US Federal Government Shutdown

[Pterodactylus]

It will be built and that is clear by now.

Based on what metric? Kelly's backpedaling, or Trump's? perhaps the all of the private land that needs to be seized by the federal government using eminent domain? and the resulting court battles. Ask border texans what they think about that idea!

What makes you think that a "big, beautiful wall" is going to be built. What makes that "clear" to you? It must be all the members of congress lining up willing to fund such a boondoggle? You're in a fantasy land if you think that wall is going to be built. They'll build a 20 mile stretch for the photo op, and that will be good enough for the base.

[NineSpine]

No other nation lets more people in than we do. Being the most advanced economy on the planet it is complicated. I agree with a lot you said but your assumption doesn't take into account that people also want to be here because of the vast welfare state we have built. The issue is we need people that contribute have capital and want to be citizens or commonly refereed to merit base migration.

That's plainly false. The U.S. has about the same level of immigration as most other Western nations. The U.S also has the weakest welfare state of all Western nations. You are operating on assumptions that are just factually inaccurate.

[Jastall]

Did you know that a one time payment of 20~ billion + low upkeep is less than however many billions are otherwise spent dealing with illegal immigration over the border? Your argument is the equivalent of being against building a new 4 lane highway through the country side for a few billion because you can just add a single lane to the existing roads for the same price, the issue is that you have to keep adding lanes to keep up with development

If you truly think a tall, well manned wall going from the Atlantic to the Pacific and through some of the most inhospitable territory in North America is only going to cost 20 billion and have ''low upkeep'' I've got a bridge to Salt Lake to sell to you. You bought Trump's bullshit hook, line and sinker.

[Vatrilian]

> "Immigration isn't about race."
> "This country was built by Europeans."

You interjected race through the entire argument because that is all you have. European immigrants created the United States whose laws norms and customs have made it the most powerful country on the planet. If Africans used the European cultural model they would have conquered the world as well but that didn't happen. Race is irrelevant. You believe if we switched people out from this country from other ones it would be the same? Diversity is not our strength we are strong despite our diversity. Out of many one.

My piece argue what you will. The fact is The democrat party has shut down the government for illegal aliens. There is no fix but a continued endless chain of amnesties which is by plan. The democrat party has abandoned the working class, it has abandoned to rule via a coalition of minorities. Only problem they played their hand to quickly and bet wrong. Think all they have to do is grant amnesty every 5-10 years and the republican party will be a permanent minority. This is why they are willing to de-fund the government over it. They will use what happened in California and apply that model to Texas and Florida. Republicans will not see the white house for decades and this country will be a very different place.

[Ragedaug]

According to Trump's own words, it is his fault. After all, he tried to blame Obama in 2013...

I'm not following. What did he say was his fault?

[Machismo]

I'm not following. What did he say was his fault?

When he said the shutdown was the president's fault in 2013.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...down-resurface

[NineSpine]

And Australia was built by the aboriginals I guess? No this country was founded by and built by Europeans like it or not. This country would be starckly different had it been founded by Chinese, Africans, or other cultures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor..._United_States

From a quite literal perspective, this country was built by slaves.

[Machismo]

You interjected race through the entire argument because that is all you have. European immigrants created the United States whose laws norms and customs have made it the most powerful country on the planet. If Africans used the European cultural model they would have conquered the world as well but that didn't happen. Race is irrelevant. You believe if we switched people out from this country from other ones it would be the same? Diversity is not our strength we are strong despite our diversity. Out of many one.

My piece argue what you will. The fact is The democrat party has shut down the government for illegal aliens. There is no fix but a continued endless chain of amnesties which is by plan. The democrat party has abandoned the working class, it has abandoned to rule via a coalition of minorities. Only problem they played their hand to quickly and bet wrong. Think all they have to do is grant amnesty every 5-10 years and the republican party will be a permanent minority. This is why they are willing to de-fund the government over it. They will use what happened in California and apply that model to Texas and Florida. Republicans will not see the white house for decades and this country will be a very different place.

