Alliance Faction is Good. Not Evil. there's a difference.

[FelPlague]

Popular /= Right.

And yes, Stormwind. The battle she and Nathanos have longed for...

Wait, what? Since when have Sylvanas and Nathanos longed to battle against Stormwind? It's not in the books, it's not in the game. It's not in the comics or talked about by the CDevs at a panel at Blizzcon, or even hinted at by Lore Twitter... Where the fuck did this come from?!

Oh. But you know who -is- in Stormwind? Who they -have- longed to fight and kill?

Greymane. King's advisor.

Gosh, I wonder if Stormwind in this context is a writer's rhetorical flourish to mislead the reader and fire their imagination to hook them into the novel to find out what happens?

http://www.wowhead.com/news=275306/b...mpler-spoilers
very last line
nice try.

[Nerovar]

Then I'll ask you to show some Lore where Sylvanas and Nathanos Blightcaller have a hate-on for Stormwind, and have for a while, enough that it's a battle they've "Longed For"

The -only- thing I can think of, is vengeance for not allowing the Forsaken to join the Alliance between WC3 and Vanilla, which is what lead Sylvanas to join the Horde.

Beyond that, relations may have been strained, but there's never been any serious malice between Sylvanas and Stormwind.

Well the most obvious reason is of course revenge because after all Genn Greymane just ruined her plans of attaining immortality. Also have you forgotten that the Forsaken require ongoing conflict in order to not die out? They need bodies (seemingly human bodies as I don't recall seeing any undead orcs, trolls etc. in Undercity/Tirisfal etc.) in order to create new Forsaken. They've attacked Hillsbrad, they've attacked Gilneas (unfortunately for them, the worgen curse made the Gilneans immune).

Ongoing peace means extinction for the Forsaken. They're undead monstrosities after all.

[Steampunkette]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=275306/b...mpler-spoilers
very last line
nice try.

Two linens above it, the clause that the sentence-fragment is a part of.

"It is, for the moment," she said. "Injuries need time to heal. Crops need to be planted. But soon, I will call upon the brave fighters of the Horde for another battle. The one you and I have both longed for."

Otherwise she's just saying "Stormwind" for no fucking reason.

Nice try.

Well the most obvious reason is of course revenge because after all Genn Greymane just ruined her plans of attaining immortality. Also have you forgotten that the Forsaken require ongoing conflict in order to not die out? They need bodies (seemingly human bodies as I don't recall seeing any undead orcs, trolls etc. in Undercity/Tirisfal etc.) in order to create new Forsaken. They've attacked Hillsbrad, they've attacked Gilneas (unfortunately for them, the worgen curse made the Gilneans immune).

Ongoing peace means extinction for the Forsaken. They're undead monstrosities after all.

For one thing: The Forsaken don't need more people if there's no war. If there's no war, they continue to exist as they are -almost indefinitely. Sure they'll rot over time, but if there's no war, they can spend their time looking for solutions.

And even if they do need more people: People die ALL THE TIME. Accidents. Age. Disease. Raise 'em. It's not like you need a birth rate in the thousands per month to maintain your numbers, between WC3 and Wrath there were no more Forsaken made, only the ones who already existed (Some of whom were trapped in their coffins) and they had enough people to keep the kingdom running.

It's only because of War (and the threat of it) that more forsaken are needed so drastically, because war results in dead Forsaken.

Revenge on Greymane I'll give you, absolutely. It's what I think she's talking about in the Christie Golden novel.

But that means she wants HIM. Not to "Nuke Everything" to get more corpses as has been posited.

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Headcanon: Pretty sure Saurfang would cleave her in two if she tried something like that.

By the way. What's all this talk about caring about her people? She yelled she didn't care for them and only uses them as a meat shield, "A bulwark against the infinite"

That's not really headcanon, I'm pretty sure he would, too, since he warned her the Horde would rise up if she was weak (And Peace = Weakness)

And she does care. She puts on this disaffected attitude to try and present herself as uncaring. But if the Forsaken were -just- a Bulwark against the infinite the initial idea that the Desolate Council were traitors wouldn't cut her so deeply or elicit such a strong response that Nathanos has to correct her before she even opens her mouth.

