Multple Raids or 1 Raid with Difficulties?

[HuxNeva]

Here's the thing, People do normal for the gear to get tier sets then most start progression on HC through mythic. Honestly I have nothing against there being an LFR for the people who have no idea how to play that's perfectly fine. I think Normal should be purged ultimately due to the fact that it's just an extra difficulty for no reason.

I could easily mythic raid, but choose not to because personally I only raid to get the kill. It doesn't help that the current story absolutely bores me so I have little interest. Even if I did, I did HC Emerald Nightmare and although, yes I had fun the idea of doing the same fights again only harder is absolutely boring and drab. Even if there are extra mechanics, It's not a different fight just a different strat. It's the same room, the same general fight only this time you're wiping.

If we absolutely NEED everyone to be able to participate (I don't see the point of that but people insist) Make it available on LFR after the next content patch.

Here is the picture I have of a 'typical' guild:
- N week 1, see the fights get some gear
- HC week 2 to farm, your normal progress game. during this time you might clear N once a week as well to back-fill missing tier/trinkets or start alts
- optional: post HC clear, get a team for M, and dabble into the first few bosses.

The real M progression community is rather small (<100.000 people). N and especially HC is where the bulk is.
LFR is fine. I think a lot of non-raiders would like LFR to be a bit more challenging, but unless there is a way to solve the afk/griefer problem that comes with queing, it's not going to happen.

[Corroc]

because even in TBC, you had guilds that weren't good enough to kill Vashj, etc. doing the first BT bosses for the loot pinata.

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Temple_attunement

To refresh your memory. BT attument required you to kill boss in Hyjal which required you to kill both Vashj and KT. This was removed in Sunwell patch but originally you had to attune yourself with SSC and Eye first before you could be able to do the attunement for BT.

[Deleted]

I dont understand how can people see acessible raiding as good thing. Yes lot of people can see raid contet. But even more people quit gamr right after they finish one of the difficulty settings. Majority plays to kill end game boss and quit gamw after. 1 difficulty would force players to progress hardest bosses and no players would not quit becous game would become less acessible. Acessability ia what makes players quit as they finish content way too fast.

[Corroc]

I dont understand how can people see acessible raiding as good thing. Yes lot of people can see raid contet. But even more people quit gamr right after they finish one of the difficulty settings. Majority plays to kill end game boss and quit gamw after. 1 difficulty would force players to progress hardest bosses and no players would not quit becous game would become less acessible. Acessability ia what makes players quit as they finish content way too fast.

I see people quitting alot more due to other reasons then raiding.

[Phuongvi]

Theres too many, Ive lost count and I dont know anything about the raid.
Too much confusion

[crusadernero]

If you had asked me 5-10 years ago, I would say raids with only normal & Heroic(mythic).

Now, I dont mind at all having lfr, normal, hc and mythic. I play wow often, but I cant commit to a guild raid or prep for hc/mythic raids anymore. I do the raids on LFR mode or normal. I make it a goal to clear every raid atleast on normal(I know its not high goal, but it suits my playstyle now).

Im glad the game has several difficulties for all sorts of players.

[RoKPaNda]

Here is the picture I have of a 'typical' guild:
- N week 1, see the fights get some gear
- HC week 2 to farm, your normal progress game. during this time you might clear N once a week as well to back-fill missing tier/trinkets or start alts
- optional: post HC clear, get a team for M, and dabble into the first few bosses.

The real M progression community is rather small (<100.000 people). N and especially HC is where the bulk is.
LFR is fine. I think a lot of non-raiders would like LFR to be a bit more challenging, but unless there is a way to solve the afk/griefer problem that comes with queing, it's not going to happen.

You would be surprised how many guilds take multiple weeks to clear even normal. I don't really understand it, I don't really understand not facerolling Heroic, but there are far more people that raid any other given difficulty than Mythic as their endgame. as you said, Mythic raiding's community is quite small. We're an extreme minority.

