Death Knights Shafted Once Again...

[Felrane]

Blizzard could easily just add a questline for Deathknights. You go capture each of the new allied races. Kill them. Then reanimate them yourself as the Deathlord letting you unlock the races. They would start at level 20 just like everyone else.

[Pooti]

except all dk ability's come at level 55 so they would have to find away to spread that out and also explain why a dk was at northshire Abby. the reason hero classes start so high is because it makes no sense for them to be novices. DK's and DH's are all ready very strong as shown in there intro. DH's take a demon world and DK's wipe out the scarlet crusade and take on lights hope

Yes it would require those classes to skip the usual class unique start zone and start in the race specific start zone with abilities handed out in some intervals that make sense gameplay wise. I am not advocating this, just stating what it would take to "make sense".

[Aurabolt]

It will likely never happen until they create a new starting zone

...This.

And at this point, I believe it's now time to do this lorewise as of Legion. More so now that it's been established that DKs can raise new DKs. They can just have DKs start at level 55 in Orgrimmar or Stormwind. A Bronze Dragonflight member offers to send you to Acherus if you want to experience the original DK Starting Experience but only for a limited time (Can't do it once you hit level 59). Otherwise, you can just quest until 58 like normal. An Ebon Blade liason will teach you the Death Gate Spell so you can have access to Runeforging. Outside that, you level like normal.

The Lore explaination:

"In the years since the Fall of the Lich King Arthas, the Death Knights of Acherus have fought on countless battlefields to secure their place as unrelenting heroes of Azeroth. With the Legion's defeat assured, The Knights of the Ebon Blade have shifted focus to satisfy the Endless Hunger that drives them from one battlefield to the next. As new threats emerge, fallen heroes are given a second chance as Death Knights to help protect their world."

This would be the cover story to explain why Allied Races + Pandaren can be DKs. It would also explain a sudden increase in the number of DKs since the Legion Invasion began.

[Enkrypt]

Well considering they literally released allied races to boost BFA pre-sales I'd say I lost a lot. Content I can never use because of the class I play? LOL
"Enjoy the new Allied Races everyone...unless you play Demon Hunters and Death Knights then F*uck you hahaha" - Blizzard 2018

You act like Demon Hunter and Death Knights are the only ones with class restrictions.

There's Paladins.

There's Druids.

There's Shaman.

You're aware the ONLY class that can be ALL races is Warrior, right? Quit acting like you're a victim. Play a different class if you want to be an Allied Race instead of just crying like a helpless infant.

[Marrilaife]

Highmountain Tauren have 0 cloth classes.

Lightforged have 0 leather classes. Here goes my dream of making my monk a lightforged draenei.

[Thimagryn]

This would be the cover story to explain why Allied Races + Pandaren can be DKs. It would also explain a sudden increase in the number of DKs since the Legion Invasion began.

If effort was all that was required for something like this to happen, then we wouldn't have reskins/reskeletons of existing races in the first place. There's no reason why they would be cutting corners for an expansion feature, then put that effort back into something that has little-to-no relevance in BFA.

I don't question that they can make new DH options either, and they even explained that they could expand races in the future. I doubt they would suddenly do so right after Legion just because Demon Hunters no longer have Demons to fight in BFA. Their lore takes a backseat to the bigger narrative they're pushing for BFA.

[Sorrior]

Because that wouldn't make any sense. You're original race death knight, not some fluffy pandaren DK, not some skinny elf DK... You're epic original race Death Knight.

Technically we are 3rd or 4th generation death knights

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Hey, you know what I want!!!??? I want Draenai and Tauren Warlocks, I want Gnome shamans, Dwarf and BE Druids, I want access to things I can't have because Blizzard doesn't want it that way!
Sheesh, give it a rest. I get it. There's a new race and you want to play it as a specific class. Guess what, you can't!

