Nightborne reasons are ridiculous.

[Combatbutler]

So what? She's still UNHAPPY with these people since the last time she saw them THEY BETRAYED HER and left HER to rot, and they haven't bothered to reach out to her to say anything about it.

Like.. how hard is that to grasp?

It isn't hard to grasp it merely puts her on the same level, she repaid the nightborne with what she received from them 10.000 years ago. The nighborne saved the world through selfish actions and the night elves saved the nightborne through their selfish actions.

And this is more than unhappy she hates them. Tyrande condemned every single nightborne, she doesn't care whether they live or they die.

[Yarathir]

It isn't hard to grasp it merely puts her on the same level, she repaid the nightborne with what she received from them 10.000 years ago. The nighborne saved the world through selfish actions and the night elves saved the nightborne through their selfish actions.

And this is more than unhappy she hates them.

She hates them because they left her people to DIE and then said "hey-hey-hey, we got our own Legion problem now. Wanna help out?"

Did even one Nightborne go out to her to at least share perspectives or understanding? Because from what I can see, nothing has changed from the moment they bubbled up to now, and they don't seem to think there was anything wrong in what they, or the people in charge back then did.

Usually when you leave someone to die to a cosmic superthreat, they will dislike you. You can make them like you by at least explaining your side and your intentions and understanding how it affected them. But no Nightborne did from what we have been shown.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Based on one group within that faction being nice to them. In other words: not informed.

She speaks about how the Alliance felt walled off, she obviously still looked into both factions.

You're trying to act as if Thal blindly joined the Horde.

[Deleted]

You just completely ignored the point, aka strawman.

I'm talking about someone walking up to Thrall and saying he might be an evil demon infused bastard who kills children BECAUSE a guy called Hellscream who was also an Orc did it.

Which isn't a long shot at all, considering what Garrosh did later on... Or the fact that the Horde was originally all orcs who invaded Azeroth in order to conquer it, kill everyone or enslave them. It really doesn't seem like the orcs can stop trying it either. First they destroy Draenor and almost wipe out the Draenei (not to mention all the other things they did), then they invade Azeroth where they enslave the Red Dragons, create Death Knights, burn down Stormwind and so on. Even if Durotan opposed it all, his goal was still to conquer. The only reason Thrall's Horde didn't continue that tradition was because they didn't have the manpower to do so and because Thrall was not even raised by orcs. EVEN THEN, Hellscream and the Warsong kill Cenarius and once more drink Mannoroths blood. On we go, to how Thrall throws in the towel and hands leadership to Garrosh because he thinks it's what the Horde needs, and we all know how that went.

So yes, it's reasonable to assume an orc can be mistrusted by the Alliance. Because they've done very little to prove they can be trusted when their race has a very well-known, clear history of conquest, corruption and bloodlust. Sure there are those that have opposed all these bad things, but they've never been in the majority. Hell, without the Alliance, the Horde resistance would've lost to Garrosh because so many orcs followed him.

So from the point of view of say a human, they've zero reason to trust an orc and will without hesitation judge them unfavorably with good reason.

[Yarathir]

She speaks about how the Alliance felt walled off, she obviously still looked into both factions.

You're trying to act as if Thal blindly joined the Horde.

Yes, but the Alliance being walled off is simply objectively wrong, so it's probably from the same bundle of bullshit as the idea that the Blood Elves were out saving the world (lol Liadrin) while the Night Elves were hiding away or sleeping in trees.

[Halyon]

We're talking complicit in the act of bubbling up and leaving the other Night Elves to die to the Legion. Please come back when you grasp context. Ty.


Nice headcanon you pulled straight from your anus.

How many Nightborne were complicit? Not all of them. Elisande was retardedly strong, and had a lot of loyalists. Many weren't even born, most of the loyalists got 'the fel' and we kill those. They betrayed nobody by protecting the city way back when. They didn't side with Azshara, they didn't side with the 'night' elves. Cowardice is not betrayal. And it was thousands of years ago, but as Illidan (and now Tyrande) proved, night elves bear grudges for life. Like holy shit do they carry grudges.