[Kathranis]

https://youtu.be/ddUILhiTCsg?t=4m25s
yes exactly how its worded
"4:25 if link doesent work"

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https://youtu.be/ddUILhiTCsg?t=4m25s
yes, yes i can
btw yall should watch the whole video

I don't need to watch the video, I did the quests myself already.

As a Horde player you're sent to kill the SI:7 spies that are stealthed in the mining camp. As an Alliance player you're sent to blow up goblin shredders which requires killing goblin miners, too.

[Deleted]

And she does care. She puts on this disaffected attitude to try and present herself as uncaring. But if the Forsaken were -just- a Bulwark against the infinite the initial idea that the Desolate Council were traitors wouldn't cut her so deeply or elicit such a strong response that Nathanos has to correct her before she even opens her mouth.

She hates the Desolate Council, because they are not the nice little meat shield slaves she's used to.

[FelPlague]

I don't need to watch the video, I did the quests myself already.

As a Horde player you're sent to kill the SI:7 spies that are stealthed in the mining camp. As an Alliance player you're sent to blow up goblin shredders which requires killing goblin miners, too.

yes.
but before anything is found out form either faction
the alliance is told to "Take out any horde agressors"
and the horde is told to "take out any alliance"
this is before any of the conflict begins, just meeting up

[Deleted]

I don't need to watch the video, I did the quests myself already.

As a Horde player you're sent to kill the SI:7 spies that are stealthed in the mining camp. As an Alliance player you're sent to blow up goblin shredders which requires killing goblin miners, too.

And the quest givers were talking when you were already on your way to the Uldum portal.

Alliance said "Take care of any Horde agressors"
Horde said "Kill any Alliance you see"

[FelPlague]

Two linens above it, the clause that the sentence-fragment is a part of.

"It is, for the moment," she said. "Injuries need time to heal. Crops need to be planted. But soon, I will call upon the brave fighters of the Horde for another battle. The one you and I have both longed for."

Otherwise she's just saying "Stormwind" for no fucking reason.

what? yeah, both her and nathanos want to take stormwind, i dont get why you are trying to make your own cannon be saying "this isnt cannon" when it is, she and nathanos want to take stormwind

[Steampunkette]

She hates the Desolate Council, because they are not the nice little meat shield slaves she's used to.

Initially she reacts with betrayal. But when Nathanos explains they're not rebelling but just handling day-to-day affairs she's mollified and calms down. She's upset, again, when she learns they're not hot to trot on the immortality train but Nathanos reminds her, and I'll remind you, that she gave them Free Will and they're exercising it.

She could've mind-controlled them and had actual meat-shield slaves (Still might if she winds up going raid boss since even that might not be a bridge too far if she's really threatened and goes off the deep end) but she didn't. She sees them as people...

Which is more than you can say for the Alliance.

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what? yeah, both her and nathanos want to take stormwind, i dont get why you are trying to make your own cannon be saying "this isnt cannon" when it is, she and nathanos want to take stormwind

LONGED FOR implies that for some period of time they've wanted the battle.

But there's fuck-all to show that they've longed for a battle against Stormwind or the Alliance.

Genn? Sure. He's in Stormwind, counseling Anduin. But Stormwind itself?

There's never been a -hint- before now. Which is why I think it's a rhetorical flourish. 'Cause it's either that or a Retroactive Continuity. And the only thing Stormwind has ever "Done" to them is not letting them join the Alliance back at the end of WC3/Beginning of WoW.

Maybe -that's- why they've longed for that battle? But it feels... stretchy.

[Mirishka]

There's something that has been getting under my skin since the beginning of legion to now. Is that Players or Horde Fans Calling out the Alliance who is fighting back against whatever mess up plans or ideas the horde has done is a Evil Faction.