I mean dwarf druid isn't THAT much of a stretch and given they cpassed gilnean human nature mages under druid nor is BE THAT lorebreaking..would be INSANELY rare buut makes more sense then tauren pallies. And fits under the same ruleset of "if they use similar magic just call them x class"

- - - Updated - - -

That it hasn't happened is all the difference considering there is a pandaren death knight and we don't have that option. Don't care what people think is narratively plausible because it doesn't change what Blizzard chooses to do. We have shit that don't make sense like NE mages and they made it happen. Same with holy cows. There is no reason to us why any race can't be any class. The only limitation is the one set by Blizzard. 'The rsst of us' can't change their intended direction. Its not a matter of being unable to change or explain allied race death knights, rather it is one of them not wanting to.

The only allied races they allow are ones that they choose to fit in the wrath timeline, unless you can show me that allied race dks have new lore under Bolvar. Like I said, we have no indication they want DK lore to move forward even if we can all accept that the lore can move forward and have Bolvar DKs like the new Four Horsemen. That is just unnecessary work and we can observe that the Allied Races are born out of their need to create substantial content out of minimal effort

Lorewise, every race that has warriors and priests shouldbbe able to have Paladins. The fact that we don't isn't due to a lack of creativity or effort. It's intentional for whatever reasons they choose it to be. Cows don't fight for justice any more than a gnome, night elf or worgen would. They just added them for game balance reasons during cata, then lored their way out of implausibility.

Getting other classes mixed in their are NE pallies now too

In all honesty i feel like BfA was the PERFECT chance to redo leveling zones and class restrictions.

The legion JUST invaded it can show that anx us picking up after the wars(as well as reflect the war between alliance and horde picking up) they can redo start zones since teldrassil is gone(which i fricken hate) and redo the be and draenei areas FINALLY having them reflect modern lore.

I mean in all honesty so much has happemed i think it is really about time they did it..maybe pist BfA but world NEEDS an update

[bloodmoth13]

This isnt shafting death knights, its arguably shafting the allied races but thats a stretch isnt it? its like saying druids are shafted because not every race can be a druid -_-

Personally i wish they were as restrictive on death knights as they were on demon hunters. they made a mistake allowing worgen and draenie to be death knights imo.
If it were up to me, death knight races would be: orc, troll, forsaken, blood elf - human, dwarf, night elf and thats it.
Death knight should have been one of the more race restricted classes

[vertigo12]

This isnt shafting death knights, its arguably shafting the allied races but thats a stretch isnt it? its like saying druids are shafted because not every race can be a druid -_-

Personally i wish they were as restrictive on death knights as they were on demon hunters. they made a mistake allowing worgen and draenie to be death knights imo.
If it were up to me, death knight races would be: orc, troll, forsaken, blood elf - human, dwarf, night elf and thats it.
Death knight should have been one of the more race restricted classes

I think Worgen can be demon hunters as well perhaps the original Night Elven Worgen that is.

[bloodmoth13]

I think Worgen can be demon hunters as well perhaps the original Night Elven Worgen that is.

what? there is no way that would happen, night elf worgen became savage and unintelligent. They suffered a druidic curse, illidan would have steered completely clear of them.

[Cynical Person]

shut. the. fuck. up.

[Volitar]

Think of the LORE! The PRECIOUS LORE!

[Thimagryn]

In all honesty i feel like BfA was the PERFECT chance to redo leveling zones and class restrictions.

The legion JUST invaded it can show that anx us picking up after the wars(as well as reflect the war between alliance and horde picking up) they can redo start zones since teldrassil is gone(which i fricken hate) and redo the be and draenei areas FINALLY having them reflect modern lore.

