Demo Changes!

[Fewane]

I cannot believe how much I've missed Soul Fire + MC.

Looks like a promising start overall.

[EnigmaVII]

Hand of Gul'dan needs to summon lesser doomguards/dreadlords/inquiz randomly. The lesser doomguard will be the melee demon using legion strike and war stomp for some AoE, dreadlords will be the primary AE demon casting carrion swarm on everything and for the inquiz it will simply summon dread eyes to assault your enemies. Let imp swarm be the primary way to summon imps and let Hand of gul'dan be a 1min cool down with 3x charges but instant cast. Remove shadowbolt and let imps/imp swarm be the generator for far greater demons to summon.

Demon commander should either be a Eredar/inquiz/dreadlord. Bring back grimoire of supremacy over grimoire of synergy and let that be the passive that transforms our primary pets into lieutenant demons such as fel lords/void lords/imp mother etc.

5min cool down for Call Pitlord. Sacrifices all current demons out(you will need 1 demon commander, 1 lesser demon from hand of gul'dan and 5x imps) to summon a Pit lord to lay waste to your enemies! I can only wish

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Doom shouldn't be a talent!

[Deleted]

Tbh I kinda like Doom changing to a talent (so I can opt out of if ). The Doom mechanic just doesn't work for anything but raid bosses that obviously survive for several minutes.

I like the Commander as a cooldown but 40y range AoE will pull EVERTHING!!!! . Obviously he's a badass so that is ehm ok-ish?

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I think it sounds cool assuming you could summon more than just another Imp.

It's not what gets summoned, it's the fact that it's entirely passive.

[Fewane]

Tbh I kinda like Doom changing to a talent (so I can opt out of if ). The Doom mechanic just doesn't work for anything but raid bosses that obviously survive for several minutes.

This I also love. It has felt very lackluster as a mechanic (and yeah, unusable out of raid bosses). "Click and wait for ages before anything happens. Reclick and wait again."

[Orwell7]

The current iteration needs a huge amount of addons/UI elements to play it optimally.
All revolves around the big Demon Commander cooldown. Imp Swarm is on a 45s cd, "Biliescourge Bombers" is on 1.5m, summon Vilefiend 45s. Basically wait for these CD's, maybe a Synergy proc, and there ya go.

THANK GOD all these have 1.5-2s cast times! Oh wait, Imp Swarm is instant :O

Well, it's almost the same Demo that is in Legion, except it has more buttons to push.
The core "functionalities" of the spec is still the same. Stay in one place and chain-cast for single-target damage.

Doom gone to a talent, but it is limited to one target, and it does not generate soul shards anymore.
Multidotting gone!

At least Demonic Circle can be safely picked, but still needs a cancelaura macro.

No mobility tools, Shadowfury cd increased from 30s to 1min, stun duration reduced from 4s -> 3s, but it is baseline now. With talent you can get it to 45s.
No snares, no roots, no speed increase tho.

No real raid utility except Curse of Elements but DH's maybe get that instead.

The new demo only has one flashy boi: Soulfire with Molten Core procs and a talent for it to make it instant! I wonder how many procs can be stored, maybe this can be used cleverly for movement.

AoE? Uhm, demonwrath spam + hand of guldan's splash + felstorm. No Doom dotting -> no extra shards for aoe.
MC + Soulfire looks like a shardless 4-shard HoG and nothing else.

So the "passive" "shard generation" from Doom went to Wild Imps, but these shards can only be used on HoG. This is Molten Core basically.


I'm not sure.. Less aoe, no multidot, lame mobility, no utility.

[Duckz0rs]

DE seems to be here still.

Check the video a couple of posts under your initial post. There's a lot of incorrect stuff on MMO-Champion's datamining, wowhead seems to be a bit more accurate atm.

DE is in fact removed from the game.

[Shandalar]

Its still pretty WIP to say something, at least we have more demons and Soulfire back, and thats good.

[Inshabel]

I like what I'm seeing so far, defo gonna give it a try in BFA.

[Deleted]

The current iteration needs a huge amount of addons/UI elements to play it optimally.
All revolves around the big Demon Commander cooldown. Imp Swarm is on a 45s cd, "Biliescourge Bombers" is on 1.5m, summon Vilefiend 45s. Basically wait for these CD's, maybe a Synergy proc, and there ya go.

