Sylvanas on the Buring of Teldrassil and Saurfang's Honor

[Deleted]

The more I read all of this, the more I feel like Blizz threw in a huge pile of BS for dataminers and now ppl spread it through different forums. Meanwhile Blizz develop an alternative direction of events that will go live.

Would be awesome. I already read too much spoilers. Meh.

[Deleted]

Right, all that money on development you're not going to use.

That would just make Blizzard an even shittier company wasting even more of your time and money.

Well you are just interpreting the datamines nothing more. At the moment everything is possible with the found "evidence" not just your wish.

[Deleted]

Warchief Sylvanas notwithstanding, Saurfang is NOT betraying the orcs, tauren or trolls. He might do some shenanigans with Anduin, but he will not abandon Orcs and the Horde to join Alliance.

It apears to me that after all the Sylvanas hype the Horde players were chanting during the last months are now seeing the consequences a Warchief Waifu will bring. And that is a bitter consequence.

As much as i despice Orcs, from a story perspective it would be a fresh wind and an interesting change.

[Manabomb]

I thank that is the most accurate description of what is really happening.

Ahhh denial, the sweetest and sublime of emotions. Keep it up hun, I love how much you squirm every time you think of the heavy possibility of it happening.

[Deleted]

I still can't believe how some people can flip like that... Saurfang defecting to the Alliance and Mag'har going to be an Alliance allied race, hope you and all your people are just kidding and joking, because man, how can anyone think that is possible... you sure are the ones that liked the last Star Wars film...

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So many people being totally sure about that joke of "Saurfang changing sides"... I mean, how is he, the most notably orc still in the Horde, gonna swap sides? It is just nonsense. He representates now orcs, he is the visible leader, and so many people still thinks that he's gonna run into Anduin's arms... please, stop with that. Same with the "Mag'har orcs for the Alliance"; is that supposed to have any sense? Purely senseless from a storytelling point of view; how are orcs supposed to be fighting other orcs? The essence of Warcraft has always been orcs vs humans, and it should always be. Horde people has been asking for "brown orcs" for years, and let me repeat, horde people who plays horde and who plays orcs. How the h*ll can people be asking for orcs in the alliance? Just play Horde if you want to play orcs. Of I wanna play humans or dwarfs I would just play Alliance, don't ask to mix up things, please.

Regarding Saurfang: he is the kind of "honorable guy" who just wants to die in battle. He lost his sons, he seems to have nothing left, so he just wants to die. Just go and watch the ingame cinetametic after he is defeated at Lordaeron: he just wants to die, but Anduin doesn't want him to die. He sure doesn't like or even trust Sylvanas, but he won't betray the Horde for that. After he is released, I'm sure he wants to speak with Anduin only because he feels in debt with him (or with his father for letting him recover Dranosh' corpse), and as an honorable warrior, he just don't want to escape, he wants to respond with honor to Anduin and wants to go to him to pay the debt, to be honorable; he's not the kind of guy that runs and breaks debts, like going to ask him for a execution or something, like "You got me, I'm not gonna run. I'm for the Horde. What now? Don't let me rotting in that cage".

I'm 99'9% sure that he is not going to swap sides or that bullsh*t so many people is wanting. He is going to come to us and keep his loyalty to the Horde, where he belongs.

(PD: sorry if I made any grammatical mistakes, English is not my first language :P)

[Manabomb]

Well you are just interpreting the datamines nothing more. At the moment everything is possible with the found "evidence" not just your wish.

I mean, isn't that the case with every single expansion? And you think they are dumb enough to go out of their way to develop multiple storylines at once just to throw people off of the "right" one? Sure.

This is fucking Blizzard we are talking about. That's about as conspiracy theorist as them actively monitoring your day to day play activity to adjust legendary drop rates so they know exactly when to throw you a bone to keep you playing.

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I still can't believe how some people can flip like that... Saurfang defecting to the Alliance and Mag'har going to be an Alliance allied race, hope you and all your people are just kidding and joking, because man, how can anyone think that is possible... you sure are the ones that liked the last Star Wars film...