I mean in all honesty so much has happemed i think it is really about time they did it..maybe pist BfA but world NEEDS an update

If it were up to me, I'd reboot the entire system with Allied Races in mind. There's a lot of race/class comboes that just don't make sense any more with the inclusion of Allied Races, and would be better fit given to certain subraces. Night Elves and Dwarves got hit the most with this perversion in Cata, having Night Elf Mages and Dwarven Mages, Warlocks and Shamans. In hindsight, keep the Night Elves pure as the nature-friendly race, and the Bronzebeards are the lawful good city-dwellers that forgo the use of natural spirit or arcane magic.

I'd even go as far as getting rid of Draenei Shamans and bringing in the Broken with Shamanism, removing Tauren Paladins in favour of Zandalari Paladins, and getting rid of Goblin Shaman and Gnome Priests while allowing Worgen and Goblin Monks to be playable (because... why not). I don't see Goblins doing priestly things, while I can see them being drunken brawlers. The whole stretch of being a 'medic' should be left for another class concept, not shoved into the Priests whose themes are tied into faith-based healing.

But we get what we get because all race/class iterations are built on top of old history that is no longer relevant to current WoW. Honestly, I don't even see the point of Allied Races since I think there's too many race options already and this is far worse of an idea than actual subraces or a new race. We're spreading populations thin and this further insults the few races that already aren't getting much attention in the game.

All this time and the Gnomes still haven't taken back Gnomeregan. IMO If they revamp the world, the first thing that needs updates are the original races, not attention split onto splinter factions that happen to be easy reskins.

[LCDArcade]

Think of the LORE! The PRECIOUS LORE!

I'm falling asleep

[Fyersing]

That it hasn't happened is all the difference considering there is a pandaren death knight and we don't have that option. Don't care what people think is narratively plausible because it doesn't change what Blizzard chooses to do. We have shit that don't make sense like NE mages and they made it happen. Same with holy cows. There is no reason to us why any race can't be any class. The only limitation is the one set by Blizzard. 'The rsst of us' can't change their intended direction. Its not a matter of being unable to change or explain allied race death knights, rather it is one of them not wanting to.

I very specifically stated that the only contentious issue was how you came to your conclusion; the fact that something hasn't been implemented isn't, in any way, illustrative of an explicit exclusion on Blizzard's part. There aren't any elements, or at least very few, in GRRM's Game of Thrones which are seemingly inspired by the Enlightenment and yet it would be patently absurd to described the author as being ideologically aligned with what was later known as the Counter-Enlightenment.

The more likely explanation is a combination of a) lack of resources to dedicate towards issues which aren't a part of the currently prevailing narrative and b) really, whoever maintains their continuity form expansion-to-expansion being perhaps one of the worst at the job throughout the entirety of the gaming industry.

The only allied races they allow are ones that they choose to fit in the wrath timeline, unless you can show me that allied race dks have new lore under Bolvar. Like I said, we have no indication they want DK lore to move forward even if we can all accept that the lore can move forward and have Bolvar DKs like the new Four Horsemen. That is just unnecessary work and we can observe that the Allied Races are born out of their need to create substantial content out of minimal effort

We don't disagree on how things are, only on why they are.

You're of the opinion that by reading through the lines, you can discern Blizzard's every motive. I would posit that we cannot.

Lorewise, every race that has warriors and priests shouldbbe able to have Paladins. The fact that we don't isn't due to a lack of creativity or effort. It's intentional for whatever reasons they choose it to be. Cows don't fight for justice any more than a gnome, night elf or worgen would. They just added them for game balance reasons during cata, then lored their way out of implausibility.

All of this is agreeable, save for the statement about Paladin being a crude mashup of Warrior and Priest.

The understanding for Paladins isn't that they're simply "warriors who utilize the Light"; rather, they've become an embodiment of their chosen element (Light) rather than simply acting as a conduit for it. They are to Priests what DH's are to Warlocks, what DK's are to Necromancers.

