The lies and misrepresenttions of Titanforging

[Varitok]

Titanforging is RNG cancer at its worst. Remove it and bring back reforging for some freedom of choice and making pieces which aren't too great actually decent.

I barely raid at all but even someone who does LFR can see how horrendous the TF system is.

They say that people love the feeling of getting a good titanforge and completely ignore the fact that people get pissed if the item they need drops and its 15 ilvls too low. That is a feeling that is expressed far more than the 1% chance of titanforging 30 ilvls.

[Gaidax]

EPGP.

We do loot council and difference between lowest geared raider and highest geared one in 6 ilvls for us.

[RoKPaNda]

The problem is and always has been M+ loot, not TF.

The odds of getting a perfectly rolled piece from LFR is like hitting the lottery. Literally. Even getting a DECENT piece from LFR is an extreme rarity. On average of running Heroic every week in a normal length tier you'll get 3~ pieces of loot that are Mythic base or higher. TF is good for the game.

Mythic+ loot on the other hand ... Running a +15 is pretty faceroll most weeks, and everyone in the run gets a free 960+ on reset day.

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I barely raid at all but even someone who does LFR can see how horrendous the TF system is.

They say that people love the feeling of getting a good titanforge and completely ignore the fact that people get pissed if the item they need drops and its 15 ilvls too low. That is a feeling that is expressed far more than the 1% chance of titanforging 30 ilvls.

That's a Mythic raiding problem, not a TF problem. Everyone else's gear should cap out 5~ item levels below current tier Mythic and be adjusted each tier. Our gear should just warforge so we don't feel frustrated when we down a Mythic boss and get an item that isn't titanforged. Or just scale our gear to a set ilevel when we zone in. Fixing OUR problem shouldn't fuck over everyone else.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

"I Got Free Ice Cream But It Doesn't Have Sprinkles Or Candy Swirls, Fuck This Game."

I'll play your game, sure:

Plain ice cream is shitty when you know you could have had stuffing on top of it aswell.

They should remove the stuffing as an option, which will increase the value of plain ice cream. Classic - Cata loot was always just plain ice cream, but every time you got said ice cream, it felt rewarding, because there was no lottery that sometimes gave you extra flavours to go with it.


WotLK and Cata had the perfect loot systems. TFing was just another case of Blizz trying to fix what wasn't broken in the first place, and in doing so, they made a new system that actually is broken.

[Hctaz]

So your saying: make it so it's not worth running other content then current tier at current difficulty. You see that this means starving all content of relevance? So dungeons go back to early leveling before the first raid opens, M+ becomes the worthless niche activity that 'challenge mode' was and so on.

Good? That's what we want really. I mean, there's always the reason to keep doing M+ for the fun variance of it. Keep the weekly chest the same so it's always worth it to run at least one a week, but, without the endless grind attached to M+, people will not get burnt out on the system. You will get more people doing M+ actively throughout the entire expansion instead of a big push at the beginning of every tier until it drops off.

[MasterHamster]

For the vast majority of players, TF is a welcome surprise now and then. Stop thinking that the horror boogeymen of LFR heroes in full mythic gear are rampant. It doesn't happen in any meaningful extent. If at all.

The ONLY problem I'll agree with is that heroic raid rosters eventually inch closer to Mythic raiders gear thanks to WF/TF. I think TF should cap 5-10 below the best Mythic gear available.

That's it. Some non-raider getting a lucky +70 ilvl roll from a dungeon once every 6 months isn't a damn issue. A single overpowered item, Arcanocrystal, being sought after with a high TF is not indicative of the whole system being a mistake.

[Fabinas]

Aside from the vast difference in TF rate the above people mention. It is also time for a REALITY CHECK.
Do hardcore raider spent their time farming Argunite for BASE 910 Unstable Arcanocrystal or they spent time doing LFR for TF chances?

From multiple mythic raider streamers, almost all of them rather farm for Unstable Arcanocrystal and not doing LFR to get so called "An afk-LFR TF+30 item is an unfair reward".

So there goes your wild theory on the importance of LFR TF items.

When you can have only one chance per loot per week in each raid difficulty (plus the bonus rolls), when you don't get your item on heroic, you will probably do normal and LFR and pray for procs. Is that the game is supposed to be played?

Probably. As it seems, the only thing that matters is time /played, full of slot machine lever pulls and not a fair reward scheme where effort (and time) is rewarded accordingly.

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Titanforging breaks down the natural gear progression of characters. Instead of being rewarded for killing harder bosses, you can now also get rewarded for just repeating content on end.

