Nightborne reasons are ridiculous.

[clevin]

There's no point in discussing those lore-reasons, as we all know that Blizz made this for gameplay-reasons. Horde gets recolored Night-Elves and Alliance gets recolored Blood Elves, that's it.

This is all that needs to be said, really. There was never going to be a single new elf race that was available to only one faction. The outrage would have been EPIC.

The only two options were either to have Nightborne be neutral and go through a quest chain where your NB chooses a faction or to have two new elf allied races one for each faction. I'd have prefered the first approach personally but for some reason Blizzard didn't like that so... here we are.

[Mehrunes]

The worst part is that Thalyssra witnessed the same being done to Alleria in Silvermoon as Tyrande did to her; Tyrande scorned her in advance and Lor'themar/Rommath scorned Alleria in advance too, but Thalyssra seemingly didn't have any problem with others being subjected to the same treatment, as long as she doesn't get insulted. This scenario makes the blood elves' admittion into the Horde look like the work of a genious.

Welcome on board, latest hypocrite and senseless elf addition of the Horde. To think that we could've had forest trolls of Mag'har orcs instead of this.

Ah, yes, Tyrande comparing Thalyssra to two worst traitors in her race's history, one of whom recently tried to have her executed, after Nightfallen rebelled against Ellisande no less, is totes legit the same thing as Lor'themar introducing Alleria as the hero of Quel'thalas, letting her say her piece and merely interrupting her, only after she has shown she's Thalassian equivalent of a Jehova witness trying to make Blood Elves accept Anduin into their hearts.

And then Rommath experienced some concern that, as implied by Lor'themar's rebuttal to him was about what she has become. So chances are the point of contention was what Alleria herself was, i.e. a Void-infused character. Not what other members of their race were as in Tyrande's case. Then Lor'themar "totally like Tyrande" Theron told him to be quiet and still granted her a visit to the Sunwell (where she proved Rommath right). Dat scorn.

It's like you're not even trying. I'd say you could do better, but it's you so I know you can't.

[Chipperbane]

So they don't thank the Alliance at all for their help nor do they wish to join them all because Tyrande was cautious with them? Completely disregarding the fact that they might be able to have great bonds with other races in the Alliance, they decide to join the Horde which is full of goblins, undead, orcs and trolls. The latter hate elves.
And that's somehow a BETTER choice than Tyrande's cautionary approach to them? It's so, so ridiculous. Dignity? Yeah good look having dignity in the Horde, Azeroth's rejects.

The Nightborne then call the Alliance stagnant. STAGNANT? What's stagnant about it? Sounds to me like Tyrande is completely right in being wary of the Nightborne, who seem to imply they want to seek power at any cost once more. And they call TYRANDE too proud! Holy smokes, the irony going on here!

The Horde being Azeroth's rejects is cute when Draenei were rejected by at least two other planets beforehand. They seem to be your waifu.

[Eapoe]

2nd war was WC2, which was a lot more recent than the nightborne closing themselves off.

As my original post stated, in parenthesis, I could have been mistaken the war it occurred in, but thank you for the correction that served no real purpose.

[SeethingAzathoth]

Or the developers who made the race play horde and fill in the justification for it retroactively? I may have overheard a drunken conversation in a local bar...

From interviews in the past collector's editions and gaming news website interviews it's pretty obvious they make the decisions first and (ret)connect the lore after.

[Friendlyimmolation]

There's somebody way better that they could have allied with than the Horde or Alliance. It's one of the most powerful magical groups on Azeroth. Dalaran

You'd think that a city full of mages would be very interested in making friends with Elves who have mastered magic and magic based crafting and have an immense amount of knowledge just waiting to be tapped. Choose to be neutral and be buds with the floating city. (Heck, it's right there within spitting distance of Suramar. Neither side would risk bothering you for fear of ticking off Dalaran. (and you could freely work with and trade with both sides to your heart's content)

Right up until Dalaran joined the Alliance again,and would either kick out or try to force the Nightborne to joine them. Blood elves surely already are talking about Dalaran to the nightborne in the most degrading way possible, give it time and they will have the Kirin'tor just as much as the Sin'Dorei do.

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The worst part is that Thalyssra witnessed the same being done to Alleria in Silvermoon as Tyrande did to her; Tyrande scorned her in advance and Lor'themar/Rommath scorned Alleria in advance too, but Thalyssra seemingly didn't have any problem with others being subjected to the same treatment, as long as she doesn't get insulted. This scenario makes the blood elves' admittion into the Horde look like the work of a genious.

Welcome on board, latest hypocrite and senseless elf addition of the Horde. To think that we could've had forest trolls of Mag'har orcs instead of this.