If it were up to me, I'd reboot the entire system with Allied Races in mind. There's a lot of race/class comboes that just don't make sense any more with the inclusion of Allied Races, and would be better fit given to certain subraces. Night Elves and Dwarves got hit the most with this perversion in Cata, having Night Elf Mages and Dwarven Mages, Warlocks and Shamans. In hindsight, keep the Night Elves pure as the nature-friendly race, and the Bronzebeards are the lawful good city-dwellers that forgo the use of natural spirit or arcane magic.

A great deal of the narrative flaws for Night Elves would've been solved by their being two groups even as far back as Cataclysm -- perhaps with "naturalist NE's" electing to cozy up with the Horde and "un-naturalist NE's" maintaining contact with the Alliance and admitting the Shen'drelar into their ranks.

An enormous problem with Blizzard is that instead of fully implementing something, they dabble in half-measures which ultimately always bite them in the ass at a later date -- Dwarven Mages and Warlocks being their half-asses attempt at appeasing the portion of the playerbase which yearned to play as a Dark Iron (if I'm not mistaken, they even added a "Dark Iron-esque" skin color in WoD) and Dwarven Shaman functionally doing the same for those in favor of playable Wildhammer Dwarves. Now, as at least one of these becomes available as a standalone group, it's much less exciting for everyone other than those who've maintained a die-hard loyalty to "the cause" of playing these sub-groups.

I'd even go as far as getting rid of Draenei Shamans and bringing in the Broken with Shamanism, removing Tauren Paladins in favour of Zandalari Paladins, and getting rid of Goblin Shaman and Gnome Priests while allowing Worgen and Goblin Monks to be playable (because... why not). I don't see Goblins doing priestly things, while I can see them being drunken brawlers. The whole stretch of being a 'medic' should be left for another class concept, not shoved into the Priests whose themes are tied into faith-based healing.

I'd be behind this.

But we get what we get because all race/class iterations are built on top of old history that is no longer relevant to current WoW. Honestly, I don't even see the point of Allied Races since I think there's too many race options already and this is far worse of an idea than actual subraces or a new race. We're spreading populations thin and this further insults the few races that already aren't getting much attention in the game.

All this time and the Gnomes still haven't taken back Gnomeregan. IMO If they revamp the world, the first thing that needs updates are the original races, not attention split onto splinter factions that happen to be easy reskins.

It seems to me that these Allied Races will be somewhat attached to existing races, which will allow for their interplay to function as standalone narratives. This works well for every Allied Race, thus far, excepting both the Void Elves and the Nightborne -- who joined factions where their "parent races" aren't present, though this is much less of an issue for Void Elves considering the Alliance retains (at least, as of Legion) a large contingent of High Elves for the VE's to fraternize with.

At first I thought it'd be better for VE's to go Horde, Nightborne to go Alliance; as time passed, though, I think the more long-term solution would be for Blizzard to bite-the-bullet and shift the Blood Elves over to the Alliance and the Night Elves over to the Horde -- by any means necessary.

[Trassk]

highmountain, nightborne and lightforged were no where near involved with the scourge campaign, one group was bubbled for 10'000 years, another wasn't even near azeroth, and the other was just hanging on their mountain separate from it all. Void elves would be the only possible choice, since you could argue they were blood elves who were involved with the wrath campaign, but then having a blood elf who got raised by the scourge, and then later desides to piss around with the void, it sounds like your just heaping on crap on.

And don't complain, all allied races are limited on classes, hell void elves have way more then light forged draenei and highmountain tauren, so suck it up.

[FelPlague]

Blizzard could easily just add a questline for Deathknights. You go capture each of the new allied races. Kill them. Then reanimate them yourself as the Deathlord letting you unlock the races. They would start at level 20 just like everyone else.

level 20 deathknights wouldent work.

[Thimagryn]

We don't disagree on how things are, only on why they are.

You're of the opinion that by reading through the lines, you can discern Blizzard's every motive. I would posit that we cannot.

