Veng strength in 5-man

[Deleted]

How does vengeance play in m+ now? Returning after a while, thinking of starting up a DH to tank. How strong are they compared to other tanks?
Minor differences I can deal with, but I don't want to bother getting one up if it's a "ew, a DH, lets not invite" kind of situation.

[Leetbeartank]

How does vengeance play in m+ now? Returning after a while, thinking of starting up a DH to tank. How strong are they compared to other tanks?
Minor differences I can deal with, but I don't want to bother getting one up if it's a "ew, a DH, lets not invite" kind of situation.

They're one of the only 3 viable tanks in the highest tier of M+. (top keys) That being said... Any tank is viable until you get that high. They work a lot better with healers that understand how they take damage and how easily/when they can heal themselves up. Also easily the most fun tank in the game right now. Especially for 5 man content.

[razisgosu]

They're very strong in high level keys, especially with the legs.

[Deleted]

They're one of the only 3 viable tanks in the highest tier of M+. (top keys) That being said... Any tank is viable until you get that high. They work a lot better with healers that understand how they take damage and how easily/when they can heal themselves up. Also easily the most fun tank in the game right now. Especially for 5 man content.

Thanks, amigo!

[SupBrah]

Trust me, being a VDH won't keep you from getting into m+ groups. Where VDH may be lagging behind in mythic raiding, it makes up for by excelling in M+.


Great damage, great self healing, and the fact that their cleave synergizes with their self healing (Frailty). They're very mobile and can mitigate magic dmg (which is way more common in M+ than modern raid tiers) just as well as bears when they had Mark of Ursoc (if you have the leg leggos).

They have a silence (2 if BE) and a mass grip if specced into it. You can also screenshot Archimonde's Hatred Reborn's shield when metamorphosis procs for a huge bubble and cleave.

While pretty much every tank is fairly viable in high mythic+, there's only 2 that I can say were basically built for it: Blood DK and Veng DH

[MookieRah]

With the change made to battle res and the 4 set bonus I wouldn't be surprised if VDH is the best M+ tank. You just get so many Meta's and you can make bigger pulls more often. With the ability to also switch in shoulders for pulls in which you need extra utility, they are just in a really good spot right now.

[Raggon]

will I feel inferior to other tanks in heroic raids or it’s fine for everything except mythic raiding?

[Onikaroshi]

will I feel inferior to other tanks in heroic raids or it’s fine for everything except mythic raiding?

It's fine for heroic, and even most mythic, just not cutting edge, top 50 mythic.

[Tech614]

will I feel inferior to other tanks in heroic raids or it’s fine for everything except mythic raiding?

Heroic is a joke, a VDH wouldn't even have trouble tanking it at 930 let alone once 940+. Any tank can tank heroic without much thought, if they have issues it's the players not the tank.

People seem to confuse what's most viable for bleeding edge raiding as being reality of the game. At this point no one is bleeding edge anyways, and even in mythic a VDH is more then fine. Tank balance is actually the best it's been this entire xpac right now, and the best it has been probably since SoO period.

[Deleted]

Hi!
I main veng DH and I have lot of fun in M+. With SB/Fracture we heal a lot in aoe. I'm 954 and in +16 I can stay up with 4-5 mobs beating me while I'm waiting dead healer and dps come back. We also do nice aoe dps.

[Deleted]

DH's are fine in raids, and great in M+, definitely the most fun tank to play (in my own personal opinion of course).

Heroic is a joke, a VDH wouldn't even have trouble tanking it at 930 let alone once 940+. Any tank can tank heroic without much thought, if they have issues it's the players not the tank.

People seem to confuse what's most viable for bleeding edge raiding as being reality of the game. At this point no one is bleeding edge anyways, and even in mythic a VDH is more then fine. Tank balance is actually the best it's been this entire xpac right now, and the best it has been probably since SoO period.

I'd say people have mistaken the word viable for optimal:

viable
ˈvʌɪəb(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: viable

capable of working successfully; feasible.

[RobertoCarlos]

Venge DH is great for dungeons. Dont let the DH community tell you otherwise as they cry about the state of their class.

[Hungamungus]

Vengeance is very powerful. Decent utility with sigils, good survivability, and amazing damage.

