Vanilla Questing: Was it Good?

[Nutri]

It was primarily <Kill X of these> <Collect X of these> <Go to X> and <Escort NPC to place X>. Of which the last one had NPC's move it normal walking speed and if you got into combat, the NPC would run all the way back to the point he was before combat started. It took freaking forever.

Honourable mention; Enemies's couldn't be faction tagged, meaning only one person or party could get the tag and kill credit. And respawn timers where like 5 minutes. So if you had to kill 10 mobs, and there where 3-4 other players around. This could take a while.
This became painfully real during TBC where Hellfire had a few mobs that needed killing to complete a quest. The masses surrounding the NPC corpse spamming AOE spells was just ridiculous.

And there where quest chains in the likes of <Go to X to kill X number of X, loot X number of X, go to X, kill more of X, loot more of X and get back to X who sends you to X to trade in the X of stuff you looted to go back to X to complete>. Quests could also send you all around both continents to complete.

Needless to say, for a few exceptions, questing was the in it's most basic form.
But, it did bring immersion. You got to know the zones inside out as the quests would pretty much take you to every nook and cranny of the map.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

It was good in the way that quests mattered a lit.
It was bad because there wasn’t many quests, a lot of them were the same, there were no logic behind the locations and paths to do quests and so on.

The best-worst quest has to be with Zul Farrak in Tanaris.
To get the item (mallet) you needed to go to the Hinterlands and do a "outdoor dungeon" which had mobs 5 levels higher than the dungeon (ZF) you were trying to do a quest for. Oh and did I mention that this quest wasn’t really a quest at all but a chain of clickable objects? Meaning no quest description to lead you on the right path. Also the distance you had to cover... even with the lvl 40 mount and the flight paths it would take you a good 30 minutes just to get there.

This isn’t even a "one time bad quest" design. Duskwood, Eastern Plaguelands, Barrens and pretty much every single zone had quests that had you running from point A to B that took 3-4 times more time than the actual quest (if not more).
You also can’t escape the fact that mobs hit damn hard and you had no AOE dps unless you were a Frost Mage and pulling more than 1-2 mobs would guarantee your death in many cases.

Was Vanilla questing good? No.

[Guffnat]

There were a few very cool quest lines, such as the attunement to Onyxia's Lair and Big Game Hunter.
The majority were very repetitive and boiled down to either "Kill X amount of Y" or "Kill X to collect Y amount of Z".

Hunting in Mulgore and The Barrens
Tirion Fordring
Nightswatch in Duskwood
Defias Brotherhood in Westfall/Stormwind
Linken in Un'Goro
Chromie WPL
Blightcaller EPL
... and many more

The design of Legion's WQs does not really differ that much from Vanilla quests. Kill target X, kill X to get Y, kill amount X of Y and their commander Z (hidden behind a progress bar), collect X of Y ... you name it. Sure some quests include vehicles (ride a dragon, gryphon, etc.) but to be honest it is still kill X of Y.

[Ausr]

Ha, hell no. /thread

[Yunru]

Are we there Yeti?

[Trickname]

I'd call vanilla questing a 'lack of thought/development experience' rather than a 'philosophy'. Evident by how the experience helped them develop questing in TBC.

Some parts were fun, be it by design or accident. Often it seemed like a zone was given a story and then an insufficient number of other quests.
The bits I enjoyed were;
1) Being sent across multiple zones for a story (though this has severe diminishing returns)
2) Having elite quests which required groups
3) Having quests tie into the zones dungeon
4) Onyxia attunement

The not so good bits..
Killing the same mobs for an hour to collect an organ just wasn't fun.
Running out of quests and spending hours running around zones looking for quests/grinding wasn't fun
Looking up locations online because the directions were useless in some cases
Go to an amazing zone that the art department worked hard on...only to find one quest there

Overall though, if it simply had a few more quests in each zone then I think I'd have been content. Especially on Alliance, I remember getting honestly frustrated.

[deniter]

The quality of questing in Vanilla is a rather interesting case.
Mechanically speaking, most quests are pretty barebone ("get X items", "kill Y mob", with little to no surprise or additionnal event or whatever). Later design in this area looks much more evolved. As such, it would seem to be much worse than current WoW questing. And many people actually do feel that way.

But many people actually enjoy more the questing in Vanilla. I know I do (MoP is my very favourite questing experience, but after that it's Vanilla). There is some aspect which are plain differences in tastes.
One of the most striking example : many people point at the very movie-like aspect of current WoW questing, like the WoD introduction with constant cinematics, and then claim it's "objectively better" ; well, guess what, I find these Hollywood antics actually boring, predictable and contrived, and I much prefer the simpler and more down-to-earth aspect of the non-cinematic questing in Vanilla.