We can posit certain motives based on their direction and intentions, which they communicate to us directly and indirectly. I can predict that expansions moving forward will not have flight at launch. I could not predict that they came about the decision to remove flight permanently back in WoD, since that was an internal decision that they brewed on and tried to implement that did not follow any pattern.

Since Legion, their class and race design seems to be in the direction of maintaining certain fantasies and sticking to very specific identities. Our DK's are the Ebon Blade champions raised before Wrath. We simply don't have any indication that this will ever change in the near future. We can headcanon anything into possibility but it doesn't mean Blizzard is following that same mindset, and they haven't indicated this at all. Sure, it could happen if we have a Lich King related expansion in the near future, but why would this happen in BFA for Allied Races when their entire design is driven as providing the least-effort route of new content?

Where is the precedent for this happening? I can make the same argument for Worgen and Goblin Monks, where we have absolute precedent for having them playable and their lore reasons for exclusion are absolutely outdated. What reason would I have to show us Blizzard feels the same way?

All of this is agreeable, save for the statement about Paladin being a crude mashup of Warrior and Priest.

The understanding for Paladins isn't that they're simply "warriors who utilize the Light"; rather, they've become an embodiment of their chosen element (Light) rather than simply acting as a conduit for it. They are to Priests what DH's are to Warlocks, what DK's are to Necromancers.

Partially true, but the Paladin is intrinsically tied to Priest lore. In the lore, they ARE Priests who take up arms and Warriors who took up their preferred faiths. Lorewise, there is no reason why any Troll, Night Elf, Worgen etc Priest wouldn't be able to take up arms and embody their forms of light. Why couldn't there be a Gilnean Paladin that got afflicted by the curse?

At first I thought it'd be better for VE's to go Horde, Nightborne to go Alliance; as time passed, though, I think the more long-term solution would be for Blizzard to bite-the-bullet and shift the Blood Elves over to the Alliance and the Night Elves over to the Horde -- by any means necessary.

TBH the game is absolutely cyclical. One expansion where factions are divided, one expansion where they unite to fight a big-bad. Factions are an illusion at this point, and they're just bouncing between themes to keep things 'interesting'.

[Felrane]

level 20 deathknights wouldent work.

Would work just fine. They would just learn abilitys at lower levels like every other class does rather then all in 15 levels

Death Grip/Deathstrike/antimagic shell/dark command all at 20 rest you gain by leveling. Seems easy enough its not like Deathknights are special.

[Felixon]

Why is it that whenever Blizzard decides to add new races to the game Death Knights are never considered?

Believe me, I understand the whole "It's about the Lore" arguments but look at it from our point of view. These races are being marketed and promoted as "new content" as part of the new expansion, so what we're essentially being told is go ahead and enjoy them...that is unless of course you play Death knights or Demon Hunters then screw you. What about Pandaren, this race has been exposed to the other continents and death knights for years now and we still can't roll Pandaraen Death Knights?

Come on Blizzard work with us here, can we just let players enjoy all the new content and not be restricted because of the class I play? Just let me roll a Void Elf Death Knight for goodness sake!

I'm not saying every class should be able to be every race in the game, but there are certainly clear and valid arguments to be made for allowing Death Knights to be Void Elves, Highmountain Tauren and Pandaren; you can even find these NPCS in the game. We've been raising new Death knights the entire time in Legion and Bolvar could very well make new ones as well if he wanted.

Alright,once again - the events of the DK starting zone happen between the end of the TBC and start of WOTLK.At that time,there were no void elves;no HM tauren;no nightborne and no LF draenei,because at that point of time we simply haven't met them.It's already unbearably stupid,that there're worgen DK's;heck even pandaren dk's would make more sense.The only allied race,that would make sense of being dk would be the dark iron dwarves,cause could have been there at that time. For those who are saying "but you can raise new DK's anytime you like" - yea,theoretically you can,but Blizzard will not change the DK starting zone and the quests in it,and allowing the above mentioned races to be in the current starting zone would make zero sense.