

What people need to see is that mythic raiding is unnecessary.

A minority of the playerbase bothers to attempt mythic. It is far too cumbersome and inconvenient for guilds to manage.

Mythic exists for people that play the game hard, but there's no reason for it to be in the game from a world first perspective.

"World first guilds" need to come to terms with a few things:
1. There is no beating Method, unless you're Paragon
2. Once you accept that, there is NO 'World First "Race"'. Method is the only world first guild
3. Therefore playing the game hard has no purpose and is a complete waste of time given the terms in which these people play the game.

The game would be better off not having unobtainable content at all. Noone cares about mythics, noone sees mythic players online due to sharding and xmog of the gear, everyone expects method world firsts - there is no race. I say gut mythic raiding entirely and throw it to the winds. It's not needed, it's not wanted and noone cares about it.

Edit: Not to mention having full raid teams that 'volunteer' to practice content in advance on the ptr. "On the fly" strategies and "cutting edge raiding" are terms that apply far more equally to normal raiders that don't bother to research anything on fights than to the mythic tryhards that milk everything they can. Wanna know the secret to fast clear times? Pre-designed strats and abuse of the PTR and the feeding / selling of information to method.

We have received your application for stupidest post of the year. Just in time.

[c313]

Mythic+ is taking over on "difficult" content. Whereas the average player (myself included) will not clear Mythic raiding, their general goal now appears to be reducing the difficulty of raiding in general so more will actually see it. Heroic/Mythic will always be the more difficult raids, but I doubt we'll ever see any month+ long waits before the full clear of a Mythic raid.

Mythic+ is just more of a reliable source of challenging content, they can (and do) host events and use it as Esports. Whereas the few Raid events they did at Blizzcon was exciting, but pretty meh.

[FelPlague]

The fastest clear to any mythic raid to date(and heroic/hard modes prior to mythic difficulty).


Alot of players felt the game had been gutted in terms of difficulty and general playstyle.

does Antorus being so easy to clear the final nail in the coffin to make players and Blizzard see what WoW has become in the eyes of many?

You not gunna respond to me proving you wrong with evidance?
Naxramas wotlk cleared in 1 day (From when they entered the raid, people had to level so)
Sart 3 dragon 7 days
maygos 2 days
anubarak 7 days
ruby sanctum 1 day

mogushan vaults 4 days
heart of fear 6 days
terrace of endless springs 6 days

highmaul 5 days

xavius 18 hours
helya 3 days


btw argus has nearly tripple the wipes that heroic 25 LK had.
(Argus took 8 days)

- - - Updated - - -

We have received your application for stupidest post of the year. Just in time.

nah, anything dank druid is.

- - - Updated - - -

What people need to see is that mythic raiding is unnecessary.

A minority of the playerbase bothers to attempt mythic. It is far too cumbersome and inconvenient for guilds to manage.

Mythic exists for people that play the game hard, but there's no reason for it to be in the game from a world first perspective.

"World first guilds" need to come to terms with a few things:
1. There is no beating Method, unless you're Paragon
2. Once you accept that, there is NO 'World First "Race"'. Method is the only world first guild
3. Therefore playing the game hard has no purpose and is a complete waste of time given the terms in which these people play the game.

The game would be better off not having unobtainable content at all. Noone cares about mythics, noone sees mythic players online due to sharding and xmog of the gear, everyone expects method world firsts - there is no race. I say gut mythic raiding entirely and throw it to the winds. It's not needed, it's not wanted and noone cares about it.

Edit: Not to mention having full raid teams that 'volunteer' to practice content in advance on the ptr. "On the fly" strategies and "cutting edge raiding" are terms that apply far more equally to normal raiders that don't bother to research anything on fights than to the mythic tryhards that milk everything they can. Wanna know the secret to fast clear times? Pre-designed strats and abuse of the PTR and the feeding / selling of information to method.

except exorsus beat method a few times now?

[Soon-TM]

From the point of a casual scrublord such as myself atm, Antorus difficulty is just fine. EN felt undertuned from the very beginning, and Tomb of Soaks was well... 100% soaks and little more. It was not fun, just stressing: "oh, who will screw the pooch this time on Mistress/Avatar/KJ". Antorus feels like it has a more natural difficulty, so to speak. One shot mechanics are nothing but cockblocking imo, and Antorus has very little of those, fortunately.

[Sim]

Clearly Titanforging has ruined WoW PvE forever. /s

I'll call a raid easy if a top 500 guild clears Mythic within 1-2 weeks of it being released. If the top 0.0001% of the WoW population beats something I am not going to automatically ride on the coat tails of their success.

Yes having 11/11m really does give you the right to label the difficulty of something because... you know... actually did it. I am not going to believe keyboard warriors who live through top raiding guilds because they cannot do it themselves. Yes, the top guilds have said that the difficulty is skewed and some bosses were cake. But thats for the top 0.0001% population. For those who have barely gotten half way through Mythic Antorus to say its Easy? If it is so easy why weren't you among the top guilds to have cleared it yet?

[Thage]

These posts are like; hey, Bayern München beat Barcelona 7-0, I guess that means my local amateur football team of friends can beat Barcelona 7-0 as well.

