I Cant Wait For the Raiding Scene To Die

[bigbleach]

Maybe then the MMO genre will evolve.

Just think about it.
Where would we be today if "raids" were no longer the pillar of the MMO genre?
Dont get me wrong, i like raids but do they really have to be the highest point of a MMO?
Why are all MMO's centered around this idea that "raids" need to be the pillar of everything?

So much wasted potential on a open world genre and we have to accept that the highest point of it is "raids"...pisses me off.

If you are reading this and you like raiding then i'm sorry. I would be mad if someone else said the same thing about PvP.
But man, seriously, it really makes me salty that "raiding" is considered the highest pinnacle of gameplay in MMO's.

An MMO is a genre of endless possibilities.
Guilds of players could take over the open world.
I could be a "wanted" criminal for killing other players and having a price on my head.

I dont know what the future of MMO's is but "raids" is not it.

Just another day waiting for the MMO genre to evolve. Nothing new here.

That's like asking for a pokemon game without an elite 4. Many MMO's have tried to do big pvp areas, even realm vs realm, always lackluster and the novelty wears out fast. Would we just get a lot of quests? ... There isn't much you can do in an mmo, tbh. You can either group players together to take out eachother, or group them together to kill a big ass boss. Expecting much else anytime soon is silly.

[Wrecktangle]

Maybe then the MMO genre will evolve.

Just think about it.
Where would we be today if "raids" were no longer the pillar of the MMO genre?
Dont get me wrong, i like raids but do they really have to be the highest point of a MMO?
Why are all MMO's centered around this idea that "raids" need to be the pillar of everything?

So much wasted potential on a open world genre and we have to accept that the highest point of it is "raids"...pisses me off.

If you are reading this and you like raiding then i'm sorry. I would be mad if someone else said the same thing about PvP.
But man, seriously, it really makes me salty that "raiding" is considered the highest pinnacle of gameplay in MMO's.

An MMO is a genre of endless possibilities.
Guilds of players could take over the open world.
I could be a "wanted" criminal for killing other players and having a price on my head.

I dont know what the future of MMO's is but "raids" is not it.

Just another day waiting for the MMO genre to evolve. Nothing new here.

Can you give say 5 examples of "pinnacle" content forms that you're interested in?

Like describe how content would work, possible reward structures, scaling, etc.

[Deleted]

That's like asking for a pokemon game without an elite 4. Many MMO's have tried to do big pvp areas, even realm vs realm, always lackluster and the novelty wears out fast. Would we just get a lot of quests? ... There isn't much you can do in an mmo, tbh. You can either group players together to take out eachother, or group them together to kill a big ass boss. Expecting much else anytime soon is silly.

MMO's are a pit of endless possibilities.
Do you think MMO's right now resembe "real life" in any way?
Just an example:
1) A game where the players become famous by their activities in the game. The players can change and interact with the world (in some way) and become famous on the server.
Be it by conquering a village and getting all the gold NPC's there make. (PvE)
Or maybe killing other players makes you a criminal and gives you a bounty on your head. (PvP)
Player created content like transmogs or places could give you fame on the server.
Important and very hard to level professions

A world where the "players" shape the world and become more famous than "PvE bosses" in the game.

I dont know, but im pretty sure MMO's have not reached their maximum potential just yet.
And i'm pretty sure the MMO genre will rise from the ashes as soon as someone makes something revolutionary with the polish that almost only Blizzard can do.

[Coldkil]

The basic assumption of MMOs is that it is supposed to promote group play and cooperation. That principle logically entails that the pinacle of progression will always be some form of group content. If you get rid of raiding then something else of the same general form will replace it whether it's mythic+ or whatever. Unless of couse, you are willing to accept the old formula of MMORPG that the best possible items can come from exploration aka sheer luck without any control imposed upon it.

The solution imo is just to distribute the incentives more evenly thus reducing the importance of raiding by a bit but then people would still complain that they are forced to do content they don't want to in order to progress like farming rep, dungeons, questing, etc.

I agree with this. I think though that the focus can be even more shofted towards smaller groups. The time when 20 people banded together and met their free night to down a boss is (unfortunately for some aspects) ended; people like more game structures wehere you can play in groups either with your friends or with random people.

Reason why the new LFD tool in WoW is super popular. People had trouble raiding because finding a group was hard. Now it's completely different.