You can keep saying it over and over again, it doesn't make it any more true. You want to blame Democrats, because you are clearly a GOP supporter, and vice versa for the others. At the end of the day, the polls show people are more likely to blame the GOP and Trump.

[Isilarya]

Based on what metric? Kelly's backpedaling, or Trump's? perhaps the all of the private land that needs to be seized by the federal government using eminent domain? and the resulting court battles. Ask border texans what they think about that idea!

What makes you think that a "big, beautiful wall" is going to be built. What makes that "clear" to you? It must be all the members of congress lining up willing to fund such a boondoggle? You're in a fantasy land if you think that wall is going to be built. They'll build a 20 mile stretch for the photo op, and that will be good enough for the base.

Legal immigration is great I dont care about them, the wall wont work unless they go 100+ feet underground I accept this. We have so much military that sits in garrison stateside doing nothing that I dont know why, since we all get paid anyway already its not like it influxes that much, they dont have us use some of our wonderful equipment that collects dust and just patrol the borders ourselves, im pretty sure when a few of the human smugglers get absolutely plastered into a unrecognizable mess by some M2s theyll be alot more reluctant. Soldiers get to be productive and we dont have to spend money on a wall. Win win.

[Elegiac]

Republicans will not see the white house for decades and this country will be a very different place.

We can only hope.

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Legal immigration is great I dont care about them, the wall wont work unless they go 100+ feet underground I accept this. We have so much military that sits in garrison stateside doing nothing that I dont know why, since we all get paid anyway already its not like it influxes that much, they dont have us use some of our wonderful equipment that collects dust and just patrol the borders ourselves, im pretty sure when a few of the human smugglers get absolutely plastered into a unrecognizable mess by some M2s theyll be alot more reluctant. Soldiers get to be productive and we dont have to spend money on a wall. Win win.

Let's spend money that should be going towards social programs and modernising the military into combating a non-issue by inhumane means.

Sounds legit.

[Isilarya]

We can only hope.

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Let's spend money that should be going towards social programs and modernising the military into combating a non-issue by inhumane means.

Sounds legit.

Our paychecks happen whether we sit in garrison playing mop wars or go out doing things....how much extra would this really take?

[Elegiac]

Our paychecks happen whether we sit in garrison playing mop wars or go out doing things....how much extra would this really take?

Sounds like we need to cut your paychecks and put it to better use elsewhere, then.

[For_The_Horde]

Legal immigration is great I dont care about them, the wall wont work unless they go 100+ feet underground I accept this. We have so much military that sits in garrison stateside doing nothing that I dont know why, since we all get paid anyway already its not like it influxes that much, they dont have us use some of our wonderful equipment that collects dust and just patrol the borders ourselves, im pretty sure when a few of the human smugglers get absolutely plastered into a unrecognizable mess by some M2s theyll be alot more reluctant. Soldiers get to be productive and we dont have to spend money on a wall. Win win.

Except what you just described is a war crime, intentionally killing (unarmed) civilians is illegal on so many levels. You can call their immigration here illegal all you want, that doesn't give anyone the authority to murder them.

[NineSpine]

You interjected race through the entire argument because that is all you have. European immigrants created the United States whose laws norms and customs have made it the most powerful country on the planet. If Africans used the European cultural model they would have conquered the world as well but that didn't happen. Race is irrelevant. You believe if we switched people out from this country from other ones it would be the same? Diversity is not our strength we are strong despite our diversity. Out of many one.

My piece argue what you will. The fact is The democrat party has shut down the government for illegal aliens. There is no fix but a continued endless chain of amnesties which is by plan. The democrat party has abandoned the working class, it has abandoned to rule via a coalition of minorities. Only problem they played their hand to quickly and bet wrong. Think all they have to do is grant amnesty every 5-10 years and the republican party will be a permanent minority. This is why they are willing to de-fund the government over it. They will use what happened in California and apply that model to Texas and Florida. Republicans will not see the white house for decades and this country will be a very different place.