So why should the Nightborne rebels go to the alliance when Tyrande and her stick up her ass, being condescending about them now, over Liadrin representing the blood elves and offering support and welcome? Why should they grovel over Tyrande's grudge that includes ALL nightborne, not only those who were directly responsible for their seclusion, over Liadrin who genuinly helped them with the rebellion and safeguarding their people, offering a hand in solidarity?

Absolutely none.

There's nobody saying that the subject should be left be at all. It can be discussed. Tyrande doesn't want to discuss. She condescends and then dismisses with "Mother Moon will decide". Basically showing she doesn't give a shit. And she's the representative. Tyrande's prejudice and nursing grudges. was the issue.

[Deleted]

Based on one group within that faction being nice to them. In other words: not informed.

You mean the faction that has the people who are EXACTLY like you in it? Blood Elves and Nightborne are literally the same people, they came from the same stock so to speak. Both are the descendants of the Highborne, they just mutated differently based on their well. They share a love of magic and have a similar escape from the Legion.

[Yarathir]

How many Nightborne were complicit? Not all of them. Elisande was retardedly strong, and had a lot of loyalists. They betrayed nobody by protecting the city. They didn't side with Azshara, they didn't side with the 'night' elves. Cowardice is not betrayal. And it was thousands of years ago, but as Illidan (and now Tyrande) proved, night elves bear grudges for life.

So why should the Nightborne rebels go to the alliance when Tyrande and her stick up her ass, being condescending about them now, over Liadrin representing the blood elves and offering support and welcome? Why should they grovel over Tyrande's grudge that includes ALL nightborne, not only those who were directly responsible for their seclusion, over Liadrin who genuinly helped them with the rebellion and safeguarding their people, offering a hand in solidarity?

Absolutely none.

There's nobody saying that the subject should be left be at all. It can be discussed. Tyrande doesn't want to discuss. She condescends and then dismisses with "Mother Moon will decide". Basically showing she doesn't give a shit. And she's the representative. Tyrande's prejudice and nursing grudges. was the issue.

I didn't see the Nightborne starting a rebellion over Elisande popping up the bubble because they felt so horrible about leaving the rest of their people (Tyrande's people) to die like dogs.

I did see them starting a rebellion once Elisande's tyranny started biting them in the ass personally.

[Deleted]

How many Nightborne were complicit? Not all of them. Elisande was retardedly strong, and had a lot of loyalists. They betrayed nobody by protecting the city. They didn't side with Azshara, they didn't side with the 'night' elves. Cowardice is not betrayal. And it was thousands of years ago, but as Illidan (and now Tyrande) proved, night elves bear grudges for life.

So why should the Nightborne rebels go to the alliance when Tyrande and her stick up her ass, being condescending about them now, over Liadrin representing the blood elves and offering support and welcome? Why should they grovel over Tyrande's grudge that includes ALL nightborne, not only those who were directly responsible for their seclusion, over Liadrin who genuinly helped them with the rebellion and safeguarding their people, offering a hand in solidarity?

Absolutely none.

There's nobody saying that the subject should be left be at all. It can be discussed. Tyrande doesn't want to discuss. She condescends and then dismisses with "Mother Moon will decide". Basically showing she doesn't give a shit. And she's the representative. Tyrande's prejudice and nursing grudges. was the issue.

I know, what about the Nightborne children?

[Yarathir]

You mean the faction that has the people who are EXACTLY like you in it? Blood Elves and Nightborne are literally the same people, they came from the same stock so to speak. Both are the descendants of the Highborne, they just mutated differently based on their well. They share a love of magic and have a similar escape from the Legion.

They're a lot more closer to Night Elves.

[Deleted]

I didn't see the Nightborne starting a rebellion over Elisande popping up the bubble because they felt so horrible about leaving the rest of their people (Tyrande's people) to die like dogs.

I did see them starting a rebellion once Elisande's tyranny started biting them in the ass personally.

I just fact checked and the bubble went up AFTER the war during the sundering, to protect Suramar from the breaking of the world.

[Halyon]

I know, what about the Nightborne children?

Yeah I made an edit. Thread moves fast.