I dont understand how can people see acessible raiding as good thing. Yes lot of people can see raid contet. But even more people quit gamr right after they finish one of the difficulty settings. Majority plays to kill end game boss and quit gamw after. 1 difficulty would force players to progress hardest bosses and no players would not quit becous game would become less acessible. Acessability ia what makes players quit as they finish content way too fast.

People have quit during content lulls since forever, it's just that now there are no new players coming in to replace them. Having only one difficulty would be catastrophic for raiding. We'd have filler bullshit tiers like ToC/Firelands against because they would again not be able to justify all the resources due to low participation. That huge majority that makes up LFR and Normal? They're not going to jump to another raid difficulty, they'll just say fuck it. It wouldn't force them to raid. Pre-LFR the majority of players that would later become LFR raiders never set foot in a raid.

Anyone who is honest with themselves and who raids Mythic realizes that since the introduction of LFR the end-game hardmode raids have gotten better, more resources spent on raids, etc. I for one have no interest in going back to lazy raids, so no thanks. Keep them accessible.

[zephid]

Simple question,

Do people actually like how raiding is at the moment where we get 1 raid with way too many difficulties.

Or would we prefer 2 - 3 smaller raids of varied difficulty.

Personally I like the old model, Normal + Heroic.
If we add LFR to that it's obviously LFR - Normal (flex) - Heroic (Mythic level)

I prefer the real "old model", one difficulty, like it was back in vanilla/tbc.

[Soon-TM]

I prefer the real "old model", one difficulty, like it was back in vanilla/tbc.

Same here. The BC model was perfect for me, even if my guild barely managed to beat M'uru (God, how I hate that guy) before the WotLK prepatch.

[Crillam]

My issue has always been, I want to see and beat the content on one or maybe 2 difficulties. 4 is just too many it get's old.

You don't have to beat it in all 4 difficulties... You can skip LFR and normal, beat in on HC and mythic.

[Ifeanychukwu]

I would rather go back to 10/25m fixed raid sizes with normal/heroic difficulties. I don't care either way about raid finder but I feel like 10/25m raids allowed for guilds to more easily form and manage groups. Flex difficulties are nice but I've been in too many groups where we waited far too long for another healer or dps to get to that flex sweet spot.

[Deleted]

You would be surprised how many guilds take multiple weeks to clear even normal. I don't really understand it, I don't really understand not facerolling Heroic, but there are far more people that raid any other given difficulty than Mythic as their endgame. as you said, Mythic raiding's community is quite small. We're an extreme minority.



People have quit during content lulls since forever, it's just that now there are no new players coming in to replace them. Having only one difficulty would be catastrophic for raiding. We'd have filler bullshit tiers like ToC/Firelands against because they would again not be able to justify all the resources due to low participation. That huge majority that makes up LFR and Normal? They're not going to jump to another raid difficulty, they'll just say fuck it. It wouldn't force them to raid. Pre-LFR the majority of players that would later become LFR raiders never set foot in a raid.

Anyone who is honest with themselves and who raids Mythic realizes that since the introduction of LFR the end-game hardmode raids have gotten better, more resources spent on raids, etc. I for one have no interest in going back to lazy raids, so no thanks. Keep them accessible.

No since introduction of LFR raidin scenes start dieing. Everybody just run LFR see content then quit game afterwards. Nobady cares anymore about killing exact same content in higher difficulty mods. It is boring. We used to progress from raid to raid. Now we all just pushing difficulty silder which is boring becouse content is same. Huge amounth of players quit raiding specualy beocuse LFR offered far more efficient way to see content than spending hours and hours progressing. And yes game have to force players into raid by removing accessability. It is good for the game to have exclusive content. Nobady will stay playing your game if you let everybody win.

[Lynexia]

You don't have to beat it in all 4 difficulties... You can skip LFR and normal, beat in on HC and mythic.