[Tinary]

DH is superior tank in a hands of a decent player, kit is sweet, mobility is off the charts and damage/surv is really good. Tho, nothing comes close to a feeling you'll get after pushing a high key and your whole crew dies except you on a last boss and decides to take a smoker to wait for BL and you just finish the boss alone from 80%-0%. Enjoy your new main

[Morreh]

There should also be some mention of the new 4-set essentially letting you stay in metamorphosis for a good 50-60% of a m+ dungeon. Pretty silly.

[Deleted]

I could say, it's pretty decent. Easy to kite, fast movement, good mitigation options, but missing big mitigation (just have basically two kind~ish), and the self healing is just mediocre, but super easy against teeming and skittish. Lack of utility and could be squishy if you don't have the proper gear (some t20 or t21 set and good trinkets and legendaries).
The usual order in m+ is BDK >= Druid > VDH > Pally >= Monk >= Warrior.

[Tech614]

I could say, it's pretty decent. Easy to kite, fast movement, good mitigation options, but missing big mitigation (just have basically two kind~ish), and the self healing is just mediocre, but super easy against teeming and skittish. Lack of utility and could be squishy if you don't have the proper gear (some t20 or t21 set and good trinkets and legendaries).
The usual order in m+ is BDK >= Druid > VDH > Pally >= Monk >= Warrior.

Guardians are literal trash at M+ compared to all 3 of BDK, VDH and Prot Pal. Prot War also destroys them in certain dungeons. This tier ranking is laughable at best. Or maybe you're stuck in t20?

[Veiled Shadow]

I could say, it's pretty decent. Easy to kite, fast movement, good mitigation options, but missing big mitigation (just have basically two kind~ish), and the self healing is just mediocre, but super easy against teeming and skittish. Lack of utility and could be squishy if you don't have the proper gear (some t20 or t21 set and good trinkets and legendaries).
The usual order in m+ is BDK >= Druid > VDH > Pally >= Monk >= Warrior.

Self healing isn't mediocre in mythic+
You don't use T20 2-set, you go T21 4-set in mythic+, and it's hardly squishy with such high meta uptime
And yes, as was said already Guardian druids are the worst tank for high mythic+ by a considerable margin, so putting them at the top is laughable.

[Deleted]

Guardians are literal trash at M+ compared to all 3 of BDK, VDH and Prot Pal. Prot War also destroys them in certain dungeons. This tier ranking is laughable at best. Or maybe you're stuck in t20?

No, i'm not, just I wasn't accurate enough. BDK still superior in m+ coz' could have 1.5m hps and ~2m dps in ST fights (yep, not OP). Honestly feel like you never seen good guardian in m+. They have milion of CD and a few util, so they die only if they are noob. With DH there is the same as with Prot pally. Squishy because you can't have 100% uptime and don't have big CD-s to save against huge spikes more than once in a fight. But if you ever tanked with vdh above 15 then you know.
And yeah I know, if you have good gear (970+) then VDH pretty much cooler than others.

...Self healing isn't mediocre in mythic+...

Compare it with others then you will see. I usually have in trash packs huge self heal, thats for sure, but with less enemy just mediocre. If you checks logs for runs, you will see, by selfheal on ST druid-pally-dh is on the same tier. Bdk as usual in top-notch situation. So considering the numbers, I count it as mediocre only.

[iustis]

Compare it with others then you will see. I usually have in trash packs huge self heal, thats for sure, but with less enemy just mediocre. If you checks logs for runs, you will see, by selfheal on ST druid-pally-dh is on the same tier. Bdk as usual in top-notch situation. So considering the numbers, I count it as mediocre only.

Who cares about ST healing? we can usually self sustain but that's not where tanks push themselves anyways. You push timers by pulling on trash, and VDH excel at that.

But I'm not sure why I'm arguing with someone who thinks bears are top tier in M+, they just aren't. And VDH aren't squishy.

Go look at how many bears have done 25+ keys (the answer is ONE). BDK dominates, and then VDH and prot pally are well represented. Tells the story clearly. And when you factor in how many more BDKs there are with top gear/well skilled players because they are more popular in M raids it's not even close.

Bear in mind that almost every M guild has a bear--and they still are completely absent from top keys.