In an utopic universe you would have a game where all content scales based on group size and is perfectly balanced, but we all know it's impossible

EDIT: the whole point of MMOs is to make players interact. Be it in a coordinated effort or against each other or both. Raids as in the classic WoW implementation have gone a long way from Vanilla and i'm sure new MMOs will explore other ways to achieve this.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

MMO's are a pit of endless possibilities.
Do you think MMO's right now resembe "real life" in any way?
Just an example:
1) A game where the players become famous by their activities in the game. The players can change and interact with the world (in some way) and become famous on the server.
Be it by conquering a village and getting all the gold NPC's there make. (PvE)
Or maybe killing other players makes you a criminal and gives you a bounty on your head. (PvP)
Player created content like transmogs or places could give you fame on the server.
Important and very hard to level professions

A world where the "players" shape the world and become more famous than "PvE bosses" in the game.

I dont know, but im pretty sure MMO's have not reached their maximum potential just yet.
And i'm pretty sure the MMO genre will rise from the ashes as soon as someone makes something revolutionary with the polish that almost only Blizzard can do.

Plenty of games besides WoW out there more similar to what you want.

[Rafoel]

Evolve.. you keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

[f3llyn]

Maybe then the MMO genre will evolve.

Just think about it.
Where would we be today if "raids" were no longer the pillar of the MMO genre?
Dont get me wrong, i like raids but do they really have to be the highest point of a MMO?
Why are all MMO's centered around this idea that "raids" need to be the pillar of everything?

So much wasted potential on a open world genre and we have to accept that the highest point of it is "raids"...pisses me off.

If you are reading this and you like raiding then i'm sorry. I would be mad if someone else said the same thing about PvP.
But man, seriously, it really makes me salty that "raiding" is considered the highest pinnacle of gameplay in MMO's.

An MMO is a genre of endless possibilities.
Guilds of players could take over the open world.
I could be a "wanted" criminal for killing other players and having a price on my head.

I dont know what the future of MMO's is but "raids" is not it.

Just another day waiting for the MMO genre to evolve. Nothing new here.

Try Black Desert Online. It's entire end game is is pvp and nothing that could be considered a traditional raid exists in that game.

[corebit]

MMO's are a pit of endless possibilities.
Do you think MMO's right now resembe "real life" in any way?
Just an example:
1) A game where the players become famous by their activities in the game. The players can change and interact with the world (in some way) and become famous on the server.
Be it by conquering a village and getting all the gold NPC's there make. (PvE)
Or maybe killing other players makes you a criminal and gives you a bounty on your head. (PvP)
Player created content like transmogs or places could give you fame on the server.
Important and very hard to level professions

A world where the "players" shape the world and become more famous than "PvE bosses" in the game.

I dont know, but im pretty sure MMO's have not reached their maximum potential just yet.
And i'm pretty sure the MMO genre will rise from the ashes as soon as someone makes something revolutionary with the polish that almost only Blizzard can do.

"Endless possibilities", "evolve", "revolutionary," your posts are full of these generic buzzwords that mean anything to anyone. If you can't list a single MMO right now that meets your needs, and there are tons of then out there, then more than likely your head is stuck way too high in the idealistic stratosphere.

[prwraith]

I could be a "wanted" criminal for killing other players and having a price on my head.

Sounds fucking awful.

[Deleted]

"Endless possibilities", "evolve", "revolutionary," your posts are full of these generic buzzwords that mean anything to anyone. If you can't list a single MMO right now that meets your needs, and there are tons of then out there, then more than likely your head is stuck way too high in the idealistic stratosphere.

Because i believe MMO's will be the most played genre on the market....at some point in the future when someone makes something amazing.
Thats just what i believe.

[Ielenia]

Just think about it.
Where would we be today if "raids" were no longer the pillar of the MMO genre?

Probably playing single-player games for the PvE experience, or playing CoD/Battlefield/any online FPS for the PvP experience.

Also, have a plush chair. If you're waiting for raiding to die, you'll be waiting a loooong time, so might as well get comfortable.

[Deleted]

It's been dead for a long time bro.

I guess it bears an honorary resemblance to OP's common sense

[Daevied]

The only thing that wow needs is Realm only Wars, with guild taking over castles and defending them twice a week from other guilds. Not a bg, maybe instanced in an open zone. That would liven up the servers in no time and make guilds and guildnames relevant again, give the winner some kind of brag cosmetic too.

[Alydael]

Maybe then the MMO genre will evolve.

Just think about it.
Where would we be today if "raids" were no longer the pillar of the MMO genre?
Dont get me wrong, i like raids but do they really have to be the highest point of a MMO?
Why are all MMO's centered around this idea that "raids" need to be the pillar of everything?

So much wasted potential on a open world genre and we have to accept that the highest point of it is "raids"...pisses me off.

If you are reading this and you like raiding then i'm sorry. I would be mad if someone else said the same thing about PvP.
But man, seriously, it really makes me salty that "raiding" is considered the highest pinnacle of gameplay in MMO's.