I think the question I really ask with this is why?

Anyone raiding mythic is likely going to have to do LFR or normal or risk being booted for not attempting to get BiS (non-HC/Mythic version).
At least in the past, with BiS, half the time you could get it while running the weekly normal with the guild and if it still didn't drop it was an "oh well"

With mythic+ being something I can use to keep myself personally challenged, and without having to worry about people raging in discord, people not showing up for raids, having to lead 10 - 20 people, Dealing with slow learners sometimes. Oh and lets not forget finding a guild to begin with.. When you more or less play alone (I have very few friends left who play and most of them are casual now) nobody wants you unless you're "Experienced" (aka Nobody wants a player who has been un-subbed most of the xpac like me).

With all the options they have added it makes anything above normal basically more trouble than it's worth which is why I think LFR or Normal need to go.

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No since introduction of LFR raidin scenes start dieing. Everybody just run LFR see content then quit game afterwards. Nobady cares anymore about killing exact same content in higher difficulty mods. It is boring. We used to progress from raid to raid. Now we all just pushing difficulty silder which is boring becouse content is same. Huge amounth of players quit raiding specualy beocuse LFR offered far more efficient way to see content than spending hours and hours progressing. And yes game have to force players into raid by removing accessability. It is good for the game to have exclusive content. Nobady will stay playing your game if you let everybody win.

This is more or less my point, and I'm a great example of this.

I chose to not deal with the stresses of raiding because I simply don't need to. I can see the content by clicking a button and waiting 20 minutes.

A lot of people go on about how it's better gear, but people who raid for gear are very strange. Gear was always supposed to be a way to reach your goals, for me that was seeing the content. Now I can do that straight away even after taking 6 months off the game... WHY?

But I digress, the way it is now is absolutely rubbish. People should have to put in effort to reach a goal.

EDIT: Funny thing is, I am a pretty damn good player. I killed H ICC back in the day when raiding felt real and I'm better at the game now then i ever was back then and now if you're lucky I'll be face pulling mobs in +15s just for a challenge....

[Scottyjscizzle]

Wish it would go back to bc raiding, i miss having multiple raids in a tier with a variable level of difficulty. Tired of having one raid to grind repeatedly until the next one.

[brbshower]

My issue has always been, I want to see and beat the content on one or maybe 2 difficulties. 4 is just too many it get's old.

Nobody forces you to run LFR, and I doubt you're clearing or even doing mythic like the other 99% of the playerbase isn't...so if you want to get all technical, there are 2 difficulties. Normal/Heroic...and they all lived happily ever after /thread

[Ealyssa]

Or would we prefer 2 - 3 smaller raids of varied difficulty.

That would be a stupid idea.

Making a raid is a lot of work. Making different difficulties is really easy.

[Lynexia]

Nobody forces you to run LFR, and I doubt you're clearing or even doing mythic like the other 99% of the playerbase isn't...so if you want to get all technical, there are 2 difficulties. Normal/Heroic...and they all lived happily ever after /thread

See My post above, Simply put any guild doing serious raiding flat out expects you to not only clear the lower content if you don't have certain pieces of gear they also expect you to do it yourself and boot you if you don't. This is a stupid argument. If you actually want to down bosses you need to make sure your as best geared as possible at all times.

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That would be a stupid idea.

Making a raid is a lot of work. Making different difficulties is really easy.

If I can construct and write scripts for challenging bosses on my own using software for other games, I'm sure blizzard could re-use some assests to come up with 1 big raid and 3 small raids with their team. granted I know there's a lot more work than I would be able to accomplish in a solo project but they literally have hundreds on the team. Not to mention they have done this in the past.. The way they do it now is sheer laziness.

[Marrilaife]

Anyone raiding mythic is likely going to have to do LFR or normal or risk being booted for not attempting to get BiS (non-HC/Mythic version).

