Battle for Azeroth PvP Changes Recap

[Nerovar]

I thought you were done talking to me?

Basically you feel entitled to rewards just for being on a PvP server. That’s your only argument for this. Entitlement.

More like getting rewarded for participating in world PvP (and winning). Playing on a PvP realm doesn't mean that you participate in world PvP. Remember timeless isle? Unique mount/pet only obtainable through PvP and the most effective way of farming it was open PvP on the timeless isle (which was amazing btw). Did you complain then? Probably not because the mount was shit (so was the pet). Your argument isn't about game design or creating meaningful incentives. It's all about you wanting nice things without actually participating in the respective content. Because that's what it is: content. World PvP is going to be simply another PvP activity by the looks of it and there's no real difference to instanced PvP except for some balancing aspects. There'll probably be enough zones like Black Rook Hold arena in which you'll find alot of players. There you'll grind a few HKs and then go on your merry way and switch back to PvE after using one of your 6 Hearthstones. There's virtually no difference between this and instanced PvP and you should really stop disguising your feelings as rationality or accuse others of feeling entitled after using that twisted logic of yours. Makes you look a tad ridiculous.

Edit: please excuse my tone. I didn't mean to sound that harsh.

[fatgunn]

More like getting rewarded for participating in world PvP (and winning). Playing on a PvP realm doesn't mean that you participate in world PvP. Remember timeless isle? Unique mount/pet only obtainable through PvP and the most effective way of farming it was open PvP on the timeless isle (which was amazing btw). Did you complain then? Probably not because the mount was shit (so was the pet). Your argument isn't about game design or creating meaningful incentives. It's all about you wanting nice things without actually participating in the respective content. Because that's what it is: content. World PvP is going to be simply another PvP activity by the looks of it and there's no real difference to instanced PvP except for some balancing aspects. There'll probably be enough zones like Black Rook Hold arena in which you'll find alot of players. There you'll grind a few HKs and then go on your merry way and switch back to PvE after using one of your 6 Hearthstones. There's virtually no difference between this and instanced PvP and you should really stop disguising your feelings as rationality or accuse others of feeling entitled after using that twisted logic of yours. Makes you look a tad ridiculous.

The way I see it is that PvP should have exclusive rewards, World PvP shouldn't. Just like raiding/deungeoning should, but world quests shouldn't.

[Nerovar]

The way I see it is that PvP should have exclusive rewards, World PvP shouldn't. Just like raiding/deungeoning should, but world quests shouldn't.

It was always this way though. World quests/dailies offered you certain rewards (usually tied to reputation) like mounts, tabards etc.
We wouldn't even need to have this discussion if Blizzard didn't fuck around so much with world PvP in Legion. Normally, world PvP occurs naturally and doesn't need incentives. When you totally butcher the game via number inflation and instead of balancing the game as a whole, introduce templates that don't work in open PvP, people will stop playing open PvP because it's simply not enjoyable. What Blizzard is doing now is simply the 'instantiation' of World PvP but it's merely a band-aid solution.
When it comes to rewards/incentives they should probably stick to the model they've had with the timeless isle. Introduce a currency that is farmable through other PvP activities but world PvP always awards the most.

[Volitar]

I plan to turn it on when I'm in a group all slamming world quests because we can bully our way into the extra rewards but will turn it off when playing solo. #efficiency.

[RaZz0r]

There will be bonuses to experience, reputation and other things when you are questing with PvP mode enabled to offset the inefficiency.
So basically if you want to do things effectively like level up and get your rep grinds done in a timely fashion to get ready for PvE content Asap you have to keep PvP on.

So for most of us who wants to do things the most effective way turning it off is not even a option.
If they want to make it a real option you should only get PvP benefits like small amounts of prestige from quests and maybe like the odd pvp token basically shit that is irrelevant for someone that just wants to PvE.

[blehmeh]

"The team has said that there isn't likely to be any substantial changes to PvP talents but do plan to make rotations more similar between PvP and PvE."

OK, that's all the hint I need to know that PvP will forever suck. That and the small talk that classes will remain mostly the same in BfA, I think I can see where this is going.

Translation: Pruned abilities will not make a comeback, gameplay will be the same dry experience it has been since WoD.

Add all the BG's and PvP server options you want, PvP will still suck without real depth to combat.

Not to mention, the problem with world PvP has nothing to do with PvP, it has to do with how broken and awful it is. You get one shot 9/10 times and just wait 5-10 minutes for the jerk to stop corpse camping you.

This team is just as disappointing and disconnected from PvP as it gets. Good luck bringing any PvP'ers back in BfA.

[nodq]

None will turn that shit on, seriously. You will just see rogues, tanks and some healers running around with pvp mode on. Maybe here and there a Mage or specc X which is currently OP. But as some guys already said, most classes/speccs will just turn it off without even trying it. Why would I be so dumb to turn it on to get ganked by multiple rogues camping at important spots, so they can get whatever it will get you for doing "pvp" in the open world.