It also diminishes rewards from doing harder content after having hit a barrier for some time. After farming normal or heroic for a few months, the gear reward for going up in difficulty becomes insanely small. When you can get the same item-lvl of gear for doing normal as heroic, the push to go higher just faints out for some people. Sure, you might get it faster on heroic, but aslong as you see a steady gear intake, i think many people don't mind the extra time it takes.

I would not be surprised if there was a reduction in players jumping up in difficulty in Legion compared to other expansions. Some people might say, that there is nothing bad in people just finding a difficulty and sticking with it, but in a game about becoming better, improving and being rewarded for doing these things, you will just end up with a stagnate and bored playerbase in the end, if they don't feel the need to push, better or improve themselfs based on the challenges presented to themselfs.

Titanforging does not hurt as a feature being implemented in open world content. It allows for fun moments of upgrade and can get you to switch out gear more often. But in end-game content - raids and mythic+(don't know about rated BGs), it really does not have a home. When you go from normal or heroic and go up one difficulty, there should be nearly garanted gear upgrades for you. When you kill the first 2 bosses on mythic, you should not see yourself DE 80-90% of the gear, it just gives a bad experience.

So yeah, a good amount of counterarguments against TF. There might be some lies and misrepresenttions on TF, but there are also quite legit problems, this is just one them.

Thank you for expressing more clearly what i wanted to say. Most of these problems would have been alleviated if : 1. TF didnt exceed a certain +ilvl value (+10? +15? +20), 2. Raid/Boss items weren't be able to be rolled on a higher ilvl that the original (and the TF'ed on top of it).

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And it does, you make it sound as it LFR dwellers are showered with uber gear. They are not. Mythic Raiders easily have best and most optimized gear. Even if by some miracle said LFR player manages to come close to Mythic Raider ilvl, his gear will be a salad of random shit at best and his skill won't put him anywhere close to that of real raider.

That's why titanforging does not bother me, so a bunch of noobs get some breadcrumbs of decent gear once in a blue moon... and? They can't do anything decent with that gear anyway and it really does not cause me mental anguish to see someone getting that gear.

Like the "worst" case scenario, one of our own raiders getting some uber titanforged item, then what... he will be 2% better geared than next guy in line and raid as a whole benefits? OoOOOooOO OoOOOooOO such horror.

Yeah, it's no problem when basic principles are bent, if it's a no issue (for whom?). Especially when long held principles in this game (effort=reward) are bent just to boost time /played. kk.

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@OP i think the majority of players understand that no LFR/WQ player can have full 960+ gear :/ those that even think its possible are laughed at .

Noone said that. However, afking in LFR and getting a +30ilvl item (or higher) shouldn't be occuring at all in this game. Zero, zilch, nada possibility. That's what we argue.

[gallamann]

TF has just about no impact on raiding guilds, to put it in current perspective when we are wiping on Coven or Aggramar it hass absolutely nothing to do with gear. Coven is all about people failing mechanics, Aggramar is all about CC'ers failing their job. This will be true regardless of raid (LFR/Normal/Heroic/Mythic).

Personally I believe the TF haters are mostly people jealous of someone else's good fortune.

[Fabinas]

For the vast majority of players, TF is a welcome surprise now and then. Stop thinking that the horror boogeymen of LFR heroes in full mythic gear are rampant. It doesn't happen in any meaningful extent. If at all.

The ONLY problem I'll agree with is that heroic raid rosters eventually inch closer to Mythic raiders gear thanks to WF/TF. I think TF should cap 5-10 below the best Mythic gear available.

That's it. Some non-raider getting a lucky +70 ilvl roll from a dungeon once every 6 months isn't a damn issue. A single overpowered item, Arcanocrystal, being sought after with a high TF is not indicative of the whole system being a mistake.

It's not one item. It's tier sets from older raids, other trinkets, relics...

At any rate, I would much prefer a very low range for warforging items (+5 and max +10), no Titanforging (no more +15 - mythic base +15) and possibility of adding another +10 ilvl through grind (valor points, essences, whatever other currency).

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I'll play your game, sure:

Plain ice cream is shitty when you know you could have had stuffing on top of it aswell.

They should remove the stuffing as an option, which will increase the value of plain ice cream. Classic - Cata loot was always just plain ice cream, but every time you got said ice cream, it felt rewarding, because there was no lottery that sometimes gave you extra flavours to go with it.


WotLK and Cata had the perfect loot systems. TFing was just another case of Blizz trying to fix what wasn't broken in the first place, and in doing so, they made a new system that actually is broken.

Especially when the stuffing or topping on ice cream is being distributed randomly and not to the "good" (in game:skilled) boys and girls.

[Deleted]

We do loot council and difference between lowest geared raider and highest geared one in 6 ilvls for us.

A big source of TF relics is heroic and M+, so my point stands with any loot distribution system.