- - - Updated - - -

So many people being totally sure about that joke of "Saurfang changing sides"... I mean, how is he, the most notably orc still in the Horde, gonna swap sides? It is just nonsense. He representates now orcs, he is the visible leader, and so many people still thinks that he's gonna run into Anduin's arms... please, stop with that. Same with the "Mag'har orcs for the Alliance"; is that supposed to have any sense? Purely senseless from a storytelling point of view; how are orcs supposed to be fighting other orcs? The essence of Warcraft has always been orcs vs humans, and it should always be. Horde people has been asking for "brown orcs" for years, and let me repeat, horde people who plays horde and who plays orcs. How the h*ll can people be asking for orcs in the alliance? Just play Horde if you want to play orcs. Of I wanna play humans or dwarfs I would just play Alliance, don't ask to mix up things, please.

Regarding Saurfang: he is the kind of "honorable guy" who just wants to die in battle. He lost his sons, he seems to have nothing left, so he just wants to die. Just go and watch the ingame cinetametic after he is defeated at Lordaeron: he just wants to die, but Anduin doesn't want him to die. He sure doesn't like or even trust Sylvanas, but he won't betray the Horde for that. After he is released, I'm sure he wants to speak with Anduin only because he feels in debt with him (or with his father for letting him recover Dranosh' corpse), and as an honorable warrior, he just don't want to escape, he wants to respond with honor to Anduin and wants to go to him to pay the debt, to be honorable; he's not the kind of guy that runs and breaks debts, like going to ask him for a execution or something, like "You got me, I'm not gonna run. I'm for the Horde. What now? Don't let me rotting in that cage".

I'm 99'9% sure that he is not going to swap sides or that bullsh*t so many people is wanting. He is going to come to us and keep his loyalty to the Horde, where he belongs.

(PD: sorry if I made any grammatical mistakes, English is not my first language :P)

SINGLE POST COUNT ALT DENIAL!

Keep the thread trending, we must get the word out on Grand Marshal Saurangs inauguration into the Alliance.

Please do go on about all of Varok's dead friends still in the Horde. Please do go on about all the connections saurfang still has to his people being subjugated under Sylvannas as walking corpses.

saurfang has even gone on record saying the Horde is only as honorable as its Warchief. He plainly sees a leader focused on survival through conquest as repeating the same mistakes as the Horde of old.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I agree with Sylvannas Honor is just a silly game played with other people’s lives. Kill your enemy kill all your enemy hold nothing back in war. Win or end it for good.

[Deleted]

For the people who don't know Sylvanas motivations and why she fears death so much:

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...nas-windrunner

[yetgdhfgh]

Iam a Orc player and Hordie through and through and even iam starting to wonder where Saurfang is heading.

Him going off to see Anduin while the others escape prison, His talks about honor and his conversation about it with Garry back in Northrend.

Iam also starting to think blizz might be crossing a dangerous path by allowing the Mag'har to join the Alliance because only Thrall and Saurfang can get the Outland Orcs to come onboard and why would Saurfang want to drag in the last pure Orcs to a fight on another planet that he himself is starting to doubt.

I know this is Alpha and even Christie Golden said in a tweet Also bear in mind that some of the stuff that has been "unearthed" is not accurate. so this all could just be a massive red herring.

[Deleted]

Nah, I just made an account. I usually only read the forums, this one, the wowhead one and the wow official ones. But I got tired of reading bullsh*t and decided to write to, because really, there's a lot of people flipping way too much. You need just to think a lil bit about storytelling; the WoW one may be not the best, but there are some lines that not a single story writer would ever cross, because that would drive the story to a black-black and deep hole. Just answer me and convince me with arguments what would be the sense of giving Mag'har to the alliance? And why would Saurfang side with the Alliance and fight other orcs? Please, try to argument properly your answers (if you can answer).Nonsense in all that "Saurfang going Alliance" and "Mag'har going Alliance"

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Lorthremar and Gallywix are very clearly in Sylvannas' back pocket. Remember that it was also her that joined Vol'jin, too. She even brought her entire navy over to unseat Garrosh, so I don't even know why you're bringing that up. In the great words of the almighty hourglass orc "Times change". And times have definitely changed since Vol'jin died and Sylvannas "proved herself" to the Horde by claiming victory over the Legion.