Samely, some aspects can be both good and bad. Tightly-integrated story with quests advancing the plot can be pretty cool. You see the events progressing under your eyes. At the same time, it gives a "one-time" feels to the world (once the story has happened, the stillness is made more noticeable by contrast) and it makes it subordinate to the story (as in, the world is a background for the story to happens). Inversely, the Vanilla questing is rather "the world exists and some stories happen there". The world is the main event, the stories are the background.

The way the stories are set up change too (though following the general theme of "tighter integration" for modern WoW and "world immersion" for Vanilla). Generally speaking, the more modern WoW is, the more singular it is about the overarching story. In contrast, Vanilla was a LOT of main plots that were all part of the world. This gives to Vanilla a much more vast feeling : things happens everywhere, about different things. It's not all about the latest foe which threaten the world. There is the Elemental Lords in MC, battling the Black Dragonflight and both being danger to everyone in the vicinity. There are trolls in the south trying to revive their evil god. There is the Scourge in the north which if fought for every inch of ground. There is the slow creeping of sillithids in southern Kalimdor. There is remnants of the previous Legion invasion in Northern Kalimdor. And at the same time, there is lots of tribes living their lives everywhere, who are unconcerned by all these events.
It makes for a vaster and more natural world.

Finally, the usual and main point : questing in Vanilla is meaningful. Leveling is slow, so you have the time to enjoy the world, and gear last for a long time, making it relevant. Mob are slow to kill, and can quickly become dangerous if you get adds. Stat gains actually helps you in a noticeable way, instead of just increasing how much overkill you have when you OS foes. As you level up, your gear becomes obsolete and you feel it, so getting better one is really something you look forward. Being able to forge your armor or weapons is very useful. As you'll keep the same items for several levels, it can often be actually worthwhile to take some time to gather materials for crafting an item.
Questing, instead of being a lenghty but irrelevant introduction, or a boring speed bump, IS the game for a long time. Some people, in fact, do nothing but questing and start a new character once they have finished.

So yes, overall, despite and sometimes because of its rather simplistic nature, I actually find questing in Vanilla very enjoyable. More enjoyable than many of the subsequent X-pack in fact - and sometimes just as enjoyable, but in a very different way.

QFT.

I like especially this part:

"Questing in Vanilla is meaningful. Leveling is slow, so you have the time to enjoy the world, and gear last for a long time, making it relevant. Mob are slow to kill, and can quickly become dangerous if you get adds. Stat gains actually helps you in a noticeable way, instead of just increasing how much overkill you have when you OS foes. As you level up, your gear becomes obsolete and you feel it, so getting better one is really something you look forward. Being able to forge your armor or weapons is very useful. As you'll keep the same items for several levels, it can often be actually worthwhile to take some time to gather materials for crafting an item.
Questing, instead of being a lenghty but irrelevant introduction, or a boring speed bump, IS the game for a long time. Some people, in fact, do nothing but questing and start a new character once they have finished".

In vanilla i'm playing the game, while in later expansions i'm only watching how the story evolves. I prefer to be a player, not a watcher.

[Phuongvi]

Compare to today, was is good was it bad,

I can say it was different, I can say I don't hate it but after leveling 2 two toons at max level during Vanilla I can I didn't want to level a third one.

As for today, it's fast, but you dont get attached to the zones since you're there for an hour or 2.
Back then, when you be in The Bareen for two weeks

[Deleted]

QFT.

I like especially this part:

"Questing in Vanilla is meaningful. Leveling is slow, so you have the time to enjoy the world, and gear last for a long time, making it relevant. Mob are slow to kill, and can quickly become dangerous if you get adds. Stat gains actually helps you in a noticeable way, instead of just increasing how much overkill you have when you OS foes. As you level up, your gear becomes obsolete and you feel it, so getting better one is really something you look forward. Being able to forge your armor or weapons is very useful. As you'll keep the same items for several levels, it can often be actually worthwhile to take some time to gather materials for crafting an item.
Questing, instead of being a lenghty but irrelevant introduction, or a boring speed bump, IS the game for a long time. Some people, in fact, do nothing but questing and start a new character once they have finished".

In vanilla i'm playing the game, while in later expansions i'm only watching how the story evolves. I prefer to be a player, not a watcher.

Honestly, I would not mind if they would get rid of levels altogether and would come up with a totally different way of character progression. Like, if you complete important milestones in a storyline of the expansion, you will get a specific skill or spell which you have learned because you have participated there. Or if you reach exalted with a faction, they teach you some kind of secret technique or whatever. But this is not everybody's thing.

[Aggrophobic]

Nope. Questing and leveling was never fun in WoW. It was all about the end game then just as it is now.

[Deleted]

Vanillas design doesn't work anymore. It took lots of time to do anything. I was maybe 15 or 16 in vanilla and had plenty of time as a kid. Now I'm 29 and can't spend hours and hours every day. I can't even raid anymore. The game has changed due to the aging audience. And I am glad for the changes. I have a life to get to sorry lol.

[Gavll]

I'm levelling a alliance rogue (23 now) on retail at the moment and honestly I'd rather be doing the classic versions of these zones.