They say that "oh Forsaken is a misunderstand race only made the plague to kill off the scourge and use it for other things like replaguing lands across Lordaeron or creating Mess up Monsters under the Forsaken war Machine. But when it comes down to the alliance or worgens fighting back against the corrupted plans from Forsaken/Sylvanas they are evil, they are racist, they have no lives should be siting there doing nothing and let us keep destroying life on Azeroth."
Same goes to the New Silithus Drama. "Oh Goblins were sent to get lifeblood crystals of Azeroth for Money and for Horde to use it as Weapons of mass destruction against the alliance and anyone. But the alliance sents in Random SI 7 Agents to stop the Goblins that means they are racist and evil."
"Oh you play the Alliance only for humans? That means your a racist and Alliance Fanboy." Oh you play Draeneis, or Night Elves, or Dwarves? That makes you total racist fanboy!"

Do you see my point folks. You don't see me or anyone within the wow community acting like a social justice fanboy calling out people who plays a difference faction then yours. In this case I have been seeing more negatively on the Horde side than the Alliance. Alliance is Good band of People trying to save whatever lands they have left and Honorable Faction that supports any race. Meanwhile you use to have the Horde be these band of races trying to survive a new world while still bring Honor and Respect to anybody ether Goblin or Tauren, Blood elf or Orc. However due to blizzard's writing and caving in one a fanbase that is so ridiculous toxic I feel like this New Horde this New Sylvanas Horde is not the Horde I used to play during the times of Warcraft 3, Vanilla, and up to Wrath. I mean what does Sylvanas do? Pretty much cause more destruction and pain to anyone in only for her to remain alive as long as possible and only cares about her own people instead of the rest the horde. Its like as if She doesn't even about the position as Warchief and Rest of the Faction at all.
Say what you will about Garrosh. He may had done some terrible things but atleast it was for the good of horde even through during Mop he got lost in this true horde moment. As for Vol'jin atleast he kept everything at peace until legion came and give troll players a cheap death by having him be stabbed by a random demon.

Only reason why Blizzard made Sylvanas Windrunner Warchief is only to pleased the fanbase and She's a terribly underdeveloped character that hasn't done anything for the horde other than the Forsaken and herself. Maybe Blizzard hasn't developed her enough or maybe I'm just some salty blue fanboy. But point is this harassment of calling people racist or idiots just because they play the alliance or support it is really starting to ignore the living crap out of me. Don't see Alliance players calling the horde idiots or racist.

Bottom Line. The Horde are the aggressors because they mine azerite in Silithus without the alliance knowing and even going so far as to kill anyone on sight. Get these facts right and stop making up excuses.

So a bunch of random people say a bunch of random things and it affects you enough to come post a blog? Play the faction you enjoy, and stop giving a shit what people you're never going to meet think about it.

[Leodric]

Two linens above it, the clause that the sentence-fragment is a part of.

"It is, for the moment," she said. "Injuries need time to heal. Crops need to be planted. But soon, I will call upon the brave fighters of the Horde for another battle. The one you and I have both longed for."

Otherwise she's just saying "Stormwind" for no fucking reason.

Nice try.

You know the last line "Stormwind." was connected to the line before which states "
Nathanos was silent. She did not take that for disagreement of disapproval. He was often silent. That he did not press her for more details meant that he understood what she wanted." which was connected to the line with "The one you and I have both longed for.".

Try to process this information, and tell me again what she might have meant with "I will call upon the brave fighters of the Horde for another battle. The one you and I have both longed for."

Please do that, simple logic and common sense.

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Initially she reacts with betrayal. But when Nathanos explains they're not rebelling but just handling day-to-day affairs she's mollified and calms down. She's upset, again, when she learns they're not hot to trot on the immortality train but Nathanos reminds her, and I'll remind you, that she gave them Free Will and they're exercising it.

She could've mind-controlled them and had actual meat-shield slaves (Still might if she winds up going raid boss since even that might not be a bridge too far if she's really threatened and goes off the deep end) but she didn't. She sees them as people...