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Definitely. It is becoming harder and harder to grasp the composition together. We could've gotten Mag'har orcs, Mok'nathal, ogres or forest trolls instead of a group of elves that go to war with someone over one "insult".

I can't believe I missed this earlier. The situations are in no way comparable, its hilarious that you would even try.

[Kithelle]

Even that doesn't really work, the nightborne were not obligated to join the resistance, they are cowards but not traitors to the night elves. The one they did betray was Azshara.

How do you not call hiding behind a shield covering their own asses while their kin was fighting a desperate battle for their live not betrayal? Then how do you call the leadership selling themselves like cheap whores the first time the Legion comes knocking at their door in 10 thousand years not betrayal?

Tyrande was right to question them, and Thalyssra's response comes off as a rather knee jerk butt hurt reaction.

[Friendlyimmolation]

How do you not call hiding behind a shield covering their own asses while their kin was fighting a desperate battle for their live not betrayal? Then how do you call the leadership selling themselves like cheap whores the first time the Legion comes knocking at their door in 10 thousand years not betrayal?

Tyrande was right to question them, and Thalyssra's response comes off as a rather knee jerk butt hurt reaction.

People still acting as if the first thing they did was hide under a shield ? They stopped the legion from opening a second front, the only reason their city wasn't destroyed in the sundering was because of their shield. Then they thought the rest of the world was gone, just like the Pandaren did on their island.

[Mehrunes]

How do you not call hiding behind a shield covering their own asses while their kin was fighting a desperate battle for their live not betrayal? Then how do you call the leadership selling themselves like cheap whores the first time the Legion comes knocking at their door in 10 thousand years not betrayal?

Tyrande was right to question them, and Thalyssra's response comes off as a rather knee jerk butt hurt reaction.

He already explained how. They were under no obligation to help other Night Elves. It's not like Tyrande et al were some global Night Elf government the Night Elves that turned into Nightborne owed allegiance to. That'd be Azshara.

A comparison. Kaldorei Empire is Syria, Azshara is Assad and Tyrande's squad and Suramar Night Elves are two different groups of rebels that rose against Azshara/Assad. There is no link between the two rebel groups, as such they cannot betray each other.

The idea that Elisande accepting Legion's offer is a betrayal of Night Elves is you butchering the word even more. There was no contact between the two groups whatsoever for 10000 years. You can't betray someone with whom you have no relation or communication of any kind and who, as far as you are aware, may just as well be dead by now.

People still acting as if the first thing they did was hide under a shield ? They stopped the legion from opening a second front, the only reason their city wasn't destroyed in the sundering was because of their shield. Then they thought the rest of the world was gone, just like the Pandaren did on their island.

Not to mention that they put up the shield only after the Legion's army was inbound, Ashamane fell in an effort to save them and there was no one else to help them in sight.

[Ielenia]

/doublefacepalm... no but like humans who built nazi like slavecamps for orcs. (after humans brought them to azeroth in the first place)

Two things wrong in that post: one, it wasn't the humans, but Medivh possessed by Sargeras who opened the Dark Portal on Azeroth's side; and two, your post implies that the orcs didn't intend to come to Azeroth. They fully did. Medivh/Sargeras merely helped open the way. The orcs' intention from the beginning was to raze Azeroth.

[MonsieuRoberts]

#JustElfThings

[Swalload]

So they don't thank the Alliance at all for their help nor do they wish to join them all because Tyrande was cautious with them? Completely disregarding the fact that they might be able to have great bonds with other races in the Alliance, they decide to join the Horde which is full of goblins, undead, orcs and trolls. The latter hate elves.
And that's somehow a BETTER choice than Tyrande's cautionary approach to them? It's so, so ridiculous. Dignity? Yeah good look having dignity in the Horde, Azeroth's rejects.

The Nightborne then call the Alliance stagnant. STAGNANT? What's stagnant about it? Sounds to me like Tyrande is completely right in being wary of the Nightborne, who seem to imply they want to seek power at any cost once more. And they call TYRANDE too proud! Holy smokes, the irony going on here!

Project Manager: Hey, we gonna give horde the nightborne race, we need to make it fit.
Writer: Okay, I'll get on that.
*the next day*
Writer: Well, nothing makes logical sense. I don't know if it's because everything has been poorly written for 13 years or we're just forcing stupid things to invent content that is not really content.
Project Manager: yo tbh fam I don't care, fanboys will pay to play a copy of the same elves we always had so just make it work even if it's stupid.
Writer: Alright let me take a shit on that sheet of paper and call it a day.

BfA, can't wait.