Gallywix is just a greedy jib. Likely manipulated by old gods or just personal desire. Would be funny to see him become more humbled. All of the other races rank and file in behind Sylvnnas because she's Warchief. How the Horde works is you follow her orders.

Saurfang questioning her judgement (especially when he was the one wary of the Forsaken joining the Horde to begin with) is not only perfectly in line with his character, but a perfectly good reason for him to defy Sylvannas. This would only be further spurned if we do eventually find out if Vol'jin was manipulated to put Sylvannas into power, thus giving Varok a moral reason for his abandonment of her "Horde".

I've seen no evidence lately that Lor'Themar would follow Sylvanas if he thought it was best for his people not to, but then again Lor'themar has done nothing of note since 5.4
I'm not denying that Saurfang might question her judgement, but I maintain that he'd rather die than join the Alliance. Varok is old enough to remember the camps.

[ornichi]

Right, all that money on development you're not going to use.

That would just make Blizzard an even shittier company wasting even more of your time and money.

All it takes is one day of work of one person to write all those crappy dialogues.

[Mehrunes]

Like say, the writers know sylvanas has a crooked view on life and death, since she is undead and has nothing to look forward to. Given also that she knows what undeath means and does to someone's chance of having a peaceful afterlife, she willingly strips that away from people for her own survival. She'd sooner damn others then face that dark end herself.

Nothing has been ever said about undeath affecting peaceful afterlife. We've personally sent some undead straight to the light that took them. Sylvanas isn't all undead. If that was the case no one in the Desolate Council would oppose her goal of seeking immortality for the Forsaken.

I'm more inclined to side with Sylvanas here. Honor is a guideline to work with other people and form bonds of good will, but there are times when it's nothing but a hindrance. A pragmatic leader can tell when it's useful and indulge in it accordingly. Saurfang has had a good head on his shoulders, but these recent datamines, combined with how in Legion's warrior quest he went with the playercharacter to fight in Broken Shore just to die honorably, suggest he's become obsessed with honorable end. Suppose it's par for the course for an orc warrior as old as he, but it compromises his capability as a leader. Sylvanas is having none of it.

Other quotes indicate that someone, presumably Saurfang, was so anal about honor they even wanted to deal "honorably" with siege towers at Undercity (however that's supposed to work). And he even doesn't want to be rescued.

For once, I agree with Sylvanas. She has a twisted view of "Live today to fight tomorrow", but it's still better than suicidal honor.

Look where Nazgrim's honor drove him into. Saurfang is one of the most veteran soldiers of the Horde and saw countless examples of how honor can be a trick to something worse.

Honestly? Blizzard is purposely doing this to redefine the Horde. Right now, there is a clash of ideologies happening between the Orcish honor that was one of the pillar that created the Horde and the survival instincts of many races that joined the Horde.

Pretty much this. And if someone complains about honor when Sylvanas deploys the Blight and even when Sylvanas wants to deal with the siege towers her way, it'd get grating. Especially since in regards to the Blight he couldn't offer an alternative solution.

As for those saying Saurfang is going to turn on the Horde because of that and because of his deep affection towards Anduin, he's not exactly pleasant to him when he gets captured. He even taunts him with the possibility of the rest of the Horde killing him by the time Anduin would get time for his planned chat with Saurfang. Doesn't sound like someone infatuated with the Alliance or wanting nothing to do with the Horde.

Funny how Hordeplayers went from: Lok Thar Ogar and proudly holding up their moral sense of honor, to:

Victory or death is kinda exactly what Sylvanas is doing.

Screw honor, screw Saurfang, let Sylvanas use him as an undead boot cleaning slave for gods sake, who is he anyway?

Today on "What the straw-man of Horde players I constructed whispered into my ear".

Ahhhh brown orcs for the Alliance is the most beautiful thing Blizzard could ever do. Honestly and truthfully the only thing keeping me from straight pre-ordering BfA right now is 100% confirmation rather than just extremely positive speculation.

