Tuition Fees: YAY or NAY?

[Allybeboba]

Post H.S. education needs an overhaul. Not everyone needs a top notch university degree though. There is absolutely no reason that junior college tuitions and text books shouldn’t be publicly funded for everyone that wants it and that qualifies for it.

Peace

[Exedore]

Yes, tuition fees should exist, and governments shouldn't be paying for it.

The problem with rapidly rising tuition in the U.S. has significant roots in easy to obtain government loans. Universities realized they can get more money from the government by enrolling more people and you can charge more because the government gives you the money. At no point in the process is anyone checking that a good investment was being made. That's why you see people with college degrees working at Starbucks.

Tuition fees force students and potential students to consider the return-on-investment and therefore their future. "Is a C+ in Underwater Basket Weaving going to get me a job anywhere?" and "Can a job for which I need this degree reasonably cover my loan debts?" Maybe there's a better choice like a trade school or pursuing a different degree. Giving students free rides through college certainly won't fix any problems.

[Ozyorkbourne]

So currently in the UK there's a debate about Tuition Fees for Universities and whether or not they should be lowered or even abolished. So my question is this: Are you in favour of Tuition Fees or not?

I myself am actually on the fence. When I was younger I was against Tuition Fees but as I got older the more pros I saw in it... Pros such as incentives to do well and get a job, more financed Universities and less people joining Uni just for 'fun'.

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I graduated from Staffordshire University in 2016. There should definitely be a fee and for an employable degree, £7000-£9000 isn't as apocalyptic as it sounds, especially since you can get £4000-£5000 in non-accommodation grants.

I started in the first or second year of high tuition and the lecturers often commented about the quality of the group, because no one was there for the 'experience'. I do feel like £9k is a touch high but I completely agree with the current push to enforce a lower cap on less employable degrees indefinitely until their employability rises via (1) more jobs in those fields or (2) less people doing the degree and less competing for the positions.

We get A-levels from college free so yeah, i'm pro-tuition-fee but think less employable degrees should have lower caps. I saw a uniersity dean try to explain the debt away saying if it isn't paid in 30 years the govt writes it off. But that means the government loaned students money which they gave to the university and the government is now out of pocket. The money didn't misappear, it's now in university pockets. From this, Universities should definitely reduce some degrees cost.

This is a VERY different debate in the UK than the USA though.

[Polarthief]

Tuition fees make no sense IMO, considering that you literally cannot get into the best schools/universities without a rich relative willing to pay for it, even if you do exceedingly well. You literally have to win the lottery based on the family you get born into on top of also doing above-and-beyond in school.

[Grimbold21]

I left my country to pursue a masters degree in another where tuition doesn't exist.

So, nay

[Antiganon]

Yes, tuition fees should exist, and governments shouldn't be paying for it.

The problem with rapidly rising tuition in the U.S. has significant roots in easy to obtain government loans. Universities realized they can get more money from the government by enrolling more people and you can charge more because the government gives you the money. At no point in the process is anyone checking that a good investment was being made. That's why you see people with college degrees working at Starbucks.

Tuition fees force students and potential students to consider the return-on-investment and therefore their future. "Is a C+ in Underwater Basket Weaving going to get me a job anywhere?" and "Can a job for which I need this degree reasonably cover my loan debts?" Maybe there's a better choice like a trade school or pursuing a different degree. Giving students free rides through college certainly won't fix any problems.

Wouldn't have anything to do with an entire generation (Baby boomers) telling their children that they were going to amount to nothing without a college degree, and that success was guaranteed if you had literally any degree.

Nope.

Clearly it's the fault of the government for backing the loans, not the people that pushed their children into a lifetime of debt many of them will never be able to pay off in a reasonable time frame.

In my family, and in my high school, to even consider an alternate career path to college was tantamount to treason. You were obviously a terrible, lazy mooch who wanted to live off mommy and daddy for your entire life, regardless of what your actual plan was.

I wound up with a BA in Media Arts, focused on Video Production, primarily post-production and editing. I work doing over-the-phone tech support on accounting software for end users at local SMBs. I could have done this job with the knowledge I had in high school, saved myself about $50k in debt that I can't discharge even in bankruptcy, and spent the last 13 years earning a decent salary, instead of 6 years in school, 5 years working retail for minimum wage, and two years earning a decent salary.

[Adverserious]

Trade school, yes.

Basic 4 year degree in liberal arts, no.

[caervek]

So currently in the UK there's a debate about Tuition Fees for Universities and whether or not they should be lowered or even abolished. So my question is this: Are you in favour of Tuition Fees or not?

In favour, because if a prospective student doesn't think that their course of choice will give them employment and future earnings prospects worth taking out a loan for, then why the **** should I think it's worth giving them my money for?

If anything in the UK we need people to be less pushed towards waster courses and pushed more towards learning actual trades. Thanks to 90's labour trying to make it possible for everyone who wanted to to do a degree in whatever worthless subject they feel like we have a huge shortage of tradesmen in the UK and we're reliant on foreign labour. It's borderline hilarious when you see people with degrees in performing arts/media studies and no real skills moaning about European electricians, gas engineers, joiners, etc "taking their jobs" XD

[Babadoo]

You can't put price on education so no. No tuition is milion times more beneficial for the society.

[zenkai]

So currently in the UK there's a debate about Tuition Fees for Universities and whether or not they should be lowered or even abolished. So my question is this: Are you in favour of Tuition Fees or not?

