Confirmed: The Horde Are The Bad Guys

[Steampunkette]

"out of nowhere", alrighty then. Poor Alliance, never did an aggressive war move to provoke the horde, poor alliance indeed.

Destroying it WOULD be out of nowhere, since she's stated her goal is to Capture it.

[Highwhale]

Lmao, this is easily one of the best threads in the history of MMO Champion. "The day it dawned on hundreds of Horde noobs that perhaps their faction wasn't the shining beacon of light its made out to be by the hardcore fanboys." It reminds me of this clip from youtube
The average modern Horde player's cognitive dissonance can truly be astounding. What's wrong with being the bad guys? Without the bad guys you can't have good guys. When Warcraft games came out, the Horde were alien invaders, canonically the bad guys from the start. As time goes on however, it typically goes that the Alliance isn't always 'good', just more often 'good' than the Horde is. It's really that simple.

You know what the worst? Sylvanas fans who say she isn't evil. She is. She cold hearted bitch and basically Lich King 2.0. Its okay. Its part of her story and her character development. But these people basically denying part of her character for sake of her being sunshine bunny.

[MikeBogina]

I meant her People as in the Horde not just the Forsaken. But you are correct Forsaken are different, maybe ideally they can live out the rest of their undeath in peace

Good then we're in agreement... paint that continent RED!

[OverFanNisseFrasse]

Silverpine questing. Crowley offers the Worgen blood to the Southshore survivors so they can't be turned. The 7th Legion only deploys non-human troops on the frontlines at Pyrewood to counteract the Val'kyr as well.

But it only stops if you drink the worgen blood or become Worgen, it doesn't matter if you are human, the human part in all this doesn't matter. And think there is a misunderstanding here.

I meant that Sylvanas sacrifice one of her Val'kyrs to save Vol'jin's life, not raise Vol'jin as an undead troll through mass resurrection, as the Val'kyrs does to all the fallen human soldiers. But more as of *Jumps in, take his place, the Val'kyr dies, Vol'jin survives* As the Val'kyrs have been doing time and time again for Sylvanas specifically, she got 4-5 of them left now or something? Then the same could been done for Vol'jin, to save the Warchief of the Horde. Again, this might only work for undeads, as Sylvanas is after all, an undead. I don't know and thats why I asked the question if some one know, interesting thing none the less.

[Deleted]

Yeah... um... nowhere did I say it wasn't an act of War? But the war kinda started with Genn's sneak attack in Stormheim or the Alliance's sneak attack in Silithus. Teldrassil is an attempt to end the War by taking the big Alliance Stronghold on the continent and kicking people out. Once that's done, either a treaty or a build up of defenses can bring stability and a measure of peace.

Burning it down, though? Then there's no peace to be had because of the civilian casualties. You know, like when the Alliance burned Camp Taraujo to the ground.

So how is the Alliance (your own words)"retaliating against the wrong target"? Again, she might want to capture it, but she might end burning it instead. How would it look if she attacks it and can't capture it? She might rather destroy it than be humiliatingly repelled.

[MikeBogina]

Burned not burned - it doesn't matter. Attack is attack.

There either one of two choices:

1 - Sylvanas realize she can't beat Malfurion so she use Azerite and burn down Teldressil

2 - NELFs burning it themselves so Horde don't get it.

3 - Twilight Cultist... Fire Night Elves... OLD GODS!!!!

[Highwhale]

3 - Twilight Cultist... Fire Night Elves... OLD GODS!!!!

Sometimes Sylvanas don't need excuses to be evil you know?

[Deleted]

what has the alliance done that's oh so gray then?
.

How about hiring countless people to work on rebuilding your fucking capital and then kick their asses off and not pay them after work done?

[MikeBogina]

he was after second well of eternity that was below tree and not the tree (https://wow.gamepedia.com/Archimonde#Defiler.27s_End)
so you are now contradicting what you earlier said, night elf did nothing when legion invaded.

The well that Illidan created so that his people could grow in power to fight the Legion... which they prevented by building a tree over it and imprisoning him. So yeah, their fault.

[Projectmars]

You know what the worst? Sylvanas fans who say she isn't evil. She is. She cold hearted bitch and basically Lich King 2.0. Its okay. Its part of her story and her character development. But these people basically denying part of her character for sake of her being sunshine bunny.

Seems a bit more Garrosh 2.0 than Lich King 2.0 to me.

[MikeBogina]

Sometimes Sylvanas don't need excuses to be evil you know?

Listen here sourface varian, i read War Crimes so I know the law... everyone else is to blame for the villain's evil deeds


but seriously though, when it's revealed to not be her doing, come back to this thread and make a formal apology to Queen Sylvanas for these false slanders

[ls-]

BTW, did anyone even bother to link this?

[Highwhale]

Listen here sourface varian, i read War Crimes so I know the law... everyone else is to blame for the villain's evil deeds


but seriously though, when it's revealed to not be her doing, come back to this thread and make a formal apology to Queen Sylvanas for these false slanders

Said guy with anime avatar.

I accept challenge if you will do the same if i will be right.

[Steampunkette]

So how is the Alliance (your own words)"retaliating against the wrong target"? Again, she might want to capture it, but she might end burning it instead. How would it look if she attacks it and can't capture it? She might rather destroy it than be humiliatingly repelled.

Because the Alliance would be attacking the Horde for burning down Teldrassil instead of attacking whoever burned down Teldrassil?

Like if I walked into Teldrassil while everything was happening on Darkshore, dumped a shitload of kerosene, and dropped a match on it, the Alliance should come after me, right? Not talking about "Me, playing a horde character" I'm talking about me the person, here.

