Why will Mage tower and Mythic Plus appearances be Unobtainable post Legion?

[Deleted]

nobody give a damn about difficulty - the reason for this is 1 and only 1 - so people keep being subbed during lack of content due to end of expansion

without this they know their numbers would plummet down to 100-200k subs

Thats a big doomsday assumption

[SirCowdog]

Okay.

You used an example from real life as a justification for "Just do it when it's actual". You said "It's the natural way of things."

I'm simply pointing out that videogames don't have to follow natural rules. They don't have to be subject to the same "natural" restrictions as real life.

Yes, there is - exclusiveness.

You're just using circular logic. Making something exclusive and then using the rationalization that it's better because it's exclusive doesn't actually say anything. Maybe you'd like to try explaining WHY making it exclusive makes it better?

Blizzard even add pets for them, so you could play more. Simple as that.
They're also reducing chance for the last mythic/heroic boss mounts for a reason.

And what reason is that? Simply saying "Because Blizzard said so" isn't an explanation. Why do YOU think it's better?

Also, reduced chance for drops is still better than no chance at all.

Because that won't be the same thing. I don't want anyone to have it easier to earn the same reward than I did and I think that would be fair.
Anyway, there's a difference between raids and challenges. One is giving you gear for progression, one is giving you exclusive T-mog.

And yet it's already easier to "earn the same reward" that people did in raids when they were current. Your argument is inconsistent. It's ok for people to farm old raids but not old challenges, even though the raids were arguably more difficult. Why? Basically all you're saying here is that you want to have things that other people can't ever get. For reasons. Because "Exclusive".

Again I have to ask: How does making things unavailable actually benefit the game? All it does it promote an artificial sense of superiority in a small fraction of the playerbase, while simultaneously removing content that could otherwise be used to keep CURRENT players interested.

As I wrote above - challenges are pure T-mog thing. They're made to be exclusive. You cannot really compare raids to challenges, they're totally different things. They're named challenges for a reason.

I can absolutely compare them. They're both "difficult" content with rewards. In fact CMs and Mage Tower challenges aren't even nearly as difficult as heroic raiding, much less mythic raiding or M+15. In fact, some of the WoD raids that people solo today are probably still more difficult than current Mage Tower challenges, despite being content from older expansions.

You keep saying "because exclusive" without actually explaining how this benefits anyone except the Haves vs the Have-nots.

I'm perfectly willing to reconsider my point of view on this if someone has a compelling argument. But really all you're saying is that "Blue is better than Red because you can't get Blue anymore". So lets take your argument to the extreme. What if WoW shut down tomorrow. Would you still say "WoW is better than any new game because you can't play WoW any more." ?

That would hurt players who earned them in a fair way.
...and as I wrote before - you cannot do them in a fair way again(differenct scaling/ilvl/abilities/talents etc. etc.) - so keep them exclusive.

Oh noes! My sense of accomplishment is being harmed! People are getting the same things that I got! WOE! SADNESS!!

If the extent of your argument in favor of keeping these skins locked away is some ambiguous fear that players MIGHT feel like their accomplishments are being diminished, then all I can do is point to EVERY SINGLE piece of content that has been outleveled and outgeared over the last 12 years of WoW. Under your point of view, it's not fair for ANY piece of appearance to be given to anyone unless they play under the exact same conditions as when it was originally released. We might as well throw the entire xmog system in the trash in that case.

And I really shouldn't have to repeat this: But your entire argument also goes out the window in light of the BMAH, which makes "exclusive" appearance available for gold: LITERALLY the least challenging thing to acquire in the game. :/

[Deleted]

I'm perfectly willing to reconsider my point of view on this if someone has a compelling argument. But really all you're saying is that "Blue is better than Red because you can't get Blue anymore". So lets take your argument to the extreme. What if WoW shut down tomorrow. Would you still say "WoW is better than any new game because you can't play WoW any more." ?

At this point you are starting to make little sense :S
If WoW shuts down you cant show it off to other people. WoW is not an object. Thats a bad example.

If production of a game stopped and they only made 150 000 copies of it...yes, it would be a "collector item" to show off.
I mean, the actual box and CD of a playable game.

I was a "old game collector" when i was younger. I have some relics that im proud off and i made business selling some rare games.
I understand the "emotional value" of "rare things".

You on the other hand don't seem to grasp this.
I'm sure you were never a collector of any kind of items.

[PraisCthulhu]

Because they are actually a bit of a challenge to get. They are the Legion versions of the Mists and WoD challenge mode appearances, which were also made unobtainable at the end of their respective expansions. Yes, both things get significantly easier with gear, but to clear the mage tower or get your M+15, you still have to learn and correctly execute mechanics (or pay heaps of gold in the case of the +15 I suppose). Your average LFR player isn't going to be able to clear the Twins challenge if they don't learn mechanics.

BfA will certainly have its own challenge based transmog items.

[Eazy]

You're just using circular logic. Making something exclusive and then using the rationalization that it's better because it's exclusive doesn't actually say anything. Maybe you'd like to try explaining WHY making it exclusive makes it better?

They're showing that you put some effort in getting those.