Which is more than you can say for the Alliance.

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LONGED FOR implies that for some period of time they've wanted the battle.

But there's fuck-all to show that they've longed for a battle against Stormwind or the Alliance.

Genn? Sure. He's in Stormwind, counseling Anduin. But Stormwind itself?

There's never been a -hint- before now. Which is why I think it's a rhetorical flourish. 'Cause it's either that or a Retroactive Continuity. And the only thing Stormwind has ever "Done" to them is not letting them join the Alliance back at the end of WC3/Beginning of WoW.

Maybe -that's- why they've longed for that battle? But it feels... stretchy.

Of course it feels stretchy and out of nowhere. That's what I mean before, if the author of the novel really twists it somehow, that Sylvanas does not want to have anyhting to do with a battle for Stormwind, it would be a really fucking bad prelude, it just makes 0 sense. Also there is still the reason, that Stormwind consists of a lot of Humans which she might want to revive as Forsaken, so there is that.

[Nerovar]

Two linens above it, the clause that the sentence-fragment is a part of.

"It is, for the moment," she said. "Injuries need time to heal. Crops need to be planted. But soon, I will call upon the brave fighters of the Horde for another battle. The one you and I have both longed for."

Otherwise she's just saying "Stormwind" for no fucking reason.

Nice try.



For one thing: The Forsaken don't need more people if there's no war. If there's no war, they continue to exist as they are -almost indefinitely. Sure they'll rot over time, but if there's no war, they can spend their time looking for solutions.

And even if they do need more people: People die ALL THE TIME. Accidents. Age. Disease. Raise 'em. It's not like you need a birth rate in the thousands per month to maintain your numbers, between WC3 and Wrath there were no more Forsaken made, only the ones who already existed (Some of whom were trapped in their coffins) and they had enough people to keep the kingdom running.

It's only because of War (and the threat of it) that more forsaken are needed so drastically, because war results in dead Forsaken.

As you said: Forsaken decompose and Forsaken can also die to accidents/homicide etc. and do you honestly think they could just go to the humans of the Alliance and ask them nicely to give up their dead loved ones so they can inflict them with the curse of undeath?
If the Alliance doesn't give them bodies, the Forsaken will decompose and eventually die out if they don't start a war to obtain more bodies.
Prior to Wotlk the Forsaken didn't really need to create new Forsaken because their main goal was to destroy the Lich King and not to exist as a nation of undead people. This is best reflected in the character of Sylvanas herself who commited suicide after the defeat of the Lich King because the only thing that kept her "alive" was revenge (now it's fear).

To say that Forsaken need to create more Forsaken because of war is a delusional confusion of cause and effect. After all it's the Forsaken who are trying to expand their borders at the cost of other races all the time.


Edit: also regarding the whole free will thing. Didn't the Forsaken try to create more obedient slaves in the sludge fields by experimenting on prisoners of war?

[FelPlague]

As you said: Forsaken decompose and Forsaken can also die to accidents/homicide etc. and do you honestly think they could just go to the humans of the Alliance and ask them nicely to give up their dead loved ones so they can inflict them with the curse of undeath?
If the Alliance doesn't give them bodies, the Forsaken will decompose and eventually die out if they don't start a war to obtain more bodies.
Prior to Wotlk the Forsaken didn't really need to create new Forsaken because their main goal was to destroy the Lich King and not to exist as a nation of undead people. This is best reflected in the character of Sylvanas herself who commited suicide after the defeat of the Lich King because the only thing that kept her "alive" was revenge (now it's fear).

To say that Forsaken need to create more Forsaken because of war is a delusional confusion of cause and effect. After all it's the Forsaken who are trying to expand their borders at the cost of other races all the time.