[Deleted]

They're a lot more closer to Night Elves.

In no way are they closer to Night Elves.

- - - Updated - - -

Once a shining symbol of Highborne society, Suramar never recovered from the trauma of the War of the Ancients. To survive the devastation of the Sundering, the city's inhabitants sealed themselves away from the rest of the world. Isolated for millennia, they had no allies to call upon when the Legion invaded. Now their ancient city, and all of its power, is at the mercy of demons

[Yarathir]

In no way are they closer to Night Elves.

They are literally Night Elves that went in a bubble and changed because of having their need to sustain themselves with the Nightwell. Biologically, they're closer to Night Elves than Blood Elves. By a long shot.

[Combatbutler]

She hates them because they left her people to DIE and then said "hey-hey-hey, we got our own Legion problem now. Wanna help out?"

Did even one Nightborne go out to her to at least share perspectives or understanding? Because from what I can see, nothing has changed from the moment they bubbled up to now, and they don't seem to think there was anything wrong in what they, or the people in charge back then did.

Usually when you leave someone to die to a cosmic superthreat, they will dislike you. You can make them like you by at least explaining your side and your intentions and understanding how it affected them. But no Nightborne did from what we have been shown.

And? I know that, just pointing out it is that attitude that drove them far away from the Alliance as a whole.

[Deleted]

They are literally Night Elves that went in a bubble and changed because of having their need to sustain themselves with the Nightwell. Biologically, they're closer to Night Elves than Blood Elves. By a long shot.

And the Blood Elves are LITERALLY Night Elves who were exiled and then, just like the Nightborne, were mutated by their well. They are both from the Highborn Night Elves.

[Yarathir]

And? I know that, just pointing out it is that attitude that drove them far away from the Alliance as a whole.

Okay, then they are driven off by a rightful attitude. That means they can't be expected to reach out to someone to make up for something bad they did. How is that a loss for the Alliance, exactly?

If you want to make that argument, and basically make Nightborne out to be selfish, prideful and uninterested in taking an assertive role in making amends where they screwed up, then that's fine by me.

[Deleted]

Yeah, disregard the existence of Blood Elves in the Horde. Makes for a very compelling argument.

Nightborne now were treated like Blood Elves back then. If anything the Alliance didn't learn from their mistakes.
It's all about looking down on certain practices, etc.

In any case, shit happens. Leaders say the wrong words and everything goes south.

The only thing truly wrong for me is players still bound to Alliance and Horde - we should be free.

The Alliance clearly has learned from their mistakes, since they've approached the Blood Elves twice about getting them back into the Alliance. Once during Varian and now once under Anduin. The Alliance was there to help restore the Sunwell, the Draenei specifically were INSTRUMENTAL in that restoration and the Blood Elves would still be slurping on Fel if it weren't for Velen.

So what practice does the Alliance look down on that the Nightborne will be doing, that the Horde will overlook or encourage?
Tyrande has always been sour about Mages, because she's got a stick up her butt. But that's not a sentiment any other racial leader in the Alliance shares with her, at all.

The Alliance even accepts the Void Elves for crying out loud! Talk about a bunch of dangerous people you can't trust. Why would they ever reject the Nightborne?

[Friendlyimmolation]

Yes, but the Alliance being walled off is simply objectively wrong, so it's probably from the same bundle of bullshit as the idea that the Blood Elves were out saving the world (lol Liadrin) while the Night Elves were hiding away or sleeping in trees.

Every single race in the Alliance plays second fiddle to the humans, their development couldn't be more walled off if you tried, their identity has stagnated.

[Deleted]

And? I know that, just pointing out it is that attitude that drove them far away from the Alliance as a whole.

They didn't even do that, lots of misinformation in this thread.

Once a shining symbol of Highborne society, Suramar never recovered from the trauma of the War of the Ancients. To survive the devastation of the Sundering, the city's inhabitants sealed themselves away from the rest of the world. Isolated for millennia, they had no allies to call upon when the Legion invaded. Now their ancient city, and all of its power, is at the mercy of demons

The bubble went up AFTER the war.