[dekal]

Personally, I get why the nightborne would prefer the horde over the alliance. But the following thought process is a bit much to take in:

1- The horde and the alliance come to my aid.
2- The horde and the alliance shares some common ground, but a representative of the alliance (Tyrande) is cautious of the nightborne.
3- The war is over. The combined forces of the horde and the alliance have saved me from certain death. The horde was a little nicer. I must join them in killing my other savior, the alliance.

I really hope that a part of the story has yet to be revealed, because as it stands, the circumstances are just unbelievable.

[Pooti]

I know that actual lore probably has no place in this thread, but the Nightborne / Nightelf issue is not a race or mutation one, but a CLASS issue. The nightelves ( Kaldorei )we know today were the tree hugging lower class of ancient nightelven society. The current Nightborne and Blood elves were BOTH high elves ( Quel'dorei ) in ancient nightelven society. The were the elite upper class. War of the Ancients happened and the high elves who lived in Suramar were shielded from the legion and mutated to Nightborne. Post War of the Ancients the remaining high elves who refused to give up arcane magic left under the leadership of Sunstrider. They traveled to Eastern Kingdoms and mutated to Blood Elves. The Nightborne and the Blood Elves were the same social class standing at one time, and both looked down on the basic Night Elves. It makes sense that they would find more of a common bond today.

[Ielenia]

"So you guys both helped us out a lot, wanna be friends?"

"Sure we'll be your friends!"
"Uh...maybe we will, I don't really like you very much, we'll have to see..."

Who to pick... :thinking:

A better synopsis:

"So you guys both helped us out a lot, wanna be friends?"

"Sure we'll be your friends!"
"Hm... I don't know, you guys did leave us to die in the past, and now allowed demons into your midst, basically repeating the actions of the highborne ten thousand years ago... how do we know we can trust you at face value to not repeat the same mistake a third time?"

[Queen of Hamsters]

- I don't understand the full story, but I'mma call it bullshit and cry incessantly about bad writing!!

[Pooti]

I know that actual lore probably has no place in this thread, but the Nightborne / Nightelf issue is not a race or mutation one, but a CLASS issue. The nightelves ( Kaldorei )we know today were the tree hugging lower class of ancient nightelven society. The current Nightborne and Blood elves were BOTH high elves ( Quel'dorei ) in ancient nightelven society. The were the elite upper class. War of the Ancients happened and the high elves who lived in Suramar were shielded from the legion and mutated to Nightborne. Post War of the Ancients the remaining high elves who refused to give up arcane magic left under the leadership of Sunstrider. They traveled to Eastern Kingdoms and mutated to Blood Elves. The Nightborne and the Blood Elves were the same social class standing at one time, and both looked down on the basic Night Elves. It makes sense that they would find more of a common bond today.

I would personally have liked the Highmountain Tauren to join the alliance, as they have an ancient connection to the kaldorei, fighting side by side during the War of the Ancients. It also would have given horde a "nightelf" and alliance a "tauren".

[Ielenia]

What on earth are you talking about? The Nightborne started the insurrection and it was already progressing by the time other Elves tagged along. Thalyssra almost died to the cause, so directing some nonsense about Nightborne reliability at her in particular is also misplaced.

For the same reason we can't state orcs are warmongering blood-thirsty savages because of Garrosh, we can't state the Nightborne are good because of Thalyssra. The Nightborne, as a whole, have a lot of dirty laundry and skeletons in their closets from their past actions.

[Konteil]

do not bloody well engage mates....

[Kithelle]

Vol'Jin would have a word with you.

Also "Draenor is free!".

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She was just cautious. And that was reasonable from her PoV. As much as I dislike Tyrande imo her actions totally made sense. What doesn't make sense is to cater to all elves that are in trouble and not demand something from them in return.

Nothing is for free, and my impression was that NB expect some sort of special treatment. To not ever call them back on their actions where they shown that they are unreliable, to not ask for them to prove their worth, to not ask for them to simply participate to clear mess they caused.

Seems that they expected outsiders to come clean their mess, do job for them, and be all nice and supportive, pat them on their back and all of that.
At least it was my imperssion so yeah... nobility that truly cannot fathom to face reality.
So yea I have hard time treating them seriously.

Really is no point arguing with the biased buddies...you will never get anything straight out of them...all you'll get is the same old biased rhetoric over and over and over again.

Doesn't matter than the Nightborne were cowards that hid behind a shield and could of very well doomed their own brethren and the entire planet while they were sitting pretty and safe, it doesn't matter that their own people sold them out to the Legion at the first chance they got.

All that matters is they think Tyrande is a bitch for being cautious with a very untrustworthy people, Thalryssa was upset she got called a lemon, so she was mad she got called a lemon because she is a lemon and sided with the horde.