If they went after the Horde for burning it down, when I burned it down, they'd be going after the wrong people.

Now if I -didn't- burn it down. If instead it was a situation where Sylvanas captured it and had Malfurion and Tyrande sign a peace treaty ceding the land in exchange for safety and safe passage to the EK the Alliance coming after the Horde would be a breach of their own treaty... Which, y'know, would be something they'd probably try not to do?

Whole "Tries to be Lawful society" and everything.

[andy123456]

The well that Illidan created so that his people could grow in power to fight the Legion... which they prevented by building a tree over it and imprisoning him. So yeah, their fault.

almost every race in wow is some what responsible in bringing legion to azeroth.

you counter your own statement that night elf did nothing when legion invaded

[Lodreh]

If we were the bad guys from the very beginning I'd be okay with it, Sith/Republic for example. The problem is we've walked the line a lot with the forsaken being the bad guys and the blood elves doing some shady stuff in the past. The rest of the horde isn't evil yet it's continuously pushed into the role of being, that's how I feel about it, my taurens would be horrified at sylvanas's plan and the attack on teldrassil but I have no choice but to put up and shut up.

I agree and kinda why I wanted Highmountain to go to the Alliance and Lightforged to go to the Horde.... it would be more interesting to see "breathren" on the other side.

[sillag]

idk friends i was always on the side of horde not being the bad guys but i dont think blizzard is anymore and as usual they will rewrite every character to fit whatever idea pops into their head

with garrosh at least we had our rebellion to prove the horde wasnt evil. now we have the same story and sylvanas playing the same character as garrosh except that this time we're told we all are on board with her plans

like what is going on with battle for azeroth seriously. it honestly seems like all the old writers are gone and a bunch of new ones arrived and took a superficial look at the lore then decided on a new story to fix all the problems they saw with it. "the red team look like they're meant to be evil but they dont act evil enough. lets make them more genocidal. hey isnt it weird that each continent doesnt belong to one side lets fix that *knocks down darnassus and undercity*

i fear for the future of our game my wow friends

[Enthusiastic Steward]

How about hiring countless people to work on rebuilding your fucking capital and then kick their asses off and not pay them after work done?

You forgot to add attempting to kill everyone on Azeroth at the start of Cataclysm.

[epec]

Ahh the edgyness and calling people noobs, love it. You have taken the path of so many other alliance fanboy posters before you.

I mean, you would have to be kind of a noob to the Warcraft series if you seriously think that Horde is in anyway the 'good guys of the series.' There is an entire series of games before World of Warcraft that it's based on. You're seriously calling me an Alliance fanboy when I literally have a Warcraft 3 Troll Shadow Shaman icon as my avatar. Dude, maybe it's time to just admit when you're wrong, lmao. Being the cool bad guys is part of what made the Horde awesome, at least to me. It's a shame that over the years so many delusional Horde fanboys have deluded it to "Alliance light" or "red Alliance" that it has ruined playing Horde for me. The Horde is supposed to be like the bad ass biker-gang of conquerors that take no prisoners and show no mercy kinda group. If they want to burn some stupid tree, then good. I love it. That's what the Horde is supposed to be. Let's put the W A R back in Warcraft and stop pretending like the Horde is some care bear friendship is magic garbage.

[AngerFork]

One thing I haven't seen brought up yet: did Sylvanas intentionally opt to lose Undercity/Lordaeron? I know that may sound weird, but think about it in terms of her quotes.

"We take this azerite and use it to conquer Kalimdor.
We build the greatest empire ever known; one that is untouchable against the Alliance.
With the seas parting our lands, rather than mere borders, we can live and prosper without conflict.
That is how you ensure the survival of the Horde for the next hundred years, $n."

While that does sound like a power hungry Saturday Morning cartoon villain, I also see something in there about "live and prosper without conflict." This quote does seem to show her aim being Kalimdor specifically, building an empire of strength within seclusion. This makes Teldrassil and the Exodar a problem for her on Kalimdor, but it also means that keeping Silvermoon and Undercity will expend resources she may not really want to. Combine that with the issue of the Desolate Council and how they seem to be building a rebellion to her in Undercity while she's away, it completely makes sense why she would want that closer to Orgrimmar if at all possible. Not to mention with the core spot of Azerite seemingly being Silithus (even though it's all over the place), Sylvanas specifically would want Silithus as a part of her lands.

While a trade of such lands to keep the peace might be amenable to Anduin in an overall sense, there's no real way for that to occur due to the way the other races currently living in those lands would perceive it. This partially may be her intent for attacking Teldrassil, a small scale war for long-standing peace. But what to do with her own lands in Eastern Kingdoms? She very well can't abandon the Undercity without looking weak to the Horde, nor could she get the Blood Elves to abandon the Sunwell. So...you have a small scale set of troops on your side there, bring in some War Machines and the like to show your strength, but you create a fight you intend to lose. We fought hard everyone, but we have to abandon the Undercity. Here's some blight in the meantime to make it uninhabitable to all.

What does this do? This makes it so that the Forsaken are back on Kalimdor with you, makes it look like you really can't protect the Sunwell right now due to the Alliance's strength...but also shows that you are developing a way to do so later on. Plus, the Alliance's desire to get Lordaeron back in an overall sense will likely give them the drive to spend resources rebuilding it...resources that they might not instead be spending to assault you while you build up your strength.

Recruit a front-line Navy to protect your shores while building more Azerite weaponry, she may well have a way to empower the Horde over the next 100 years.