Iceland proposes ban on male circumcision

[Strawberry]

It's pretty common in south korea too iirc, due to american influence lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preval...f_circumcision

Circumcision is largely a modern-day phenomenon in South Korea. While the rate in the twentieth century has been nearing 80%, virtually no circumcision was performed just a century ago, as it was against Korea's long and strong tradition of preserving the body as a gift from parents.[31] A 2001 study of 20-year-old South Korean men found that 78% were circumcised.[32] At the time, the authors commented that "South Korea has possibly the largest absolute number of teenage or adult circumcisions anywhere in the world. Because circumcision started through contact with the American military during the Korean War, South Korea has an unusual history of circumcision." According to a 2002 study, 86.3% of South Korean males aged 14–29 were circumcised.[33] In 2012, it's the case of 75.8% of the same age group. Only after 1999 has some information against circumcision become available (at the time of the 2012 study, only 3% of Korean internet sites, using the most popular Korean search engine Naver, are against indiscriminate circumcision and 97% are for).[31] The authors of the study speculate "that the very existence of information about the history of Korean circumcision, its contrary nature relative to a longstanding tradition, its introduction by the US military, etc., has been extremely influential on the decision-making process regarding circumcision."[31]

Ahahahahahaha XD XD XD XD XD

[Mistame]

As a circumcised, American man, it should be illegal to perform on those unable to consent. This is one of those cases where the "rights" of the parents trumping those of the child's bodily autonomy goes too far.

[Player Twelve]

Ahahahahahaha XD XD XD XD XD

Is that false?

[Strawberry]

Is that false?

I wasn't laughing at you. I was laughing at the irony.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2.../23/about-face

[Darkeon]

The obsession to chop bits of newborns\children was always completely appalling to me.

Good on Iceland. Hope more follow.

- - - Updated - - -

The obsession to chop bits of newborns\children off was always completely appalling to me.

Good on Iceland. Hope more follow.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Should definitely be illegal.

[Player Twelve]

I wasn't laughing at you. I was laughing at the irony.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2.../23/about-face

Oh, fuck that. Don't understand why they would take the risk to die just to look better.

[Strawberry]

Oh, fuck that. Don't understand why they would take the risk to die just to look better.

It's kinda funny how quickly things turn around. First, they have a strong tradition to keep the body as it was given to them by their parents. Suddenly everyone and their mother is doing plastic surgeries.

[luc54]

Oh right, that Kellog's cereal dude, right?

Yea pretty much the same guy. People believed masturbation caused medical problems or maybe because it was "sinful" meant that he wanted to try to prevent it by doing circumcisions. He even advocated doing it without any anesthesia to cause children trauma. What a fucking asshole.

[Krigaren]

The way circumcision really started to spread out in the US unlike rest of Europe seems thanks to Dr. Kellog who prescribed it to "cure" boys masturbation. Masturbation was thought to cause health related issues. That's pretty much same shit as FGM. Some puritan assholes attribute masturbation as a harmful habit and try to prevent it.

That's a rather interesting tidbit. I'll have to look into that a bit more, cause it's something I hadn't heard as a reason for circumcision's popularity in the US. I had always thought it was simply due to American zealotry with christian and catholic dogmatic practices, which were established during the days when - like with the Jewish - circumcision was performed for reasons related to cleanliness and to reduce the incidences of complications arising from living in dry, sandy regions.

[Zuben]

Hopefully it passes.

[Enfilade]

It's not like I had a say in the matter, but I'm glad my parents opted for circumcision. Penises look ugly without it and I hear they're harder to keep clean.

[Levelfive]

Yeah, I found a contradictory article. Your point? Would you rather I pull numbers out of my ass?

I also never said that it "doesn't happen". I said that the statement is ridiculous hyperbole, which it is. The statement was framed purposefully to exaggerate the risks, which is extremely low, and lower than many other procedures performed on kids (including umbilical cutting, which I cited).

hy·per·bo·le
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric

Is it an exaggeration, overstatement, embellishment, overkill and rhetoric to suggest that circumcision could lead to the death or disfigurement of your child? Yes, it is, because it's statistically so unlikely that it's not even worth an in-depth study by the CDC.

Does that mean that it never happens? No. Because even the most benign, safest procedures carry the risk of permanent damage or even death due to complications, no matter what it is.

If your stance that children shouldn't be exposed to even this tiny risk due to a procedure that isn't provably medically beneficial, then sure, that's reasonable personal stance to have. However, my stance is an argument for a legislative ban, and established religious/cultural practices, should be couched on factual contexts that apply to the vast majority of boys rather than a fear-mongering tactic that is so statistically improbable that it's laughable. That's how legal procedure works. You have to show undue harm or risk, and a 0.003% chance of death due to a secondary infection (and not due to the actual procedure itself) - if the Bollinger study is accurate - doesn't do that.

Because if that's the road we want to go down as a society, there's going to be quite a lot of things that will need to be banned due to their potential to harm or kill children, including owning dogs, letting kids sleep on beds of any elevation, allowing kids to ride in cars at all, allowing kids to live in the same house as a stove, oven or electric range, allowing kids to take baths in hot water, etc.

Saying that circumcision can lead to complications and even death is a perfectly true and reasonable statement, and since we're talking about cases where it's elective on the parent's part, it's incredibly stupid and irresponsible to take that risk. I imagine if someone wanted to perform plastic surgery on an infant, people would object on the basis of the risk to needlessness ratio, even if the risks are tiny. Secondary infection, yes, and also things like strokes and blood loss, for a thing that we do because we've done it for a long time--to try to dismiss deaths by saying they're not caused by the actual procedure is like saying bullets don't kill you, it's the secondary blood loss. Unless it's medically indicated, cutting things off babies is dumb and barbaric--AAP doesn't even recommend it as a routine procedure. But sure, by all means, complain about hyperbole about actual facts in evidence on one hand, and then fret we'll have to ban cars and beds and baths on the other. Really demonstrates your concern for "factual contexts."

[Heladys]

Cold country. They need every extra bit of warmth they can get.

[Player Twelve]

It's not like I had a say in the matter, but I'm glad my parents opted for circumcision. Penises look ugly without it and I hear they're harder to keep clean.

They look uglier. Harder to keep clean? I've never heard any guy complain that it's hard to keep their dick clean because they're not circumcised lol.

[schwank05]

Your point is to leave it to an adult, but no adult is gonna do it. It's better to do stuff like this when they're young.

Exactly it's like piercing ears. We did our daughters at 1month old, she is 5 now and does not ever screw with her earrings.

[Shadowferal]

It was tried in the US, in San Francisco I believe. It was struck down so fast it made every atheists head spin harder than the little girl in the Exorcist.

[Video Games]

Why do you care what your son's penis looks like? It's not like you're going to be having sex with him.. I hope.

Uh, i care how any of my boyfriends dick looks like

[Hugnomo]

To unnecessarily mutilate a child is barbaric. Whether it's done in african countries, or western countries, regardless of religion or superstition, to unnecessarily mutilate a child is wrong and has no place in a civilized society.

[Mihalik]

It was tried in the US, in San Francisco I believe. It was struck down so fast it made every atheists head spin harder than the little girl in the Exorcist.

Not sure how is this an atheist issue. You really think your God requires the foreskins of baby boys? Like what sort of fucking whackado shit is that?