Would JRPGs appeal more to Western audiences if they had older protagonists?

[Dugna]

you want to know which one sold more? P5 did, even though P2 both versions had casts that were drastically more mature and older then the cast of P5, making a JRPG more westernized won't let it sell more and won't make it a better game it being a good game is whats makes it a good game.

FF12 a game nothing about the player character vann has a story with a cast full of adults about a political war with countries everywhere with characters like


sold less then many other ff games which are more japanese in nature.

No what prevents some people from playing JRPGS even though their variety is sooo vast is just the idea of "hurr durr its anime so I won't play it" thats what.

[zealo]

No. JRPGs should not try to pander to audiences of western rpgs intentionally.

It's better if jRPGs don't try to become western rpgs that just happen to be produced in Japan.

[Katchii]

Age of the characters matters far less to me than overall game design and story. That said, the age of the characters still needs to be believable when related to the actions they're taking.

For me, it just seems that many JRPG's, or RPGs in general just thrown in so many minute details and systems that over complicate the game and take away from the story and game play.

As much as I really like Persona 5, there is honestly not enough game play outside of the palaces, if the game had more combat or action oriented parts I think it would have been more popular with Western audiences.

[dope_danny]

Your key problem is talking about jrpgs appealing more to the west. This never ends well. The reason games have an appeal outside their native markets is because they make something not to appeal to those outside, so to some outside is has a unique appeal. Its why people used to wrpg's on the PC in the early 90's loved jrpgs. Because they weren't more of the same. Cut to every time the 'wider market appeal' meme has shown up and it only dilutes what was interesting and spites the core audience to try and net people that probably just see things listed above as knock offs of western games rather than original content.

This isn't just a "muh weebshit is superior" rant though as it always works both ways. The reasons the xbone is completely dead in japan and selling worse than the Wii -not Wii U- and the PS Vita is because MS tried and lost the JP audience with their big push with Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey in the mid 2000's. They aren't the audience and it didn't sell.

Nowadays you often see inclusivity pushed as a positive in games in terms of marketing. Thing is people confuse it with inclusivity of character types. Its not the same thing. Games should have varied casts and thus more varied potential for unique settings and situations. Trying to be inclusive in terms of the audience only means being white noise that appeals to no core audience at all.
For example: I do not like Gone Home or Call of Duty. Neither of those two different games appeal to me and i am part of neither audience. I would also never dream to scream and holler that either game should change to appeal to me as a consumer. They have their audience, i am not it but have other games i enjoy that dont appeal to fans of either. Look at every jrpg thats been altered for "western appeal" and you have trash like FFXIII and FFXV that don't net a huge new audience but also end up being disliked by a lot of the core fans which ultimately means it has no audience beyond chasing the "my polaris sponsored screamer streamer told me to get hype and thats my sleeper trigger world!" day one adopters that drop a game as soon as the buzz for the next starts.

If you have to ask a question like "would they appeal more if X" my response is "why do they need to?".

[Velshin]

Your key problem is talking about jrpgs appealing more to the west. This never ends well. The reason games have an appeal outside their native markets is because they make something not to appeal to those outside, so to some outside is has a unique appeal. Its why people used to wrpg's on the PC in the early 90's loved jrpgs. Because they weren't more of the same. Cut to every time the 'wider market appeal' meme has shown up and it only dilutes what was interesting and spites the core audience to try and net people that probably just see things listed above as knock offs of western games rather than original content.

This isn't just a "muh weebshit is superior" rant though as it always works both ways. The reasons the xbone is completely dead in japan and selling worse than the Wii -not Wii U- and the PS Vita is because MS tried and lost the JP audience with their big push with Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey in the mid 2000's. They aren't the audience and it didn't sell.

Nowadays you often see inclusivity pushed as a positive in games in terms of marketing. Thing is people confuse it with inclusivity of character types. Its not the same thing. Games should have varied casts and thus more varied potential for unique settings and situations. Trying to be inclusive in terms of the audience only means being white noise that appeals to no core audience at all.
For example: I do not like Gone Home or Call of Duty. Neither of those two different games appeal to me and i am part of neither audience. I would also never dream to scream and holler that either game should change to appeal to me as a consumer. They have their audience, i am not it but have other games i enjoy that dont appeal to fans of either. Look at every jrpg thats been altered for "western appeal" and you have trash like FFXIII and FFXV that don't net a huge new audience but also end up being disliked by a lot of the core fans which ultimately means it has no audience beyond chasing the "my polaris sponsored screamer streamer told me to get hype and thats my sleeper trigger world!" day one adopters that drop a game as soon as the buzz for the next starts.