I hate how meme based all the quests are now

[Vaelorian]

I absolutely loved Vanilla questing. What I did not like in Vanilla was that finding your quest area was not obvious.

for that you had in 2005 going forward thottbot and coords.

Ehm... should I write my entire way of playing. Or should we just assume that I did indeed know about Thottbot and indeed used it - IF the information was available or not misinformation? Regardless... sometimes searching on Thottbot was more timeconsuming then actually searching the area's you required. The bottomline is: It is was not always fun - whatever path you took to do the quests.

[deniter]

Ehm... should I write my entire way of playing. Or should we just assume that I did indeed know about Thottbot and indeed used it - IF the information was available or not misinformation? Regardless... sometimes searching on Thottbot was more timeconsuming then actually searching the area's you required. The bottomline is: It is was not always fun - whatever path you took to do the quests.

I agree that vanilla would have needed some more bread crumb quests. Usually there are at least one at the end of each area but often it's behind an elite quest which many are tempted to skip. On the other hand, this encouraged people to explore the world instead of following certain quest line.

First example of this could be Elwynn Forest at level 5. The opening quest for the zone can be found at one of the farmsteads from a young girl who sends a message to her lover. However, no one at Goldshire does even mention the farmstead let alone give you a quest to go there. It's up to you as a player to go there and explore both farms. And the quest itself is inside one of the buildings, which can't be seen unless you enter the house.

[Vaelorian]

I agree that vanilla would have needed some more bread crumb quests. Usually there are at least one at the end of each area but often it's behind an elite quest which many are tempted to skip. On the other hand, this encouraged people to explore the world instead of following certain quest line.

First example of this could be Elwynn Forest at level 5. The opening quest for the zone can be found at one of the farmsteads from a young girl who sends a message to her lover. However, no one at Goldshire does even mention the farmstead let alone give you a quest to go there. It's up to you as a player to go there and explore both farms. And the quest itself is inside one of the buildings, which can't be seen unless you enter the house.

Oh I am all for the requirement of "exploring" in search for certain quest items or something. I am absolutely in favour of the vanilla quest style. Even with the things that I did not like about it. There has not been one expansion since that I felt the same about the world itself

[Vonazak]

Was boring as hell as most of classic features, but we loved it because it was classic and all was new for us, everything had a soul.

[lummiuster]

So recently I made a video about Vanilla WoW’s quest design and the possibly unintended brilliance behind it.

To summarize the video, Vanilla WoW’s non-linear quest philosophy exposed players to unpredictable adventures that were tackled differently through each playthrough. Additionally, I think the incorporation of professions into ‘regular’ quests brought life and an organic feel to the world.

What do you think? Do you think vanilla questing was good, or terrible compared to today’s modern quest design?

Video reference in signature.

The samophlange quest in the barren... Trying to do it without dying was mission impossible.

[Projectmars]

Hit or Miss. Didn't play Horde, but on the Alliance side the Defias Questline was pretty grand, and Duskwood in general had several epic questlines. Like Stalvan.

[hulkgor]

Yes, it was.

Different, 'harder', with the possibility of getting lost, or losing track of how exactly to complete them, but very good. Ever since they added the "quests on rails" system it just sucks... no hidden quests, no reason to explore.. just follow the blue marks on the map and you'll be lead to every quest in the zone. Funny how every quest is just conveniently on the optimal path through the zone, woohoo... not.

In vanilla, some quests were just crazy, like the turtle escort in Tanaris, especially if you happened to get there without buying your mount yet, that was a laugh.

There were also severely overtuned quests that you had a hard time unless you were higher on levels than intended, or not alone, like the Trial of Strength(?) on Thousand Needles, were you'd get rammed by Harpies. Battle for Darrowshire was awesome. Shit, there are dozens of examples.

More so, the outdoor group quest content like the Elite Quest Chains (Jintha'Alor, Redridge Mountain Orcs, Dun Modr), also butchered in the mean time.

You also had super cool quest lines like the introduction to Tyrion on the Plaguelands or the massive chain to attune to Onyxia on both factions.

Yes, it was good. Had some issues of course, but it was -very- good.

[lummiuster]

Vanillas design doesn't work anymore. It took lots of time to do anything. I was maybe 15 or 16 in vanilla and had plenty of time as a kid. Now I'm 29 and can't spend hours and hours every day. I can't even raid anymore. The game has changed due to the aging audience. And I am glad for the changes. I have a life to get to sorry lol.

That everything takes a lot of time was the good thing. There is a contradiction in what your comment.
You say things take too much time and that you don't have time to raid. But the thing is this is an issue related to current wow and does not apply to vanilla. In current wow, all that matters is max level content (raid). In vanilla, since leveling would take so long, everything was relevant especially low level content. Being level 14 and acquiring the full deadmine or Wailing cavern leather set was as important and rewarding as completing Nighthold in 7.1.0.