I myself am actually on the fence. When I was younger I was against Tuition Fees but as I got older the more pros I saw in it... Pros such as incentives to do well and get a job, more financed Universities and less people joining Uni just for 'fun'.

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I think there needs to be some soft of investment so that people who enroll are not wasting resources.

[Endus]

I don't agree that tuition fees should be abolished, but they should be affordable. And not in a "mortgage your life for the next 40 years" type of "affordable". You should be able to work part-time/full-time in the summers, at min-wage work, and be able to live in the dorm and pay your tuition, while living pretty sparely, leaving you the option of digging into some debt or getting better work to improve that quality of life, but still leaving it affordable for all. In Canada, it's about 3k/term (3 terms a year, most undergrad programs work on a 2-terms-a-year basis unless there's work study included), and that's getting pretty close (still a BIT high, but not far off).

The reason I don't think they should be abolished is because people tend to value things based on what they cost. It's why so many students don't give a shit in public school; it doesn't cost them or their parents a dime, directly, so fuck it. Keeping SOME tuition fee lets you weed out the people who are arsing about, who won't throw money away, while ensuring anyone who DOES want post-secondary education can easily attain it.

Also, provide support such as childcare and the like for single moms who want an education but can't afford a sitter, and the like. Mitigate those issues so the only practical barrier is the drive to learn.

[Elegiac]

I've never understood why people feel they're owed an education.

Because society has operated with the expectation that public education be provided at no cost for over a century now? Lol.

[Puupi]

I reminder to Americans

College is free
University isn't

What?

Also, what's the difference between college and university in this context?

[Elegiac]

I don't agree that tuition fees should be abolished, but they should be affordable. And not in a "mortgage your life for the next 40 years" type of "affordable". You should be able to work part-time/full-time in the summers, at min-wage work, and be able to live in the dorm and pay your tuition, while living pretty sparely, leaving you the option of digging into some debt or getting better work to improve that quality of life, but still leaving it affordable for all. In Canada, it's about 3k/term (3 terms a year, most undergrad programs work on a 2-terms-a-year basis unless there's work study included), and that's getting pretty close (still a BIT high, but not far off).

The reason I don't think they should be abolished is because people tend to value things based on what they cost. It's why so many students don't give a shit in public school; it doesn't cost them or their parents a dime, directly, so fuck it. Keeping SOME tuition fee lets you weed out the people who are arsing about, who won't throw money away, while ensuring anyone who DOES want post-secondary education can easily attain it.

Also, provide support such as childcare and the like for single moms who want an education but can't afford a sitter, and the like. Mitigate those issues so the only practical barrier is the drive to learn.

The counter argument to this is that, in the US at least, tertiary education has become pretty much mandatory for gainful employment in the civilized areas of the country; that access to the market has become gated behind college makes an excellent case that college tuition should be treated exactly like primary and secondary education, in that we have a basic expectation that most people should have that level of education and therefore the financial barriers to obtaining such should be removed.

[Antiganon]

I've never understood why people feel they're owed an education.

Because their tax dollars pay to fund public education, including state-run/funded post-secondary education?

[Deleted]

I'm in favor of reasonable tuition fees. Nothing wrong with expecting young adults to have a job and pay for their education. If you can reasonably pay for something, we should expect you to instead of giving you a handout.

[judgementofantonidas]

So currently in the UK there's a debate about Tuition Fees for Universities and whether or not they should be lowered or even abolished. So my question is this: Are you in favour of Tuition Fees or not?

I myself am actually on the fence. When I was younger I was against Tuition Fees but as I got older the more pros I saw in it... Pros such as incentives to do well and get a job, more financed Universities and less people joining Uni just for 'fun'.

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The teachers need to be paid. The fees encured by the school need to be paid. Its either tuition or higher taxes. Until educators don't need to eat like the rest of us there will always be some form of fee attached. Maybe we could spend time automating edutaction rather than McDonalds.

[msdos]

Civilized nations offer free education on all levels for the sake of equality of opporturnity.

This is going to be silently ignored because people are full of hate and looking for excuses to project it.

[Endus]

The counter argument to this is that, in the US at least, tertiary education has become pretty much mandatory for gainful employment in the civilized areas of the country; that access to the market has become gated behind college makes an excellent case that college tuition should be treated exactly like primary and secondary education, in that we have a basic expectation that most people should have that level of education and therefore the financial barriers to obtaining such should be removed.

There are a lot of jobs that don't require post-secondary education, and which you can build up from. They aren't the best jobs, but you can start out flipping burgers at a McDonalds and end up in management, without needing post-secondary. In a lot of cases, with those kinds of companies, when you DO reach a point where you'd need that education, the employer often is willing to pay for training for good employees who are up for a promotion.

I agree we're heading that way, I just don't see that we're there yet.

[Elegiac]

There are a lot of jobs that don't require post-secondary education, and which you can build up from. They aren't the best jobs, but you can start out flipping burgers at a McDonalds and end up in management, without needing post-secondary. In a lot of cases, with those kinds of companies, when you DO reach a point where you'd need that education, the employer often is willing to pay for training for good employees who are up for a promotion.

I agree we're heading that way, I just don't see that we're there yet.

Then why not simply bite the bullet and future-proof? Especially considering that we're also approaching a point where a lot of people aren't going to be employable by virtue of automation; how are people to be expected to afford tertiary education with no income?

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Typically lefty that doesn't understand what taxes are.

Thing thing I pay to support the shitty red states? Yeah, I'm quite familiar with them.