If you have to ask a question like "would they appeal more if X" my response is "why do they need to?".

Thanks man totally agree 100% and never able to say it better than this.

The main reason why FF series degraded because it tried to adopted and altered for western appeal. I mean look at Tales of Berseria such beautiful JRPG...this is why I love Tales series and Legend of Heroes series because they stick with that made JRPG good instead of trying to be western appeal.

Hell look at FFXIV even though it's an MMORPG but I still see it million times better than FFXIII and FFXV because it gives the good old feeling of the older versions of FF titles.

[dope_danny]

Thanks man totally agree 100% and never able to say it better than this.

The main reason why FF series degraded because it tried to adopted and altered for western appeal. I mean look at Tales of Berseria such beautiful JRPG...this is why I love Tales series and Legend of Heroes series because they stick with that made JRPG good instead of trying to be western appeal.

Hell look at FFXIV even though it's an MMORPG but I still see it million times better than FFXIII and FFXV because it gives the good old feeling of the older versions of FF titles.

I remember years ago now the at the time SE CEO gave an interview where he was very, very surprised Bravely Default was more profitable in the west than FF13. Specifically saying "we made that game just to appeal to our japanese, classic FF audience but maybe thats what was the appeal to begin with for westerners?" which lead to an exasperated "FINALLY!" from many. They still put out some 'for westerners' crap but its almost always shit related in some way to the disastrous Fabula Nova Crystalis Project to recoup costs from that money hole that nearly ruined them. Again.

[Schattenlied]

I donno about other people, but I personally don't play JRPGs like Personoa because I don't care much for turn based combat.

[prwraith]

Honestly i wouldn't mind a game where you play a jaded burnt out vet who gets roped into an adventure and from his younger companions and the adventure itself gets in touch with his old self. Allowing that spark he once had to return and becoming far stronger for it(wisdom of age tenacity of youth mixed basically especially in a world with magic)

I'm a fan of that.

- - - Updated - - -

sold less then many other ff games which are more japanese in nature.

No what prevents some people from playing JRPGS even though their variety is sooo vast is just the idea of "hurr durr its anime so I won't play it" thats what.

Which is sad because I enjoyed the crap out of FF12.

[Velshin]

I donno about other people, but I personally don't play JRPGs like Personoa because I don't care much for turn based combat.

Not all JRPGs use turn based combat system look at the Tales series combat system is so action oriented in fact. Same goes with Star Ocean series and many more series as well.

[Schattenlied]

Not all JRPGs use turn based combat system look at the Tales series combat system is so action oriented in fact. Same goes with Star Ocean series and many more series as well.

That's why I specified "like persona".

[Tech614]

if the game had more combat or action oriented parts I think it would have been more popular with Western audiences.

What are you even talking about? The game has shipped well over 2 million copies at this point and only 600k or so of those was in Japan.

The majority of P5 sales came from the west. Persona 5 sold double what the next highest Persona game(P4G around 1 mil LIFETIME, P5 2 mil within a week of being out in the west) did within 1 week of being released in the west. If we go to the earlier Persona games it dwarfs them even further. When it's all said and done P5 will have ended up selling 3-4 mil total copies lifetime and had massive growth in popularity particularly in the west. Also, outside of Persona 5 no non Pokemon/Final Fantasy JRPG has even sniffed sales like that in a LONG time.

[Lumineus]

It's the clothing design more than anything. When most of the male protagonists are either Chippendale dancers or eccentric dandies it makes it really hard to take ANY of them seriously.

As for Final Fantasy, it got WAAAAAY too far from its roots in Gigeresque steampunk dystopia, don't even recognize the brand anymore.

[Graeham]

I'm a huge fan of JRPG's.