As long as Blizzard does not change the PvP system drasticly from what the mess it is currently, this is gonna be a disaster and Ashran on release will look in retrospective like a PvP dream came true.

[Strakha]

None will turn that shit on, seriously. You will just see rogues, tanks and some healers running around with pvp mode on. Maybe here and there a Mage or specc X which is currently OP. But as some guys already said, most classes/speccs will just turn it off without even trying it. Why would I be so dumb to turn it on to get ganked by multiple rogues camping at important spots, so they can get whatever it will get you for doing "pvp" in the open world.

As long as Blizzard does not change the PvP system drasticly from what the mess it is currently, this is gonna be a disaster and Ashran on release will look in retrospective like a PvP dream came true.

and it complicates matters if they make unique rewards for world PVP because people will cheese it with friends and let them kill them to get rewards and things of that nature. so world pvp will likely have no real unique rewards and as you said will be just people ganking like it always has been, so nobody will do it.

i personally have never enjoyed world pvp, but this expansion sounds like nobody will even be doing it.

[MyndZero]

Until they remove PVP templates, let you use ALL YOUR ITEMS IN PVP (TRINKETS ETC!) PVP in WoW will forever be literal shit. Worst change they ever made, and the proof is how much it has been dying off ever since.

But typical Blizzard, they refuse to remove these things that ruin their game.

[Nerovar]

Until they remove PVP templates, let you use ALL YOUR ITEMS IN PVP (TRINKETS ETC!) PVP in WoW will forever be literal shit. Worst change they ever made, and the proof is how much it has been dying off ever since.

But typical Blizzard, they refuse to remove these things that ruin their game.

It's characteristic of Blizzard to stop making significant changes when it comes to PvP after they've destroyed the PvP playerbase (because that's not at all an indicator that something went wrong). They simply can't admit when they've made a mistake so they keep on course.

In the German language we have the wonderful proverb: "Konsequenz heißt, auch Holzwege zuende zu gehen." which basically translates to: "Consistency means sticking to your path - even if it turns out to be a blind alley."
I always though it was quite fitting when it comes to Blizzard's PvP design philosophy.

[Sforza]

Toggable pvp is just blizzard's way of telling players:"Proceed at your own risk", "We no longer give a shit about this content of the game", "You are on your own".
I'm afraid nothing will get better, everything will get worse, for the simple reason that it can be toggled off. They will have no pressure whatsoever to make things bearable in wpvp.

[Kauko]

Can't wait for PVP/PVE realm changes... Was waiting for this for years, since free faction transfers destroyed Kazzak.

[cparle87]

So, still nothing significant. Nothing about huge faction/race imbalances in PvP, nothing about 10-40 premades queing into random BGs, nothing about solo queue.

Atleast they are reworking PvP reward structure which is nice.

- - - Updated - - -



indeed, makes no sense, even on max lvl there is 60 to 40 horde - alliance PvP participation so why on earth would I opt in?

For the bonus to rep and 'other things' that he mentioned. You two obviously got as far as the experience part and stopped reading.

[Deleted]

It's funny how negative people are and how "much" they read about the topic. All this talk about "I don't want to change my server" or "it will be 60/40" is nonsense.
The system is not bound to PvP or PvE Realms and as it will phase people, who opt into it, together, it will probably be balanced numbers wise for each faction.

Here's a question: Why do people complain about 1v1 or that healers are unkillable in a 1v1 (which is not 100% true, I can burn a Hpally down even as shadow)? The game isn't balanced around 1v1s, thats why there is no arena for 1v1. Healer need to heal vs at least one person as in a 2v2 arena match they will go against at least 1 DD AND the other person who also got some cc and/or dmg.

Also all the people who say "I don't care about PvP", why be so loud about it? Just don't use the feature.

To get back to the post - I would've liked an option for the poll that goes something like "yes, but only sometimes" as I won't be bothering with PvP when im doing some WQs and watching youtube in the meantime, but when I'm in the mood for some PvP, why not?

then go ahead and do the math, PvP participation is 60:40 horde:alliance ratio, show me the math, destroy me, come on, show me how are they going to balance those numbers on every single server, distribute 60 horde and 40 alliance players so that every server/phased zone has 1:1 ratio of horde:alliance

its either 6:4 ratio horde favoured gankfest which will result in all alliance opting out during the first month, basically a disaster (Ashran 2.0 type of stuff) because those people will never turn it on again no matter what changes they make on the way (history shows us they are horrible at bandade-fixing broken stuff in the game).
The other possibility is 4:4 on some servers while some will be 2:0, basically free stuff for horde (or horde will get nothing in such situation), its bad either way.

"it will be 60/40 is nonsense, it will probably be balanced numbers wise for each faction" why? Nothing points towards your "probably". Do you have any facts to back your thinking? Im not talking about distribution of players on PvP realms, who cares about that lol. 60:40 is instanced PvP faction ratio. People who voluntarily opt into PvP today from all servers, PvP, PvE, RP, whatever.