Edit: also regarding the whole free will thing. Didn't the Forsaken try to create more obedient slaves in the sludge fields by experimenting on prisoners of war?

correct
also look up fenris isle, a group of humans trying to escape the undead, you kill them and raise them literally right away, and 90% of them are "praise sylvanas" well the odd one yells "what have you done to me" but is still forced to join the forsaken

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Wrathgate wasn't Horde's doing, it was Putress', the grove was indeed done by a commander of the Horde which Garrosh personally executed after the deed(You should try both parts of the story, not only Alliance and its not hard to reach there its a 25-30lvl zone and one I would recommend)

Theramore was an enemy port being used to shelter troops in a period of war, while I agree that using a mana-bomb was an overkill it's still a justified attack (In which the Kirin tor Broke Neutrality once again).

Goblins are Goblins I don't have anything to say about them.

Going back to Sylvanas and the forsaken it's the same as the US(the exact same reasons), why would you spend countless resources and your people lives when you can Nuke TWICE and end(Win) the war ?

theramore was filled with innocent people, did you even see SoO where mothers and fathers were forced to fight to the death for the "true horde"'s amusment or have their children slain?

[Nerovar]

Going back to Sylvanas and the forsaken it's the same as the US(the exact same reasons), why would you spend countless resources and your people lives when you can Nuke TWICE and end(Win) the war ?

If you are evil/lack basic morals and show no consideration for the value of life, there is no reason not to. Which is the entire point of this discussion.

[Steampunkette]

You know the last line "Stormwind." was connected to the line before which states "
Nathanos was silent. She did not take that for disagreement of disapproval. He was often silent. That he did not press her for more details meant that he understood what she wanted." which was connected to the line with "The one you and I have both longed for.".

Try to process this information, and tell me again what she might have meant with "I will call upon the brave fighters of the Horde for another battle. The one you and I have both longed for."

Please do that, simple logic and common sense.

Yes. Of COURSE the last line is Stormwind and connects to the previous statement and the internal monologue/thought process. No shit. The issue is that it's one they've LONGED FOR. Why have they longed for it? When did they long for it? There's nothing elsewhere in the game, books, or comics that shows them longing for it, so whenceforth came the longing?

Which you clearly understand, based on the other half of this post so I don't understand what the fuck you're trying to say, here.

Of course it feels stretchy and out of nowhere. That's what I mean before, if the author of the novel really twists it somehow, that Sylvanas does not want to have anyhting to do with a battle for Stormwind, it would be a really fucking bad prelude, it just makes 0 sense. Also there is still the reason, that Stormwind consists of a lot of Humans which she might want to revive as Forsaken, so there is that.

If Sylvanas's "Battle" at Stormwind isn't one of mass-slaughter of the occupants of Stormwind and is instead an attack specifically on Greymane it certainly undermines the idea that she wants to completely obliterate Stormwind to get more corpses to raise because -that's- what the argument was in the first place. Me pointing out that she doesn't want destruction for destruction's sake, or destruction to just grab some more corpses. She wants immortality, which is what -she'd- probably use the Azerite for, as opposed to just making a nuke and dropping it on Stormwind.

It's an issue where I'm trying to make one argument and in the process of defending that argument from 4 different people they each present diffferent sub-arguments and shit gets tangled.

As you said: Forsaken decompose and Forsaken can also die to accidents/homicide etc. and do you honestly think they could just go to the humans of the Alliance and ask them nicely to give up their dead loved ones so they can inflict them with the curse of undeath?
If the Alliance doesn't give them bodies, the Forsaken will decompose and eventually die out if they don't start a war to obtain more bodies.
Prior to Wotlk the Forsaken didn't really need to create new Forsaken because their main goal was to destroy the Lich King and not to exist as a nation of undead people. This is best reflected in the character of Sylvanas herself who commited suicide after the defeat of the Lich King because the only thing that kept her "alive" was revenge (now it's fear).

To say that Forsaken need to create more Forsaken because of war is a delusional confusion of cause and effect. After all it's the Forsaken who are trying to expand their borders at the cost of other races all the time.


Edit: also regarding the whole free will thing. Didn't the Forsaken try to create more obedient slaves in the sludge fields by experimenting on prisoners of war?