THANK GOD all these have 1.5-2s cast times! Oh wait, Imp Swarm is instant :O

Well, it's almost the same Demo that is in Legion, except it has more buttons to push.
The core "functionalities" of the spec is still the same. Stay in one place and chain-cast for single-target damage.

Doom gone to a talent, but it is limited to one target, and it does not generate soul shards anymore.
Multidotting gone!

At least Demonic Circle can be safely picked, but still needs a cancelaura macro.

No mobility tools, Shadowfury cd increased from 30s to 1min, stun duration reduced from 4s -> 3s, but it is baseline now. With talent you can get it to 45s.
No snares, no roots, no speed increase tho.

No real raid utility except Curse of Elements but DH's maybe get that instead.

The new demo only has one flashy boi: Soulfire with Molten Core procs and a talent for it to make it instant! I wonder how many procs can be stored, maybe this can be used cleverly for movement.

AoE? Uhm, demonwrath spam + hand of guldan's splash + felstorm. No Doom dotting -> no extra shards for aoe.
MC + Soulfire looks like a shardless 4-shard HoG and nothing else.

So the "passive" "shard generation" from Doom went to Wild Imps, but these shards can only be used on HoG. This is Molten Core basically.


I'm not sure.. Less aoe, no multidot, lame mobility, no utility.

dont quite agree with your assessment, demon commander and scourge bombers(whatever its called) seem to be aoe, so that will prolly give you more burst aoe than in legion which has always been a demo thing, the regular doom is still there afaik so you dont have to take the talent doom as that seems to only be a ST, so if you dont take that talent you can still multidot but i will say it does come off as a bit hinky with 2 versions of doom, 1 for dotting and 1 for ST and i can see some clever usage of power siphon+overloaded+imp swarm for a lot of movement, easily up to 10-12ish sec of free movement while spamming soulfire by popping power siphon, get 4 stacks of instant soulfire, then pop imp swarm and power siphon again for another 4 stacks of instant soulfire, it might not be optimal, but the option is there and it is better than what we had in legion but either way, we have to wait and see what this build really looks like, atm we can only make assumptions on datamined stuff that are often wrong during an alpha.

[Inshabel]

The current iteration needs a huge amount of addons/UI elements to play it optimally.
All revolves around the big Demon Commander cooldown. Imp Swarm is on a 45s cd, "Biliescourge Bombers" is on 1.5m, summon Vilefiend 45s. Basically wait for these CD's, maybe a Synergy proc, and there ya go.

THANK GOD all these have 1.5-2s cast times! Oh wait, Imp Swarm is instant :O

Well, it's almost the same Demo that is in Legion, except it has more buttons to push.
The core "functionalities" of the spec is still the same. Stay in one place and chain-cast for single-target damage.

Doom gone to a talent, but it is limited to one target, and it does not generate soul shards anymore.
Multidotting gone!

At least Demonic Circle can be safely picked, but still needs a cancelaura macro.

No mobility tools, Shadowfury cd increased from 30s to 1min, stun duration reduced from 4s -> 3s, but it is baseline now. With talent you can get it to 45s.
No snares, no roots, no speed increase tho.

No real raid utility except Curse of Elements but DH's maybe get that instead.

The new demo only has one flashy boi: Soulfire with Molten Core procs and a talent for it to make it instant! I wonder how many procs can be stored, maybe this can be used cleverly for movement.

AoE? Uhm, demonwrath spam + hand of guldan's splash + felstorm. No Doom dotting -> no extra shards for aoe.
MC + Soulfire looks like a shardless 4-shard HoG and nothing else.

So the "passive" "shard generation" from Doom went to Wild Imps, but these shards can only be used on HoG. This is Molten Core basically.


I'm not sure.. Less aoe, no multidot, lame mobility, no utility.

Vilefiend has no duration though, it just gives you a second perma demon which is pretty cool, and you can store 4 MC proccs I believe. And DW generated a ton of shards but isn't in BFA right now.