An MMO is a genre of endless possibilities.
Guilds of players could take over the open world.
I could be a "wanted" criminal for killing other players and having a price on my head.

I dont know what the future of MMO's is but "raids" is not it.

Just another day waiting for the MMO genre to evolve. Nothing new here.

I enjoy raids and actively raid as well. I do agree that they do "hurt" the creativity of the mmo genre and have held it back from evolving further.

It provides a somewhat "lazy" way of the Devs adding "content."

I also don't think it should be the vehicle to get the best gear in a game. Think about it: right now the "pinnacle" of a challenge for some mmo's involves fighting a computer opponent that does the same moves everytime (often on a timer) and there is probably a hundred different videos online how to do it. Not only that, but it is a "group" that does it. We all know, in every group known to man (even outside of mmos) there are people that carry the group, some in the middle and some that get carried. Not to mention, the selling of runs and the toxicity of things like "Normal Antorus- AOTC and 945 ilevel req."

Taking all that in, you do have to wonder why there is such emphasis on them.

I am not saying raiding isn't challenging and fun (I have been actively raiding for many years- so I like them)- I just don't think it should be considered the pinnacle or be the primary focus of new content for a game.

I would like to see mmos focus more on the world. Making the open world a living viable place that is active and fun to explore. It kind of sux that most of the new content (for some mmos) is basically a castle you storm filled with computer generated opponents who do they exact same thing each time you fight them....

These mmo's have their roots in table taop rpg styles games. They should go back to focusing on the elements that made those adventures exciting- they have gotten way too formulamatic in their approach.

[Shadowsgrace]

Ever hear of "Evolutionary Dead Ends"? Don't think the death of Raiding will make MMO's better.

[RuneDK]

The only thing that wow needs is Realm only Wars, with guild taking over castles and defending them twice a week from other guilds. Not a bg, maybe instanced in an open zone. That would liven up the servers in no time and make guilds and guildnames relevant again, give the winner some kind of brag cosmetic too.

Knowing your realm and players on it is one of the only things I miss about Vanilla...I made a name of myself on my realm with my mage...there were countless others who made a name for themselves as well as guilds who did...I miss the feeling of a server. I would love for them to connect more realms or merge numerous ones into one and bring back better faction ratios per server. WoW felt like a community then, and that is honestly the only thing I really dislike about current wow.

[Deleted]

So what you're really saying is that you like PvP and people who like PvE are wrong. Right.

[kraid]

Maybe then the MMO genre will evolve.

Just think about it.
Where would we be today if "raids" were no longer the pillar of the MMO genre?
Dont get me wrong, i like raids but do they really have to be the highest point of a MMO?
Why are all MMO's centered around this idea that "raids" need to be the pillar of everything?

So much wasted potential on a open world genre and we have to accept that the highest point of it is "raids"...pisses me off.

If you are reading this and you like raiding then i'm sorry. I would be mad if someone else said the same thing about PvP.
But man, seriously, it really makes me salty that "raiding" is considered the highest pinnacle of gameplay in MMO's.

An MMO is a genre of endless possibilities.
Guilds of players could take over the open world.
I could be a "wanted" criminal for killing other players and having a price on my head.

I dont know what the future of MMO's is but "raids" is not it.

Just another day waiting for the MMO genre to evolve. Nothing new here.

OP I get you, but the scene is not dying anytime soon, I bet you read about star wars galaxies in its original form, a game which focus was not really combat, there were players who logged in only to play as tradesman,a dancer, a blacksmith and only did combat like...once in while or never.
sadly wow is all about that raids and now mythic+, but don't let that stop you, one can play in another way, for example once Im done leveling my nightborne I'm gonna level dwarf on moonguard, learn blacksmith and spent most of my gametime selling low level armor for adventurers and guards.

[Enkrypt]

What we have here, folks, is a critical misunderstanding of the word evolve and the stubbornness of a mule. People are literally telling this person there is a game that caters to what he wants. But who cares about that! I think the moral of this thread is that he doesn't like raiding, and wants it gone for no other reason than... because he doesn't like it.

Wants raiding gone, offers no viable replacement. Wants to have a bounty on his head for... world PVP?

Wut?

[mvaliz]

You are talking about "evolving" to something that has been tried, and has failed every time... .

..?

Failed?

Ultima Online and Everquest were failures!? o_O

Star Wars Galaxies was also a success... until they started radically overhauling the game engine every 6 months because "reasons" - causing everybody to flee, especially when they tried to make it more like Warcraft in the end. =/

Also, it really seems to me that the MMOs that fail are those who try to emulate World of Warcraft. Best case in point, Star Wars: Galaxies in the end, nevermind all the others... including Star Wars: The Old Republic