I’m Horde and I still don’t like Sylvannas

[ello]

I like the idea of the thrall horde. Tribal bands joining up to defend against big threats. Focus on honor and nature stuff, while having some demonic/warlocky tendencies to make things less tropy/black and white.
The forsaken joining kinda didnt make any sense - they lived on the wrong continent, which didnt fit with the tribal/we just want to protect our home theme. The horde is not an empire. And they were cleary just plain evil, which neither fit into the natury theme nor the black and white one.

And 10 years later, after the wrathgate, evil elves joining and becoming good elves, being taken over by tentacle people, killing off all the original leaders and making Silvanas warchief, we now have a horde, which theme seem to be: "they yell for the horde a alot, but dont stand for anything and do whatever the plot/gameplay needs them to do."
So while I really like Silvanas as a character, she really should have her own faction, with more fitting theme. by now. Which would also make WoWs storytelling much more interesting, because we could have races joining and leaving factions and wouldnt have to torture the storyline quite as much, because nothing can ever happen to any of the two factions.

The Horde has never been exclusively tribal/nature themed. Orgrim Doomhammer set entire forests ablaze, they've used Demolishers since WC3 and allied themselves with Goblins twice. To paraphrase Blizzard the Horde is "a group of outcasts that banded together as a dysfunctional family and work to reconcile their differences and win the day". In other words, the Horde is a patchwork of different ideals and cultures that united under a common cause(rather than the rigid ideals and common culture of the Alliance), that "natural loving noble savage" you are alluding to is just another square in that quilt.

[Syegfryed]

The Horde has never been exclusively tribal/nature themed. Orgrim Doomhammer set entire forests ablaze

thats way he said thrall horde tough, but its its not like night elf stop allying with humans even when do the same as orcs.

[ello]

thats way he said thrall horde tough, but its its not like night elf stop allying with humans even when do the same as orcs.

"Thrall's Horde" is still very heavily influenced by Doomhammer. I mean Thrall himself wears his armor, uses his weapon, named the capital city after him. Orgrim was never denounced by the Horde like, say, Gul'dan and Blackhand were, instead he is revered.

[Shakari]

The problem for me is that it didn't sound very fitting with that voice. It also just felt too forced.

Must admit I agree, didn't seem right, forced and artificial, could have been done better, still think her being warchief is wrong tho not because its her but because its so out of her character.

[mizeri]

AU grommash for warchief

[Sigxy]

Must admit I agree, didn't seem right, forced and artificial, could have been done better, still think her being warchief is wrong tho not because its her but because its so out of her character.

Pretty much... it's just not fitting for that character to be Warchief and so far haven't seen anything to change that point of view. Not saying it HAS to be an Orc, I'd be fine if it would be an undead Warchief - but it has to be someone more fitting than Sylvanas.

[Syegfryed]

"Thrall's Horde" is still very heavily influenced by Doomhammer. I mean Thrall himself wears his armor, uses his weapon, named the capital city after him. Orgrim was never denounced by the Horde like, say, Gul'dan and Blackhand were, instead he is revered.

Because he is good, different from the others

Sure the thrall's horde is vey influenced by doomhammer, but from the time thrall became warchief he start to bring the horde more to the shamanistc side, thats the point.

[Hawkknight97]

Leaders I like:

Genn
Muradin
Velen
Jaina
Saurfang
Baine
Lor'themar
Liadrin

Leaders I don't like:

Sylvanas
Gallywix
Nathanos
Thalyssra

Leaders I don't care for:

Turalyon
Alleria
Anduin
Thrall
Vol'jin
Mayla
Rastakhan
Moira
Falstad

You'll probably not a true Warcraft fan then if you didn't cared for Turalyon and Alleria. But as for rest like Sylvanas, Gallywix, and Nathanos I agree.

[Kithelle]

I bet you are an ally because there is no Horde part that tells anything about her wanting to attack Stormwind. I mean what, there is even part where Sylvannas and Veressa worked together to assassinate Garrosh when he was in his tyranical position and ANDUIN sabotaged the attack and saved Garrosh. Just so that in the end at Siege of Orgrimmar, Varian in cinematic says that Alliance will end the Horde. Like lol what the fuck?

It has nothing to do with Alliance or Horde, it's from a book that she was planning to attack Stormwind.

Not hard to put two and two together, after she failed in Stormheim she seemed pretty M.I.A....what was she doing?

[alt-ithist]

Sylvanas fanboy spotted. To even compare Sylvanas' combat experience with Saurfang...it's just lol.

Hundreds possibly thousands of years of combat experience vs a few decades... yeah I’m laughing. She’s been fighting before Saurfangs great great great grand pappy was crawling in the mud huts. Btw also a big Saurfang fan, but I’m also a fan of logic.

[Syegfryed]

You'll probably not a true ALLIANCE Warcraft fan then if you didn't cared for Turalyon and Alleria. .

FTFY

I bet you are an ally because there is no Horde part that tells anything about her wanting to attack Stormwind.