Oh noes! My sense of accomplishment is being harmed!

It's not about sense of accomplishment, it's about justice and fairness.

People are getting the same things that I got! WOE! SADNESS!!

You don't really have to sounds like an edgy angry teenager, you can have a proper discussion without using such phrases, seriously.

If the extent of your argument in favor of keeping these skins locked away is some ambiguous fear that players MIGHT feel like their accomplishments are being diminished, then all I can do is point to EVERY SINGLE piece of content that has been outleveled and outgeared over the last 12 years of WoW. Under your point of view, it's not fair for ANY piece of appearance to be given to anyone unless they play under the exact same conditions as when it was originally released. We might as well throw the entire xmog system in the trash in that case.

Not really. Because every content =/= challenges. Don't use that "I can outlevel/outgear old content" because they weren't challenges. They weren't Mage Tower Challenge, they weren't Challenge Modes. So your argument is pretty much invalid.

And I really shouldn't have to repeat this: But your entire argument also goes out the window in light of the BMAH, which makes "exclusive" appearance available for gold: LITERALLY the least challenging thing to acquire in the game. :/

Why?

I didn't say that I agree with BMAH. Well, it's kinda ufair that people who buy/farm/grind gold are receiving exclusive t-mogs(such as T3) - compared to other people who were Vanilla Raiders, but I'm not going to cry on the forums about it.

[MatadorMedia]

TL DR

Because the Mage Tower is a solo Challenge Mode. None of the cosmetic rewards from Challenge Modes have continued after the next expansion is released. I still wear my MoP Challenger gearset on my Warlock everywhere; it's nice because everyone knows I did some awesome PVE at level. Same with Gladiator PVP mounts and season ratings.

[SirCowdog]

They're showing that you put some effort in getting those.

Aha! So now we're getting somewhere!

Going by that statement, would you then agree that it would be acceptable to make the exclusivity based on "putting in some effort" instead of just logging in during the right period of time? Wouldn't it better if the barrier to obtaining those appearances was overcoming a challenge rather than just playing during a limited span?

It's not about sense of accomplishment, it's about justice and fairness.

Which is EXACTLY what most of us who want these appearances re-released. Getting the appearances should be based on something fair. Like overcoming a challenge. How is being told "Too bad you can't get it no matter what you do" fair or just?

You don't really have to sounds like an edgy angry teenager, you can have a proper discussion without using such phrases, seriously.

I'm putting the argument in it's proper context. The way I posted that is exactly how the point comes across when someone claims their accomplishments might be harmed.

Not really. Because every content =/= challenges. Don't use that "I can outlevel/outgear old content" because they weren't challenges. They weren't Mage Tower Challenge, they weren't Challenge Modes. So your argument is pretty much invalid.

Are you really basing your entire point of view on the NAME of the content? You're saying that because the content was named "Challenge Mode" that somehow it's difficulty is different than other content?

My argument isn't invalid because of that. It's like saying that my argument about cars is invalid because I didn't call it a Ferrari, and instead called it a "sports car". Come on now, you can do better than that.

Raids, especially Mythic raids, are VERY challenging when they're current content. MORE challenging and difficult than any MoP/WoD/Legion "Challenge Mode". The point being made here is that it's inconsistent to say that CMs are special because of their name while other, more difficult content, is perfectly ok to continue overpowering with progression. Locking away rewards from CMs "because exclusive" or "because name" actually isn't a very good argument. It's tantamount to saying "Because reasons". It's a non-argument.

Why?

I didn't say that I agree with BMAH. Well, it's kinda ufair that people who buy/farm/grind gold are receiving exclusive t-mogs(such as T3) - compared to other people who were Vanilla Raiders, but I'm not going to cry on the forums about it.

Why? Because your entire platform has been that it isn't fair for people to obtain these items if they didn't face the same challenges as you. I've repeatedly shown how that point of view is inconsistent. If you REALLy believe that people shouldn't obtain items and rewards unless they play the game exactly the same way you did, then you should also be arguing for the complete and total lockout of EVERY piece of content once it's no longer current. And I don't see you doing that.

What it boils down to is this: Why are some piece of content locked and some aren't? Because reasons? Because "exclusive"? If that's all you've got then I can only come to the conclusion that you don't actually have a valid argument, defense, or explanation for your point of view.

[Deleted]

What it boils down to is this: Why are some piece of content locked and some aren't? Because reasons? Because "exclusive"? If that's all you've got then I can only come to the conclusion that you don't actually have a valid argument, defense, or explanation for your point of view.

Why do Collector Editions exist?
Why do private parties exist?
Why do limited editions exist?
Why do Exclusvie Communities exist?
Why do Collectors exist?
Why do Ferrari cars exist?
Why do Exclusive Groups exist?

Do you even understand real life?
You cant even grasp the reason why this stuff exist in real life...how can you understand it in a videogame?

[darklogrus]

Didn't they say that, like mogs, the artifact skins would be account wide? You could earn them on your, say human warrior right now, and they'd be unlocked on any warrior once they levelled up to Legion level?