This. I'm always amused at these posts, like... yeah, the best players in the world are crushing this, but most Mythic guilds are going to struggle for a while yet. Calling a raid easy off of the accomplishments of the top 50-70 players on the planet is like saying it must be easy to beat the Dallas Cowboys with your beer-league neighborhood football team because the Pats can do it.

[Nefarious Tea]

soccer and football are interchangeable in some parts of world, they both refer to ballsport where you kick on the ball, while others use rugby instead of footaball to describe sprot with the weird shaped throwing ball.

Rugby is rugby. Only in North America is soccer called soccer - everywhere else in the world calls it football, because that's what it is.

American(-style) football is the weird one.

[Valrysha]

Terrible post.
The Raid is probably the best in Legion, fun mechanics, no cancer trash and generally just a lot of fun to play.

Mythic is much better, from what I've heard, and people are enjoying that too. Whilst the BEST players in the world cleared it quickly, it'll last a long decent time for most guilds.

[Victos]

Emerald Nightmare called, they want their title back.

ToV want's it's Silver medal back also.

[zlygork]

Personally, I have yet to clear mythic Antorus and probably so do you. Why should either of us care about how easy it is to the top players in the world?

[Deleted]

Wasn't Wrath's Naxxramas / Eye of Eternity / Obsidian Sanctum cleared within 48 hours of the expansion's release?

They were not released with the expansion.

[Tharkkun]

To be fair, the idea that if one do mistake = wipe exist since ever, i didn't raid Antoros yet (no idea if i'll, account frozen for now) but if there is no mistake = wipe i'll be surprised

Nope. There were always bosses where 20 or 25 people were required to do a mechanic but it's generally 1 mechanic in a 5 mechanic boss fight. In most cases if that player did the mechanic wrong they died and not the entire raid.

In TOS Mythic, especially Kiljaeden it required all 20 people to execute multiple mechanics throughout a 10 minute fight perfectly. Many of the mechanics and positioning were 100% random so people were stacking, spreading and splitting non-stop while also being required to push top DPS due to an enrage timer. It is by far one of the most cancerous instances to date.

There's still raid wiping mechanics in Antorus but they hold individuals accountable instead of 20 people at once every time.

- - - Updated - - -

They were not released with the expansion.

That's funny. https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ontent-cleared!

Killed 64 hours after the expansion was released.

[Goobaman]

The fastest clear to any mythic raid to date(and heroic/hard modes prior to mythic difficulty).


Alot of players felt the game had been gutted in terms of difficulty and general playstyle.

does Antorus being so easy to clear the final nail in the coffin to make players and Blizzard see what WoW has become in the eyes of many?

Hi Jay, sharing accounts now?

It's always good to remember that facts are important, much more important than your feelings.

That may run counter to your upbringing, but Antorus is providing challenge for plenty of players. Mythic raiding in 2017 is not subject to the many limitations that previous tiers were, like limited attempts etc.

If Blizz has one colossal fuck up, it's in underestimating the complexity of the artifact system.

Before, devs could guesstimate a range of ilevel. They knew exactly how many talents each player would have, they knew exactly what spells and abilities players would have access to and therefore can balance an encounter much cleaner.

In Legion, every class has a dozen legendaries, almost all of which have a significant impact in a player's performance, but wouldn't ya know it, are completely random in quality AND quantity. They went ahead and added for themselves ANOTHER balancing lever in the form of AP and the traits your weapon can have. Titanforging completely fucks the idea of an "estimated AND CONSISTENT" power curve from the players, which is another balancing lever that bosses need to measure up to.

A 25N raid with zero legendaries is going to be much different in terms of challenge than one where each raider has their main 2 legendaries. Feel free to normalize other gear slots so the average ilevel is the same. The leggos make a MASSIVE difference, balancing has to take that into account, but the right answer is not to tell the ~ilevel 900 group (they have two leggos but also have a blue belt and hands, not epics) that they should run Heroic bc they have leggos. wat.

They went a bit ham on all of these supporting systems, and i don't completely understand why, but they all have an impact.

GL on Mythic Argus. Surely it'll be cake for you since it's so faceroll.

[Paulosio]

Antorus is the easiest raid I've been in many years. It reminisces of the old wotlk and cata raids that were faceroll.

Cleared mythic yet ?

[ryjkur]

Yes you do.

You can't sit there and say the raid is easy when you haven't cleared the raid. That would be like my saying Bloodborne/Souls series is easy without playing it.

The OP and others in this thread are judging the difficulty of the raid based on the top guild clearing it. When they likely haven't even cleared NM of it yet.

Yes you can, see how easy it is. You have to consider there would be like 60-90 guilds already killed Argus if they were bothered. Making easy raid makes guilds not wanna burn content too fast, especially when its the last tier of an expansion.

Low kill rates of Argus proves that guilds dont want to burn it too fast.

[Bronan]

Cleared mythic yet ?

Nope, because I cba. I'm half way out the door right now because I find myself with nothing to do other than raiding, and I'm not paying a sub to play 6 hours/week. I'll definitely be back next expansion, though.

[The Stormbringer]

Antorus is pretty fun. It took my guild and I five hours to do a full Normal clear the other night. We're mostly noobs and scrubs, though. I myself was only pulling about a million DPS at the end.