Nationalism: Is it ok?

[united]

Imo, there's nothing more nebulous than the idea of globalism. We don't even know exactly how it would work, so how the hell should the whole makind embrace the unknown ?

We can work in cooperation as nations, the idea of globalism is unnecessary and scary.

Fair point

[Player Twelve]

It is because you’re a nationalist and you’re saying that it’s not racist.

No, it isn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plurinationalism

Are all these racist? No.

[Maybach]

[QUOTE=united;48909064]what kind of nationalism do you believe in? ethnic?

Oh dear God you really do not read what people put here do you

I do not give a damn about peoples ethnicity, I don't care where people are born, I don't care what creed they follow, it is absolutely irrelevant to the fact that I love my country on the basis of the freedom I enjoy, I love the cultural aspects of my country, its architecture, its literature

Please tell me what part of that sense of nationalism and national pride is bad?

[united]

You can appreciate other countries but you can't really be proud of something you are in no way part of. Kind of part and parcel with the word pride.

But why would you be “proud” of being anything? I mean pride should be something you work hard for, not happening to be born in a certain country

[Deldavala]

Why can’t you find pride in other countries?

For one, my family or myself has not been part of shaping other countries. I ofc admire other countries for different things, but the pride for Norway is something different. I am not dismissing the accomplishment of other nations or look down on different cultures, and I am not saying the Norwegian culture/nation is better than someone elses. But still I am proud to be a Norwegian.

[united]

For one, my family or myself has not been part of shaping other countries. I ofc admire other countries for different things, but the pride for Norway is something different. I am not dismissing the accomplishment of other nations or look down on different cultures, and I am not saying the Norwegian culture/nation is better than someone elses. But still I am proud to be a Norwegian.

Okay, I can see that point.

[dark666105]

But why would you be “proud” of being anything? I mean pride should be something you work hard for, not happening to be born in a certain country

Because assuming you aren't a waste of flesh, you actually contribute to the society you are a part of.

[united]

No, it isn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plurinationalism

Are all these racist? No.

idk religious nationalism can be pretty racist

[Player Twelve]

idk religious nationalism can be pretty racist

How?

10chars

[united]

Alright guys, I can see your point of view. I retract saying that ALL nationalism is racist but I still stand by the assertion that most nationalists on the global stage today are pretty hateful.

[infinit]

But why would you be “proud” of being anything? I mean pride should be something you work hard for, not happening to be born in a certain country

ill notify the gay and black pride people. as neither have to work to be gay or black.

[Doctor Amadeus]

How?

10chars

The Inquisition?

[united]

How?

10chars

let’s look at islam majority countries. If you go against the mold or dare to do anything else (or even just look different) you’re persecuted. They don’t identify as nationalists but that’s what they are

[Player Twelve]

let’s look at islam majority countries. If you go against the mold or dare to do anything else (or even just look different) you’re persecuted. They don’t identify as nationalists but that’s what they are

That's literally not racism if they are applying religious rules.

[dark666105]

The Inquisition?

Naw, they didn't care about the color of your skin, as long as you were a completely devout catholic completely devoted to the church. Oh and that they didn't want anything you had that they would want to kill you for.

[Player Twelve]

The Inquisition?

How was that even racist?

[dark666105]

let’s look at islam majority countries. If you go against the mold or dare to do anything else (or even just look different) you’re persecuted. They don’t identify as nationalists but that’s what they are

However they couldn't care less the color of your skin, as long as you are a devout muslim.

[united]

ill notify the gay and black pride people. as neither have to work to be gay or black.

they’re proud because they have to figure out a way thrive in a country where they’re the minority, and have been discriminated against.

[Deleted]

Man, it's almost as if the bad things our ancestors did continues to have a systemic negative impact on people that is impossible to resolve as long as idiots keep running around claiming that history has no bearing on the present.

Man, it's almost as if the good things our ancestors did continue to have a systemic positive impact on people that is impossible to maintain as long as idiots keep running around claiming that history has no bearing on the present.

We should probably own all of our history. Good and bad. It's not a bad thing to be patriotic and proud of the good things that our ancestors did. We should actively strive to correct the mistakes they made also.

[tttsssrrr]

This question equals to asking if the concept of nation is ok, since the concept of nationalism is implicitly part of the very concept of nation. If you think nations are a bad thing, just think on how we advanced much more as state nations than as feuds or isolated tribes.

So, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of nationalism, and this concept is as old as the concept of nations. The problems is not nationalism itself, the real problem is the aggressive form of nationalism, called jingoism.

Saying nationalism is bad due to jingoism (or fascism) is the same as saying than saying the idea of equality is bad due to communism.

But so far, on this thread, i haven't seen anyone that opposes the concept of nationalism giving a valid reason for it. Their deepest argument are: "its dumb", "it's outdated", "muh racism", or "muh fascism".

This is the crux of it. The success of the nation state is the primary obstacle to the advances of international socialism. Communism didn't spread across America like it did in Russia because of the success of Capitalism in elevating the standard of living for the common man. If the left can successfully link the worse excesses of nationalism, as practiced in Germany and Italy during WWII, to the concept of the existence of the nation state; they will have a lot of power in controlling the terms of debate in determining the political course of the country (and the eventual erosion of it). Communism was eventually divorced from economics and married to the culture to create Critical Theory, but the end game goal remains the same.

If you asked me, Nation States are the porridge that Goldilocks chose. Not so small as tribes and kingdoms, as to lack security and resources. Not so big as empires that try to bring disparate cultures under the hegemony of a single flag.