For new players, the incentive is if you're on the wall about whether you'll start playing now or later, you hear about something time sensitive that might tip the scales into wanting to start playing now to get it. For current players, it makes you want to not unsub so you don't miss something.

I hven't come across anything from the devs talking about this. An to be real for a sec, I can't really take anything they say at face value anyways until after its officially in the game. So until my Nightborne BM can equip my MM's weapon appearance. Im going to have to go with no..

You seem to lump new players into the same boat as former players. How do you know that some of these new players wouldnt be coming into BfA as a brand spanking new player. Seems silly that a person couldnt get a recent skin, but could go back 15 yrs and get a whole set for a couple mins of work..

Guy who doesn't play: "Hey bro, playing that game you wanted to me to play, WoW? Not sure I'm into it. Whacha doin' right now"?
Guy who plays: "Ah, playing on my druid."
Guy who doesn't play: "Oh wow, you look awesome, that glowy cat. What is that?"
Guy who plays: "This is an alternate form I unlocked. When the xpac comes out next year it won't be possible to get anymore."
Guy who doesn't play: "Man, I want that. Better go make an account before I miss it."

I dont know, they had no issue going back and giving Feral other ways of getting the flame cat. Im not upset because I earned the staff back when it was relevant. Im not upset because I went back and farmed the seeds. An im still not upset then any brand new BfA kitty can go back and farm the toy. To have the flame kitty appearance..

[darklogrus]

Why do Collector Editions exist?
Why do private parties exist?
Why do limited editions exist?
Why do Exclusvie Communities exist?
Why do Collectors exist?
Why do Ferrari cars exist?
Why do Exclusive Groups exist?

Do you even understand real life?
You cant even grasp the reason why this stuff exist in real life...how can you understand it in a videogame?

1. Money
2. Circle Jerking
3. Money
4. Circle Jerking
5. To many reasons
6. Because of E. Ferrari
7. Circle Jerking.

- - - Updated - - -

Just no. Do it when its current or get left out. Same deal as WoD and MoP challenge mode skins. They are called challenge mode skins for a reason, it wouldnt be a challenge when you out level the content 10 levels and 200ilvls.

They why not do that with everything?

[netherflame]

Appearances give no added benefit to your character, there is no reason you HAVE to get it. Nothing is lost or gained in terms of power while using those appearances. I fail to see why people are upset about these, I'd love to go get the challenge mode appearances on my characters that I leveled up after Pandaria, unfortunately thats no an option so I don't sweat it. Move on.

[Tiwack]

Don't care about the reward just let the challenge remain for players old/new still exploring the world when Legion has passed.

[darklogrus]

They do that with everything of value. Mythic mounts are 100% drops when content is current and after new expac the drop rate is 1% not completely gone but takes effort to farm. Pvp gladiator mounts and titles from past are unobtainable etc. So stop whining and start doing challenge modes if you want them. GIT GUD!

It takes no effort to farm a Mythic mount after an expansion is over it just takes repetition. Like i said before, if its ok to exclusive some things and not others then you either need to do it for everything or none of it. Besides if anyone is whining it seems to be on your side of the fence, possibly because of the lack of circle jerking. I for one could care less if someone wants to go get a Mythic mount I farmed when it was current. Go back to TBC and buy a set of gear that took 3min to gather tokens while it took me weeks, the more power to them..

[infinitemeridian]

I don't see why they can't just scale them now that they have the technology.

[TheEaterofSouls]

why not just scale them to 120 in BfA? Same amount of challenge

[RoKPaNda]

Why do Collector Editions exist?
Why do private parties exist?
Why do limited editions exist?
Why do Exclusvie Communities exist?
Why do Collectors exist?
Why do Ferrari cars exist?
Why do Exclusive Groups exist?

Do you even understand real life?
You cant even grasp the reason why this stuff exist in real life...how can you understand it in a videogame?

You're right those things are equivalent in the sense that nobody gives a fuck about them lol.

[Gurluas]

I recently found out I can never get that Draenei railgun rifle for my Draenei hunter, and my heart was broken.
I think they should make a new tint you can obtain post-Legion and keep the original tints for the challengers only.

[Volitar]

Doesn't make sense to me, all the prestige if there was any to begin with is already gone with having 2 raid tiers of gear to make it faceroll.

[darklogrus]

Doesn't make sense to me, all the prestige if there was any to begin with is already gone with having 2 raid tiers of gear to make it faceroll.

Yup, your not hearing anyone who did it at 885 whining people are doing it at 985..

[Thrif]

I don't see why they can't just scale them now that they have the technology.

why not just scale them to 120 in BfA? Same amount of challenge

Classes change. A lot. These challenges are designed around your current set of abilities, removing the wrong one might make it impossible for a class. So either they allow that and gets overwhelmed by complaints by people who can't do the challenges, or they need to rework 36 outdated scenarios everytime they want to make class changes.

Not to mention all the whine from people who will have it more difficult. "Why is it scaling to 920, people could farm 940 easily, bwaa bwaa."

Just a few examples, but I can see quite some issues with trying to scale it with later expansions, not to mention a huge amount of subs that'll drop because they can come back and do it later instead of needing to do it before the new expansion. There's literally only downsides for Blizz to even consider it.