Which brown Orcs? MU Mag'har followed Garrosh till the end, not exactly Alliance turncoats material. AU Orcs have nothing to do with Alliance. They didn't even interact with Saurfang that much.

[Deleted]

Also another reason why I thing Alliance Orcs are possible:

Blizzard said they will allow green orcs to get a non-hunched version.
Why shoudl they do that if Mag Thars are allready non-hunched and going to be horde?

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Also don't forget what happened at WOTLK:

In Icecrown Citadel after we killed Saurfangs son, Varian is the one who allows Varok to take his son with him to give him, what Varian said:"the burial of an hero" and Saurfang was in extremely deep thank for him. He respected Varian extremely and his sense of Honor, also he was there when Varian at the end of SOO reminded the Horde of the honor they shoudl hold up leaving the city afterwards.

If anyone from the Horde, Saurfang would be the one who sees his moral standards only fullfilled there. Anduin is Varians son and thus both will "talk" maybe Anduin, since he is a politician and diplomat, might convince Saurfang that he cannot faight for his horde in the Horde andymore but within the Alliance.

Sounds plausible.

Please let this happen. PLEASE! This is some realistic story-telling rather than just Saurfang taking the mantle of Warchief and playing musical chairs. Let Saurfang bring the Mag'har Orcs into the Alliance.

[Honik]

''The Void Elves... they just... their numbers are endless...''

Wait.. what?

[Deleted]

Nothing has been ever said about undeath affecting peaceful afterlife. We've personally sent some undead straight to the light that took them. Sylvanas isn't all undead. If that was the case no one in the Desolate Council would oppose her goal of seeking immortality for the Forsaken.




Other quotes indicate that someone, presumably Saurfang, was so anal about honor they even wanted to deal "honorably" with siege towers at Undercity (however that's supposed to work). And he even doesn't want to be rescued.




Pretty much this. And if someone complains about honor when Sylvanas deploys the Blight and even when Sylvanas wants to deal with the siege towers her way, it'd get grating. Especially since in regards to the Blight he couldn't offer an alternative solution.

As for those saying Saurfang is going to turn on the Horde because of that and because of his deep affection towards Anduin, he's not exactly pleasant to him when he gets captured. He even taunts him with the possibility of the rest of the Horde killing him by the time Anduin would get time for his planned chat with Saurfang. Doesn't sound like someone infatuated with the Alliance or wanting nothing to do with the Horde.




Victory or death is kinda exactly what Sylvanas is doing.




Today on "What the straw-man of Horde players I constructed whispered into my ear".




Which brown Orcs? MU Mag'har followed Garrosh till the end, not exactly Alliance turncoats material. AU Orcs have nothing to do with Alliance. They didn't even interact with Saurfang that much.

There's still hope... Glad I can read some reasonable people in here. I guess we will keep seeing things like "Grommash will come from AU Draenor and will pledge to Anduin because he likes his new haircut and because he doesn't like green for orcs".

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

I agree with Sylvannas Honor is just a silly game played with other people’s lives. Kill your enemy kill all your enemy hold nothing back in war. Win or end it for good.

Yea I said this a few weeks ago in my own thread. Honor gets your soldier killed but to use what may be labeled the most barbaric weapon or act to end all wars in the future so everyone may have peace is worth having. -Points at bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki- [Reference to real life events.]

[Syegfryed]

also another reason why i thing alliance orcs are possible:

Blizzard said they will allow green orcs to get a non-hunched version.
Why shoudl they do that if mag thars are allready non-hunched and going to be horde?

what mental gymnastic is this

[Friendlyimmolation]

Please let this happen. PLEASE! This is some realistic story-telling rather than just Saurfang taking the mantle of Warchief and playing musical chairs. Let Saurfang bring the Mag'har Orcs into the Alliance.

If by realistic you mean complexity out of left field and only making sense in the depths of headcanon

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Also another reason why I thing Alliance Orcs are possible:

Blizzard said they will allow green orcs to get a non-hunched version.
Why shoudl they do that if Mag Thars are allready non-hunched and going to be horde?

I can’t belive you think there is even a snowball’s chance