The new book preview precisely said she wan to attack stormwind

- - - Updated - - -

Hundreds possibly thousands of years of combat experience vs a few decades... yeah I’m laughing. She’s been fighting before Saurfangs great great great grand pappy was crawling in the mud huts. Btw also a big Saurfang fan, but I’m also a fan of logic.

>hundred of years of doing nothing with peace or shooting arrows at random and unorganized trolls
>she's being fighting for hundread of years

[Syegfryed]

Please stop this nonsense already, it wasn't what happened - the story is intentionally told differently just to make people get agitated over it - she did what she had to - she wasn't even warchief at the time, it was an ambush the alliance and horde had the wrong info and everyone would have died if she hadn't sounded the horns, Varian could have left as well.

???

i know that, don't change the fact it was a massive loss and led to the warchief dead, claiming she lead the attack on broken shore as prestigious achievement over Saurfang its retarded.

Aren't you the one that is LOL here!

She's ancient, he's like 50 tops and pretty old for an Orc.

what this even mean?

[Deleted]

Hundreds possibly thousands of years of combat experience vs a few decades... yeah I’m laughing.

And lost almost a whole race and their crackwell to a young human DK... so yeah, age means nothing

[alt-ithist]

FTFY



The new book preview precisely said she wan to attack stormwind

- - - Updated - - -



>hundred of years of doing nothing with peace or shooting arrows at random and unorganized trolls
>she's being fighting for hundread of years

The Armani are were unorganized because the elves put them down, while it’s most likely alleria who was in command for that, safe bet to say sylvanas played her part.

And as much as I hate to belittle Saurfang, his combat experience before Azeroth was nothing but killing peace loving hippies and babies to hear them scream like piglets. Post Azeroth he took little part in the first war (can’t really say I remember him in the Warcraft games), then internment camp for 2 decades so basically doing nothing. Didn’t do anything in the second war, (thrall, doomhammer rehtgar and hellscream ran the show). So nothing much till WoW.

Saurfang is awesome by orc standards of Personality but that’s setting the bar low to begin with. He doesn’t just go charging like a berserker into every thing , he thinks ahead, use strategy and doesnt just toss his soldiers to be butchered just to make shit easier for himself (see Garrosh in northrend “game” and ashenvale “book”). Also he is one of the few orcs who is truly repentant of his actions on draenor while most other orcs only issue with it is that they were being controlled. Thrall is share some of those characteristics with Saurfang but he learned them from a human so doesn’t really have the same impact.

[corebit]

Hundreds possibly thousands of years of combat experience vs a few decades... yeah I’m laughing. She’s been fighting before Saurfangs great great great grand pappy was crawling in the mud huts. Btw also a big Saurfang fan, but I’m also a fan of logic.

Aren't you the one that is LOL here!

She's ancient, he's like 50 tops and pretty old for an Orc.

Her hundreds of years of "combat" consisted of mostly defending against troll skirmishes for most of her life, and recently against the Arthas where she lost.

Yet Saurfang with his much shorter lifespan (thanks captain obvious) already went against Draenei, the Human Kingdoms, the Aqir. He was cleaving bigger badder foes than what Sylvanas encountered most of her life.

It's about the quality of the experience that counts.

[Maljinwo]

Oh boy another Sylvanas thread.

And no, you are not alone, I'm horde and i despise her

[Zyky]

It's all about personal preference. You can not like her and some of the Belf hordes don't but a good chunk of people still do. It's alright to not like a lore character. I think Tyrande and Malfurion are whiny butts and I main a Nelf. Personally I can't judge Sylvanas till I see her next Xpac and how her story is going to run. Her past stuff was meh but no more Metzen so maybe constructive story again and not a pile of fan service BS

They just hired a legitimate writer, many assuming for the story of the game, she's highly decorated with WoW lore too writing quite a few of the books.

[Deleted]

Brother, I share your negative feelings for this sinful Queen. May she and her people find final day. Like a log crackling under fire's fingertips.

[Budong]

Hate lemmings.

[Syegfryed]

The Armani are were unorganized because the elves put them down, while it’s most likely alleria who was in command for that, safe bet to say sylvanas played her part.

The elves together with the humans put then down, Eevn if she played her part it just as soldier, killing trolls, there is no leading and there is nothing absurd in this to make her incredible.

And as much as I hate to belittle Saurfang, his combat experience before Azeroth was nothing but killing peace loving hippies and babies to hear them scream like piglets.

>ignoring the fact that Draenor was a savage and wild world, when the orcs, and Saurfang battle against ogres, grons and other big bad guys.

Post Azeroth he took little part in the first war (can’t really say I remember him in the Warcraft games),

>Second in command of Warchief blackhand, commanding the horde army like an unstoppable force towards Stormwindt, never losing a single battle until the second war

internment camp for 2 decades so basically doing nothing.

there is no prove he was in a internment camp tough.

Didn’t do anything in the second war, (thrall, doomhammer rehtgar and hellscream ran the show). So nothing much till WoW.

What? in the second war, in lore, he basically took the spot of the player in the RTS game, not losing a single battle until the last one in the lordaeron siege.

You mean third war? he was a veteran, he didn't show up in the game until the frozen throne campaign, but the lore says he was there.