Never seen a person "being booted" for not running LFR. In mythic guilds, that theoretically should care. You are living on some fantasy land. Guilds that want to speed up gearing split run heroic. That's the optimal way atm and not LFR that is closed for the first week and has 3 bosses open on the second and third week and after that most of serious mythic guilds are gonna be geared and well into mythic. LFR is useless to them. It serves a completely different audience.

No since introduction of LFR raidin scenes start dieing. Everybody just run LFR see content then quit game afterwards. Nobady cares anymore about killing exact same content in higher difficulty mods. It is boring. We used to progress from raid to raid. Now we all just pushing difficulty silder which is boring becouse content is same. Huge amounth of players quit raiding specualy beocuse LFR offered far more efficient way to see content than spending hours and hours progressing. And yes game have to force players into raid by removing accessability.

Most stupid assumption ever. "We used" you mean the same sub-10% that raids mythic now as they raided in the past through 1 difficulty. The LFR crowd is another 40%+ on top of that single digit number who never raided before. Anyway I can open the group finder and see those "nobody cares anymore" as I scroll through pages of normal and heroic pugs. Several months after raid opened. The idea you can "force players" is stupid as well, they can just unsub if the game doesn't provide them what they want as there are many other games they can choose from nowadays. People spout these concepts around all the time that you can "force" players to raid, "force" players to be social, "force players" to become better and it simply doesn't work. You can encourage them, teach them, but if they don't want to take it - they will just walk away. This is entertainment, not slavery. Nobody can be forced to anything.

If we absolutely NEED everyone to be able to participate (I don't see the point of that but people insist) Make it available on LFR after the next content patch.

I don't see the point of barring 80-90% of the playerbase from big chunk of content until it's obsolete. Isn't it enough they block last boss from LFR crowd for 2,5 months now people demand it being blocked for 5+ months? What do you really gain by postulating "keep casuals out of raids"?

[Jastall]

I would love to see a re-introduction of raids like the ones I bolded. Short relatively easy instances were fun for the alts on weekends. Good times back in the day.

That's basically been replaced by World Bosses.

[Crillam]

I think the question I really ask with this is why?

Anyone raiding mythic is likely going to have to do LFR or normal or risk being booted for not attempting to get BiS (non-HC/Mythic version).
At least in the past, with BiS, half the time you could get it while running the weekly normal with the guild and if it still didn't drop it was an "oh well"

With mythic+ being something I can use to keep myself personally challenged, and without having to worry about people raging in discord, people not showing up for raids, having to lead 10 - 20 people, Dealing with slow learners sometimes. Oh and lets not forget finding a guild to begin with.. When you more or less play alone (I have very few friends left who play and most of them are casual now) nobody wants you unless you're "Experienced" (aka Nobody wants a player who has been un-subbed most of the xpac like me).

With all the options they have added it makes anything above normal basically more trouble than it's worth which is why I think LFR or Normal need to go.

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This is more or less my point, and I'm a great example of this.

I chose to not deal with the stresses of raiding because I simply don't need to. I can see the content by clicking a button and waiting 20 minutes.

A lot of people go on about how it's better gear, but people who raid for gear are very strange. Gear was always supposed to be a way to reach your goals, for me that was seeing the content. Now I can do that straight away even after taking 6 months off the game... WHY?

But I digress, the way it is now is absolutely rubbish. People should have to put in effort to reach a goal.

EDIT: Funny thing is, I am a pretty damn good player. I killed H ICC back in the day when raiding felt real and I'm better at the game now then i ever was back then and now if you're lucky I'll be face pulling mobs in +15s just for a challenge....

Because blizzard wants to cater to everyone. Bad players and good, those who got time to spend and those who log in twice a week.
I do not agree with what they are doing, but they should really try to force people out of LFR and into real raiding.
You can more or less join LFR now, afk the whole thing and get loot. Then we have the fun bosses like Kil'Jaeden who recked almost all LFR grps, those are fun to watch.