As an historian, I am more than happy to pick apart this insanity:

1. The U.S. was founded on enlightenment principles. Where did enlightenment principles come from? They come from Mediterranean philosophy, primarily the Greeks. Europe actually lost those great works and it was the Arabs that held onto them and eventually reintroduced them to Europe.

2. The Arab world was quite a bit more advanced than Europe for hundreds and hundreds of years. However, Europe had certain unearned advantages. Do you know what farming in Europe is like? In most of the continent, crops basically grow themselves all damn year. Very few parts of the world have the built-in advantages Europe has: A combination of amazing climate and massive amounts of natural resources. It's physically impossible for Africa to have done what Europe did. Just on climate alone, Africa is susceptible to disease in a way Europe is not.

3. Europe is diverse as fuck. The idea that Europe is homogenous because they are white is laughable to most Europeans. It's a concept that only appeals to people who have no understanding of the vast cultural gulfs between a nation like Italy and a nation like The United Kingdom. In fact, your assertion that Europe is homogenous is itself a statement of profound racism and ignorance, because there's no basis for your statement other than Europe being white, so you MUST be assuming that white people have some intrinsic value that places them higher than others and gives them commonalities.

4. The Democratic Party told the Republican Party that they will be happy to sign onto their bill if they give them something relatively small that they want. The Republican Party said they would and then changed their minds. The issue that it is about is really irrelevant. The Republicans have chosen to spend a year governing as though the Democrats don't exist. At some point, enough is enough. If they want to govern without Democrats, then they should not expect the votes of Democrats. You seem to believe that it is the job of the Democrats to rubber stamp whatever bullshit Republicans put forward. Sorry, but it isn't.

5. You've really twisted yourself into a weird pretzel here. You say the Democrats have abandoned rule via a coalition of minorities, while defending the plan of the Republicans to refuse a single concession to Democrats.

6. This country is already diverse and already made up of a vast number of disparate cultures. It is you who wants to change this country.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Our paychecks happen whether we sit in garrison playing mop wars or go out doing things....how much extra would this really take?

We can just increase funding on the border which hires more people and creates jobs. We need to work with mexico and use there citizen as informant like we do in the Middle East because a more stable Mexico helps us. They're a pretty big trade partner especially when compared to Israel but that's a story for another day(same goes for Saudi Arab but tons of our allies rely on oil so that's not ending anytime soon kappa pride)...

[NineSpine]

Legal immigration is great I dont care about them, the wall wont work unless they go 100+ feet underground I accept this. We have so much military that sits in garrison stateside doing nothing that I dont know why, since we all get paid anyway already its not like it influxes that much, they dont have us use some of our wonderful equipment that collects dust and just patrol the borders ourselves, im pretty sure when a few of the human smugglers get absolutely plastered into a unrecognizable mess by some M2s theyll be alot more reluctant. Soldiers get to be productive and we dont have to spend money on a wall. Win win.

It won't be smugglers that get plastered. It will be random civilians and their children.

[Jastall]

Our paychecks happen whether we sit in garrison playing mop wars or go out doing things....how much extra would this really take?

Well moving soldiers around isn't just a question of paycheck. It requires supplies, perhaps extra officers to oversee, definitely formations and drills so that some hotheads are reminded that rules of engagements are, in fact, a thing regardless of their personal opinions on beaners, that sort of stuff. The army is pretty good at finding new and innovative ways to spend its money.

To say nothing of the fact that having soldiers armed with machine guns patrolling the border to stop José the prospective raspberry picker seems a tad overkill for the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. But that may be just me.

[Jtbrig7390]

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Sounds like we need to cut your paychecks and put it to better use elsewhere, then.

Helping mexico get stable decreasing the reason for people to illegally immigrate. We also need to fine business for hiring illegals a state did this and it worked so well farmers couldn't find people to hire for cheap enough. So, we maybe need to be less extreme but it works. Israel saw the biggest drop in terrorism before the wall was built because they gave counter terrorist unit more funding and worked with surrounding countries more. Let's copy it and not throw money away at a wall to dick wave.

[Saucexorzski]

You really shouldn't believe a guy who lies so much...