Would every human from Stormwind be all "Yes. Raise grandpa from the grave, please?" No. But some would. Some love-lorn folks would gladly seek undeath to return their lover to the land of the living because "Even death cannot end our love!" or whatever. There would always be people who want to cheat death, too. Who sign contracts to be raised when they die because they don't want to go.

Would it be as much as a war? No. But there's also people dying on other battlefields that don't INVOLVE the Forsaken who could be raised to fight again for their King and Country, or go home with honors and laurels for having sacrificed themselves in the line of duty to spend their remaining years with their loved ones.

And yeah. There were some Forsaken who tried to do that. And Sylvanas wanted them dead for it. She gave them Free Will and they tried to take it from others because they had the choice and made the wrong one.

As to the "Expanding their Borders" thing: Hillsbrad and Gilneas were both Ordered by Garrosh. Sylvanas didn't get a wild bug in her bonnet and decide to go kill people, Garrosh would've killed her if she refused (And she values her life more than any other) so she went to war. And then she used the Plague to minimize Forsaken Casualties in the battles while the Val'kyr raised more soldiers both against Garrosh's orders because she could conserve lives that way.

Also worth noting? She took a Hostage to force a peace agreement when the Worgen resurged in their fighting. She could've just dumped more Plague on them, and the 7th Legion, and sent more of her people to die in a costly, but ultimately successful campaign because the Plague is basically Mustard Gas.

But she chose to keep her people alive. Even though she could always just raise more off of the battlefield, she kept the ones she's had, the ones who are loyal and have been since WC3, even when Putress and others betrayed her...

[Nerovar]

Would every human from Stormwind be all "Yes. Raise grandpa from the grave, please?" No. But some would. Some love-lorn folks would gladly seek undeath to return their lover to the land of the living because "Even death cannot end our love!" or whatever. There would always be people who want to cheat death, too. Who sign contracts to be raised when they die because they don't want to go.

Would it be as much as a war? No. But there's also people dying on other battlefields that don't INVOLVE the Forsaken who could be raised to fight again for their King and Country, or go home with honors and laurels for having sacrificed themselves in the line of duty to spend their remaining years with their loved ones.

And yeah. There were some Forsaken who tried to do that. And Sylvanas wanted them dead for it. She gave them Free Will and they tried to take it from others because they had the choice and made the wrong one.

As to the "Expanding their Borders" thing: Hillsbrad and Gilneas were both Ordered by Garrosh. Sylvanas didn't get a wild bug in her bonnet and decide to go kill people, Garrosh would've killed her if she refused (And she values her life more than any other) so she went to war. And then she used the Plague to minimize Forsaken Casualties in the battles while the Val'kyr raised more soldiers both against Garrosh's orders because she could conserve lives that way.

We're talking about sustaining a nation. Again there are several flaws with your argument 1) A few desperate people seeking to prolong the lives of their dead loved ones is simply not enough 2) why would they want them raised when they're not going to see them anyways. After all they're Forsaken now and are probably going to Tirisfal3) The people of Lordaeron recognised that their own home was in ruins and pretty much lifeless but it was their home nonetheless. Why do you consider that these people of the Alliance would even want to be part of an undead kingdom that is far away from their own home?

As far as I can remember Sylvanas only wanted the responsible forsaken dead because they also experimented on Forsaken.

So within a single argument you say that 1) Sylvanas couldn't refuse Garrosh's orders because he would have killed her and 2) that she did so anyways by creating more Forsaken. wew

I think I'm actually done discussing. This is too much.