The only ones I detest are those that design very childlike characters and then put them in sexual situations. I also typically dislike JRPG's that don't have a varied cast in terms of the age of the playable characters - with some exceptions such as Persona 5. I like having at least one or two characters somewhere between the age of 20-45, though anything beyond that doesn't do much for me.

As much as I wanted to enjoy Xenoblade Chronicles 2, though, some of the questionable design decisions for the characters as well as the awkward tropes designed to appeal purely to basement dwellers made me leave it unfinished. Designing a character with huge boobs is one thing. Zooming the camera into them during a scene that is supposed to be emotional and serious is just dumb, especially when a lot of people play JRPG's for the storytelling.

[Chinese Bootlickers]

I say leave JRPG's how they are. I've played many "Western RPG's" Recently and most are dumpster fires.

I'd take cutesy Anime style over Mass Effect Andromeda any day of the week.

Who wouldn't pick anime tiddies over this?

[Katchii]

What are you even talking about? The game has shipped well over 2 million copies at this point and only 600k or so of those was in Japan.

The majority of P5 sales came from the west. Persona 5 sold double what the next highest Persona game(P4G around 1 mil LIFETIME, P5 2 mil within a week of being out in the west) did within 1 week of being released in the west. If we go to the earlier Persona games it dwarfs them even further. When it's all said and done P5 will have ended up selling 3-4 mil total copies lifetime and had massive growth in popularity particularly in the west. Also, outside of Persona 5 no non Pokemon/Final Fantasy JRPG has even sniffed sales like that in a LONG time.

I never said it wasn't successful. I said it would be MORE successful. 2 million units is tiny compared to the 20+ million big franchises have. Not that it's a great RPG example, but Skyrim has sold 30 million, or more, units alongside Diablo.

So again, 2 million might be an improvement over previous performance, but it's still not even close to being as successful as some other games. And I'm not saying it has to be, RPG and JRPG will likely always be a niche genre, but saying that 2 million is fantastic and some super amazing thing is just not that amazing to me.

[Tech614]

I never said it wasn't successful. I said it would be MORE successful. 2 million units is tiny compared to the 20+ million big franchises have. Not that it's a great RPG example, but Skyrim has sold 30 million, or more, units alongside Diablo.

So again, 2 million might be an improvement over previous performance, but it's still not even close to being as successful as some other games. And I'm not saying it has to be, RPG and JRPG will likely always be a niche genre, but saying that 2 million is fantastic and some super amazing thing is just not that amazing to me.

2 million is a crazy amount for the team size and marketing budget of the game, not sure what bs you're trying to claim.

The fact you're trying to compare it to games that have marketing budgets reaching $50-100 mil is laughable. It's the most successful game in Atlus history and made them a lot of money.

The sooner you stop thinking every game should be some AAA blockbuster doing 10s of millions of sales the sooner you have reality in the gaming industry.

[dope_danny]

I never said it wasn't successful. I said it would be MORE successful. 2 million units is tiny compared to the 20+ million big franchises have. Not that it's a great RPG example, but Skyrim has sold 30 million, or more, units alongside Diablo.

So again, 2 million might be an improvement over previous performance, but it's still not even close to being as successful as some other games. And I'm not saying it has to be, RPG and JRPG will likely always be a niche genre, but saying that 2 million is fantastic and some super amazing thing is just not that amazing to me.

Jesus dude thats going full EA shareholder with that thinking. If a game makes millions and makes back its profit hundreds of times over thats all it needs to do. Move onto the next game. You want big sales numbers look at shit like Destiny 2 designed for it. You only get bland white noise games designed for so many people it doesnt know what audience it is aiming for and then very quickly it dies. Not every game needs AAA western 'to please the shareholders' numbers designed for year over year profit increases.

[unholytestament]

Everyone who is convinced that 20+ million is needed to succeed needs to remind themselves that those numbers are only necessary because said games have fucking ridiculous budgets.

Is the game good? Did it sell enough to keep the company running so they can make more? Good. Anything more than that is just extra.

[GennGreymane]

Honestly.... maybe.

[Sigxy]

I would be a lot more happy about being able to tell what gender the main characters are before they open their mouths.. which even then, at times, could be hard to figure out. ;_: So making them older would definitely help.