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dont quite agree with your assessment, demon commander and scourge bombers(whatever its called) seem to be aoe, so that will prolly give you more burst aoe than in legion which has always been a demo thing, the regular doom is still there afaik so you dont have to take the talent doom as that seems to only be a ST, so if you dont take that talent you can still multidot but i will say it does come off as a bit hinky with 2 versions of doom, 1 for dotting and 1 for ST and i can see some clever usage of power siphon+overloaded+imp swarm for a lot of movement, easily up to 10-12ish sec of free movement while spamming soulfire by popping power siphon, get 4 stacks of instant soulfire, then pop imp swarm and power siphon again for another 4 stacks of instant soulfire, it might not be optimal, but the option is there and it is better than what we had in legion but either way, we have to wait and see what this build really looks like, atm we can only make assumptions on datamined stuff that are often wrong during an alpha.

No, doom is definitely gone from baseline.

[Deleted]

Oh, is Demonic Empowerment gone?

I didn't really have the hateboner for it that a lot of people did, but I can see why they removed it.

One thing I'd love for Demo is, instead of summoning random unnamed demons, it'd be baller if you could summon your other Demons (SUCC, Voidwalker, Imp and Felhunter) with abilities as temporary pets. Like I don't see why the new Vilefiend thing couldn't just be your own named Felhunter that you literally never get to summon because Felguard.

[Gathiz]

It still looks awful.

It is still forced into spamming hard casts, causing any movement to kill its dps.

Summoned demons are just dots with bad pet AI, once again locking demo into the ST imp mother spec.

The summoner theme is bad, even Ion said so. Not sure why they are still trying to force this dumpster fire on us.

[Deleted]

The summoner theme is bad, even Ion said so. Not sure why they are still trying to force this dumpster fire on us.

Well, personally I like it. I always felt the game was lacking a proper minion master that just throws disposable dudes at something until it dies. I'd rather it have been a necromancer, but I'll take what I can get.

I do feel for people who liked the old demo though, really got shafted by DHs.

[jackvii]

I'm pretty sure Nether Portal is going to have to change in the upcoming builds . .

No sense in having an ability that requires using all the shards you dumped to make it and spend half of it's short duration just trying to get it to function. If you have to move after casting it at all, you may as well have no talent there.

I really hope Imps duration is set by number of firebolts like it was in MoP; just that change would take out half the frustration the Legion version generates.

[Gathiz]

I do feel for people who liked the old demo though, really got shafted by DHs.

Demo went from my favorite spec by far to my least favorite, wish they could give us an option in the talents to have that gameplay back. I don’t even care about meta form, just the playstyle.

[Deleted]

Tbh I kinda like Doom changing to a talent (so I can opt out of if ). The Doom mechanic just doesn't work for anything but raid bosses that obviously survive for several minutes.

I like the Commander as a cooldown but 40y range AoE will pull EVERTHING!!!! . Obviously he's a badass so that is ehm ok-ish?

I was watching Towelie show off Demo earlier today. The Demon commander indeed pulls everything and its mother within 40yards. That thing has no chill.

[kaid]

Too incomplete to really gauge how its meant to be played. Imp swarm in its current form seems unneeded bloat. Not a very engaging button to press every 45 seconds just cause.

Soulfire and moltencore are nice touches

Imps lasting until they actually use their dmg instead of fixed timers is nice too.

DE seems to be here still.

Still not much to really comment on. But I like what i see so far. The core of what is live is still here with added benefits.

Actually it is a really nice spell especially when soloing. One huge problem with demo warlocks is ramp up time soloing which makes them feel really slow and clunky. This way pretty much you will either have that spell up at the start of a fight or you will have enough shards for hand of gul'dan to summon them. That way you can have a more consistent output all the time instead of slow build up they do on live.

[lummiuster]

I read this thread's title "Demo Change"
I clicked on it
Did Ctrl+F
typed "demonic empowerment" but got no match
That's enough to say the spec is still shit

[Deleted]

Are people not overstating the movement aspect? Many speak of summoned demons being like dots, therefore whilst your moving they are still doing damage, yes you are losing some damage whilst moving, but a high percentage of demo damage comes passively after the demons have been summoned. It requires a bit of planning as it does for destruction, often stutter stepping. It's not like Your just running around endlessly, we still have gateway/portal. Aside from affliction the days of warlock mobility have long gone and been reined in and I don't think they will revert that any time soon. In PvP it absolutely sucks balls