[Deleted]

there is not weapon builded yet, there is no proyect on how to use it yet at this point of the history on wow since the mineral is new (making tasting for it, maybe). the only thing sure right now lore wise is that is a very powerful mineral, and thats it.

on the North Korea topic, its an act of war because you know that they are trying to make war to South Korea, Japan and US and you know that is plutonium used for mostly and they are trying to start a war and making loud calls for it. And on WoW right now there was a pact of no agression until the legion was deal with it (that sylvanas can legitly make a call to the alliance at the moment of the graymane ambush on stormheim) and the mineral have no real use yet.

but killing unarmed miners (civilians) and sabotaging a mine with a pact of no agression on going (doesnt remember if at some point is called that is broken out by that time frame) is an real act of war.

and yet there has been on real life wars started by assuming something by your "not friend" (not enemy yet), and is not right (even if the assumption were right at the end)

The mineral itself is the weapon/bomb. It's highly explosive they said at blizzcon aswell. The ammount mined will be used to explode Darnassus. If the alliance hadnt intervened who knows what else.

Just as you say about North korea, the horde's intentions are clear and the mining is an act of war. The alliance retaliated to that. The horde is still the agressor. The operation was shutdown because unlike with north korea the horde is not interested in any kind of peace talks and horde champions were told to kill anyone on sight. So, it is painfully obvious they were the ones that started hostilities.

[BSwitch]

Neither faction is good or evil - depending on who you are, you tend to think you're the good guy, and "they're" the bad guy. I was born/raised in America - taught that we were the best country on earth, and the arbiters of all that is good and righteous in the world, and we were lucky to be born in such a great place. Then, after high school, I moved abroad. Everyone that I ever met from other countries said the same thing about their homes (some exceptions for people who had left pretty dire situations). I don't really want to turn this into an irl political thing, but just to say I gained LOTS of perspective about the actual state of the world once I left the US and could see other countries and their people up close, and could see the US from the outside.

It's the same with Azeroth. I play Alliance, but there are plenty of blinded idiots in this faction. My character (Paladin, now the leader of the Silver Hand which accepts all Paladins) would not discount or fight the Horde simply because of their races or affiliations. As a Paladin, my character would fight users of the Void who were on the Alliance sooner than Light users who happened to be Horde. There's not a universe in which my Paladin would align with Void Elves...yet, that's what my faction leaders are doing...

But, is that right? Is Alleria evil because she's aligned with the Void? Can I condone the forced subjugation and attempted submission of Illidan, even though he didn't want the Light forced on him? It's all a matter of perspective. Just like irl, everybody believes they're right and good, and their enemies have it wrong, and in reality we could all use a little more discussion and empathy, rather than jumping to conclusions and fighting.

[FelPlague]

Theramore was an assault, Garrosh left them time to evacuate the innocent before the bombing.

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They might be abominations with no right to exist to you, but I guess that double standards is the norm around here.

and then he captured them all and brought them to orgimar.
also btw sylvanas loves the manabomb idea, just niot the timing, she wanted to use it at a better time.

[Deleted]

Initially she reacts with betrayal. But when Nathanos explains they're not rebelling but just handling day-to-day affairs she's mollified and calms down. She's upset, again, when she learns they're not hot to trot on the immortality train but Nathanos reminds her, and I'll remind you, that she gave them Free Will and they're exercising it.

She could've mind-controlled them and had actual meat-shield slaves (Still might if she winds up going raid boss since even that might not be a bridge too far if she's really threatened and goes off the deep end) but she didn't. She sees them as people...

Which is more than you can say for the Alliance.

This is the reason this whole free will is utter bullcrap. At the first mention of a different opinion Sylvanas feels betrayed and upset. Why would that be? Maybe because she doesn't want her pet zombies to think? She just wants them to be there to prolong her life.

She does not see them as people. She keeps them to protect her. And what about the Alliance? They don't see rotting walking corpses as people? Oh the humanity.

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It's the same with Azeroth. I play Alliance, but there are plenty of blinded idiots in this faction. My character (Paladin, now the leader of the Silver Hand which accepts all Paladins) would not discount or fight the Horde simply because of their races or affiliations. As a Paladin, my character would fight users of the Void who were on the Alliance sooner than Light users who happened to be Horde. There's not a universe in which my Paladin would align with Void Elves...yet, that's what my faction leaders are doing...

Yes, but would your paladin fight greedy goblins literally bleeding your planet dry?