The Brexit aftermath thread

[Kallisto]

I mean we are mostly talking about the UK here though and in the UK you do have other parties beyond the Conservatives and Labour.

True but SNP/Plaid are too localised. Lib Dems don't have support and Greens might as well not exist. Only time you should vote for LD/Green in England if you're left of centre voter is if Voting for them doesn't stop Labour beating the conservative. While right of centre voters just have conservative. Essentially for most areas making it a choice between conservative and Labour.

[Huehuecoyotl]

"Right, this is what we want. We want a container, and the container has to be completely 100% water-tight. The only liquid getting into that container is going to be good old British liquid. None of that foreign rubbish. Just British. Okay?"

"Very well, I think that's clear. Anything else?"

"Yes. It needs to have a hole in the bottom."

"Wait, what? I thought you wanted it to be water-tight?"

"We do, 100% completely sealed. With a hole in the bottom. That absolutely has to be there, no question."

"So you want the hole plugged with something then?"

"Nope. No plugs, we put anything in the hole it would cause problems. It has to be a 100% complete no barriers hole in the bottom. Is that clear?"

"So, just to play this back. You want a container that is 100% water-tight, so that you have complete control over the liquid that goes into the container. And it has to have a hole in the bottom that is unplugged. Do I have that right?"

"Yes, that's it. When can you have it ready for us?"

The Brexit negotiations summed up, with particular reference to Ireland. I'm genuinely struggling to see how we can portray ourselves as a grown-up country when we're behaving like this.

[Deleted]

"Right, this is what we want. We want a container, and the container has to be completely 100% water-tight. The only liquid getting into that container is going to be good old British liquid. None of that foreign rubbish. Just British. Okay?"

"Very well, I think that's clear. Anything else?"

"Yes. It needs to have a hole in the bottom."

"Wait, what? I thought you wanted it to be water-tight?"

"We do, 100% completely sealed. With a hole in the bottom. That absolutely has to be there, no question."

"So you want the hole plugged with something then?"

"Nope. No plugs, we put anything in the hole it would cause problems. It has to be a 100% complete no barriers hole in the bottom. Is that clear?"

"So, just to play this back. You want a container that is 100% water-tight, so that you have complete control over the liquid that goes into the container. And it has to have a hole in the bottom that is unplugged. Do I have that right?"

"Yes, that's it. When can you have it ready for us?"

The Brexit negotiations summed up, with particular reference to Ireland. I'm genuinely struggling to see how we can portray ourselves as a grown-up country when we're behaving like this.

Simplest answer, Brexiteers aren't grown ups, they're overgrown children who shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[Demolitia]

"Right, this is what we want. We want a container, and the container has to be completely 100% water-tight. The only liquid getting into that container is going to be good old British liquid. None of that foreign rubbish. Just British. Okay?"

"Very well, I think that's clear. Anything else?"

"Yes. It needs to have a hole in the bottom."

"Wait, what? I thought you wanted it to be water-tight?"

"We do, 100% completely sealed. With a hole in the bottom. That absolutely has to be there, no question."

"So you want the hole plugged with something then?"

"Nope. No plugs, we put anything in the hole it would cause problems. It has to be a 100% complete no barriers hole in the bottom. Is that clear?"

"So, just to play this back. You want a container that is 100% water-tight, so that you have complete control over the liquid that goes into the container. And it has to have a hole in the bottom that is unplugged. Do I have that right?"

"Yes, that's it. When can you have it ready for us?"

The Brexit negotiations summed up, with particular reference to Ireland. I'm genuinely struggling to see how we can portray ourselves as a grown-up country when we're behaving like this.

To be honest you make it look like on top of having unrealistic expectations, the UK was actually prepared.
It went more like this:
Davis asked for a barrel, which he got. That's hard brexit.
He then went home, got blackmailed by the SNP into going back to ask for a hole in the barrel. That's EFTA. To which the EU said ok.
He went back home proudly waving the new agreement only to be blackmailed again by the SNP and brexiteers because it's not good enough.
Back to Brussels Davis went, asking if by any chance we could throw in a valve into the deal just in case. To which the EU agreed.
Happy Davis went back home, waving in his new shiny paper. That's the december agreement
Brexiteers went all out, saying this wouldn't do and sending Davis back home to Brussels.
Now the UK is asking whether, by any chance, we could find scientists who could bend the rules of fluid mechanics to make water flow only one way, when needed.

[FlatBootyJudy]

I hope Brexit continues, why is it taking so long!

[Edge-]

I hope Brexit continues, why is it taking so long!

Because it's not a simple process and the UK was woefully unprepared to initiate it.

International politics and trade are pretty complicated.