[cparle87]

Toggable pvp is just blizzard's way of telling players:"Proceed at your own risk", "We no longer give a shit about this content of the game", "You are on your own".
I'm afraid nothing will get better, everything will get worse, for the simple reason that it can be toggled off. They will have no pressure whatsoever to make things bearable in wpvp.

Oh grow up. This whole 'Blizz doesn't care anymore' bullshit has been getting spewed around ever since the game was launched, and it's always been untrue. Don't know what I expected coming into this thread besides the usual 'blizz sucks circlejerk' you guys love so much.

[Deleted]

For the bonus to rep and 'other things' that he mentioned. You two obviously got as far as the experience part and stopped reading.

no I didnt but you obviously stopped reading my comment...whats it going to be? 5% bonus rep? It wont be huge so PvE players wont be forced to opt in. So I have a choice to grind rep some 5% faster while being ganked all day long (thus making it longer more than those 5%) or simply opt out and get the same rewards anyway.

Rewards wont be amazing, raiders would bitch about it all day long thats guaranteed. It will be some pets, mounts or other fluff. I see how many PvPers care about those things today...

[nodq]

The thing is, that what makes PvP servers PvP servers. Is thefact that you can get attacked at any time or you can attack at any time in the open world. even if you actually do not want it to happen at this particular moment. that was the point that made PvP realms and and open pvp what it was. Witht hose changes they actually will kill the real PvP servers with the minimum what was left. So now, people can disable PvP even on "PvP" servers. And the reasoning is: "some people may not like to be on a pvp server...." I mean, seriously Blizzard? Why did they transfer or created a character on that server then? WHere is the logic behind that. And because of that, those players on real PvP realms get fucked over even more.

Blizzards logic is, that this system will revive open pvp, but the it will happen the other way around, people will disable it and never turn it on again and forget about it and therfor "PvP" realms become even more inactive in terms of open world pvp. And they can add whatever they want to motivate people to turn it on. It has to be some massive buffs/items/xp to force people to do that, and then you have the problem, people are forced to do that to get stuff. Does that sound familiar to you guys? It was the massive shit storm that Ashran got when it was introduced, people complained that they had to DO IT to get items and stuff, they were actually forced to do it even tho they would have prefered not to, and not just because Ashran was terrible, no because they didn't want to do anything other than arena or BGs.

I'm tellin you guys right here, this will happen 99,9% for sure. Just like they messed up the Honor-Talent and prestige shit, shortly after Legion release they changed that all back so that you do not need to get every talent from beginning after prestiging, and why? Because NONE did it, because it did reset your talents that took quite some time. And you were gimping yourself in arena and BGs by doing so. Especially Arena. So kinda the same mistake they did with Ashran, "forcing" people to do this shit to get prestige rewards or they do not do it because they just wanna play Arena and BGs. Blizzard will pull a triple fail on this, trust me guys. They are that dumb when it comes down to PvP stuff.

[Hatorri]

Please, Blizzard, don't f...d up with the game.. none of PvE players want to envolve on a pvp world/quest/scenarios/dungeons whatever you have at yr mind. By merging Pvp/PvE you won't earn you will lose, already many ppl on my PvE raiding guild said if next exp is mostly pvp they will stop playing. I'm playing wow since 2005 non stop and always on a PvE server, the less times I tried Pvp was because I was bored to death and I get more bored.
There are two kinds of players and you cant merged to one.. those love raids/questing and not have a sugar-fed kid at his ass and the pvp gung players who feel great when they kill others.. keeped this way or else you are going to lose huge amounts of players.

Ofc this is my humble opinion and me more than sure you not gone listen.. maybe Wow era coming to an end.. hopefully, not.

[cparle87]

no I didnt but you obviously stopped reading my comment...whats it going to be? 5% bonus rep? It wont be huge so PvE players wont be forced to opt in. So I have a choice to grind rep some 5% faster while being ganked all day long (thus making it longer more than those 5%) or simply opt out and get the same rewards anyway.

Rewards wont be amazing, raiders would bitch about it all day long thats guaranteed. It will be some pets, mounts or other fluff. I see how many PvPers care about those things today...

If you don't care about pets, mounts, or pve, then maybe WoW isn't for you if the pvp minigame isn't enough to keep your interest.

[Deleted]

If you don't care about pets, mounts, or pve, then maybe WoW isn't for you if the pvp minigame isn't enough to keep your interest.

can you stay on topic? Where did I say I dont care about PvE? Or pets or mounts? I have some 600 pets, some PvP mounts from Legion as well...

But please explain to me why should I bother getting ganked 24/7 by horde in 1v4 scenarios for some battle pet or a mount? Stay on topic please. Saying "your hair is green so you should rather play CS:GO and gtfo" is just kind of your opinion that brings 0 value to dealing with issues that are going to arise.

I hope we all agree that in order to bring more people into world PvP it has to be balanced (not going to happen) or it has to give huge rewards (again, not going to happen). Do you have any good argument why will people opt into this system purely for some cosmetic rewards?