[Demolitia]

Because it's not a simple process and the UK was woefully unprepared to initiate it.

International politics and trade are pretty complicated.

Especially when you are plagued with internal political struggles.

[Deleted]

I hope Brexit continues, why is it taking so long!

Brexit won't finish until 2019 at the earliest.

[ranzino]

PM May and Taoiseach Varadcar and the attempt to square a circle:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...talks-with-may

If May (under pressure by her own party) wants to terminate the december deal, UK can forget any deal. or will she bark at the backbenchers and slap them with that forecast and silence them for good ?

[Demolitia]

PM May and Taoiseach Varadcar and the attempt to square a circle:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...talks-with-may

If May (under pressure by her own party) wants to terminate the december deal, UK can forget any deal. or will she bark at the backbenchers and slap them with that forecast and silence them for good ?

I thought the masterplan was to come up with whatever deal, inadequate though it may be, and submit it to both house with the warning that this is the deal or else there is armaggedon?

[ranzino]

As for how undemocratic the EU is, Verhofstadt actually suggested that the EU is ready to allow Northern Ireland to continue to elect MEPs in the event that a solution is reached where they stay in the Single Market.

naah, they like to be out. otherwise they cannot bark at EU how undemocratic EP is !

Now really: would May "sacrifice" NI to the good graces of EU to save the GFA ? it means soft Brexit and done.

[Noradin]

I hope Brexit continues, why is it taking so long!

Why would you want a comedy to end early?
The whole point of having it is to spent time.

[ranzino]

Why would you want a comedy to end early?
The whole point of having it is to spent time.

you want comedy ? beware what you wish for......
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ferendum-video

Yessss ! bring it on !!

[Demolitia]

Why would you want a comedy to end early?
The whole point of having it is to spent time.

A tragicomedy

- - - Updated - - -

you want comedy ? beware what you wish for......
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ferendum-video

Yessss ! bring it on !!

Somebody has to explain the point and benefits of "shadow government" to me

[Noradin]

The “shadow government” is the opposition party. For example, Phillip Hammond is the chancellor of the exchequer in our current conservative government, his opposite number in the Labour Party, John McDonnel, is the shadow chancellor.

It only really makes sense in systems where there are only two viable parties people can vote for.
The purpose of the shadow government is to always provide a contrasting position how the opposition supposedly would have a better reaction to whatever situation the government happens to find itself facing.

[Deleted]

"Right, this is what we want. We want a container, and the container has to be completely 100% water-tight. The only liquid getting into that container is going to be good old British liquid. None of that foreign rubbish. Just British. Okay?"

"Very well, I think that's clear. Anything else?"

"Yes. It needs to have a hole in the bottom."

"Wait, what? I thought you wanted it to be water-tight?"

"We do, 100% completely sealed. With a hole in the bottom. That absolutely has to be there, no question."

"So you want the hole plugged with something then?"

"Nope. No plugs, we put anything in the hole it would cause problems. It has to be a 100% complete no barriers hole in the bottom. Is that clear?"

"So, just to play this back. You want a container that is 100% water-tight, so that you have complete control over the liquid that goes into the container. And it has to have a hole in the bottom that is unplugged. Do I have that right?"

"Yes, that's it. When can you have it ready for us?"

The Brexit negotiations summed up, with particular reference to Ireland. I'm genuinely struggling to see how we can portray ourselves as a grown-up country when we're behaving like this.

I think the easiest way of understanding the problem is thinking that the sort of co-operation in regards to borders is some sort of default state between (western) States, and basically that the EU is not the thing that makes Europe works, but rather, an unnecessary superstructure.
That's why they say bonkers things like that the US Canadian border isn't a hard border, even though there is god-damned photographic evidence of the hard border.

[Deleted]

I can see the scenario where in 5 years people don´t even know why they were leaving in the first place and the whole "negotiation" is just a paradigma that covers the news three times a week.

[Demolitia]

It only really makes sense in systems where there are only two viable parties people can vote for.
The purpose of the shadow government is to always provide a contrasting position how the opposition supposedly would have a better reaction to whatever situation the government happens to find itself facing.

Basically every minister is assigned a Captain Hindsight? That sounds productive.

- - - Updated - - -

Slightly unrelated but some good news for Greece to start the day.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...ce-brexit-vote

[Slant]

I guess we reached the point where we could only go up?

You've been going up for more than a year by now. This is what we meant when we said "austerity doesn't mean you starve". At some point, you'll start investing and reap the benefits. Now, the only thing you've got left to do is hang every politician from the next tree and install a Government that actually tackles corruption and tax evasion.

[Demolitia]

I guess we reached the point where we could only go up?

You could also have stayed down. It's nice to see some signs of recovery.