Why arming teachers is not the answer.

[Ghostpanther]

I've always been interested in that bit. Wouldn't a militia be declared an enemy of the United States if they were attempting to go after our leaders? Or am I missing something about that?

You are correct. They would be enemies if they are violating the law, which of itself did not violate the Constitution. There are militias which are organized with such goal if they felt it was needed. But they would be rebels, outlaws and enemies of the Constitution if they took any action.

[Deleted]

God bless America

Seriously though I can't facepalm hard enough

[Azelas]

I find it pretty surreal that "why arming the teachers is not the answer" even need an explanation.

/10characters

[tikcol]

What if the the teachers don't want to carry arms which I think is very likely?

Perhaps they aren't teachers you should employ as a nation, especially on public schools.

[Elegiac]

Perhaps they aren't teachers you should employ as a nation, especially on public schools.

Because it's totally unreasonable for a teacher not to want to be put in the position of a law enforcement official, apparently.

Also, I like how you lot expect teachers to lay their lives down and/or kill to protect kids and then insist they don't deserve more than 40,000 a year.

[Swalload]

So I have seen this before as an "answer" to US school shootings but to hear it from the President himself is just moronic (though I don't know why it surprises me). I just don't understand how arming teachers is supposed to make anyone safer, if anything it just makes things worse for several reasons.

1. It makes teachers target. If someone wants to go on a rampage in a school it just means that teachers become primary targets, strike first and the fact that the teacher has a gun does not remove the bullets from his/her chest.

2. What about what the teachers want? People get into teaching for many reasons and none of them are to carry a gun and stop school shootings. You might argue that it's not about what the teacher wants, its about keeping the kids safe, but is it safe or practical to give a hesitant person a gun?

3. Teachers shouldn't have to carry guns. Guns are the cause of the trouble in the first place, adding more to the situation is just asking for trouble.

The obvious answer is to protect your children, not your antiquated rights. People say it's part of the constitution so can't be changed, you mean like the 18th amendment? The fact is just because some long dead guy thought something was a good idea, does not make it a good idea. 7 school shootings in the first 7 weeks of 2018 is a huge problem and if you want to solve it by throwing more guns at it just to protect your right you are nothing but a paranoid zealot.

In the 200 odd years since the 2nd amendment was created, there has never been a need for a militia to destroy an insurrection/slave rebellion or to fight a military coup, which was it's intended use. The 2nd amendment has only ever been used to murder and maim other citizens for various reasons and justify the action.

No other civilised country in the world needs a law/right like this, so why does the US? The so called "greatest" country in the world, and lots of it's own citizens are so afraid of each other that they can't feel safe without a deadly weapon to protect themselves. That's just sad.

1. True
2. Also true.
3. Not true. An inanimate object cannot be the cause of any trouble. It is physically impossible. The cause of the problem is much deeper, it's a rampant mental problem that is affecting a lot of Americans who expect more out of life and the people around them, they feel like they are against their own country because things don't go the way they want, and so they start hating. Hating so much that they want to kill. The amount of guns available most likely facilitate this, but guns themselves are not the cause.

No other civilised country in the world needs a law/right like this, so why does the US? The so called "greatest" country in the world, and lots of it's own citizens are so afraid of each other that they can't feel safe without a deadly weapon to protect themselves. That's just sad.

Self proclaimed. The rest of the world knows that the USA is not the greatest country in the world, they are lacking in several aspects of what makes a country great, IMO this is what is triggering some of these shooters. With more available information they realize that the American dream is a lie for most people and that they really don't live in the best country, it hurts their ego and pushes them into bad decisions. This all goes back to my previous statement about mental stability.

I'm really not saying we need more guns, specially not in schools, but there is literally nothing that proves that more gun control will solve this issue. With how much more mentally unstable many Americans are, it wouldn't be surprising if they just start making bombs instead of using guns. Or just set school on fire, resulting in more death (and more violent suffering and damages in the process). It could very well be just a bandaid on a gushing open wound.

Remember that the shooter didn't decide to do a school shooting because of the amount of guns in America, that was not his reason. The reason about why people are doing this needs to be found, studied and fixed. This kind of mental issue is not present in other countries (or at least not by the same proportions) so it's absolutely pointless to compare the amount of shootings with the amount of guns or the kind of gun controls other countries have because these subjects ar not the reasons why people think about killing, it's way deeper and it needs to be understood no matter what kind of gun control is put in place.

[Kathandira]

You are correct. They would be enemies if they are violating the law, which of itself did not violate the Constitution. There are militias which are organized with such goal if they felt it was needed. But they would be rebels, outlaws and enemies of the Constitution if they took any action.

So with that, the military would be required to take them down?

[Ghostpanther]

Which ones arn't? other than Colorado started in Columbine kids get bullied or are spurned for being a little off or feel like they got unfairly treated by the faculty, then shoot up the school they feel treated them unfairly.

Yeah, it is personal and the school it has happened in, is where the personal vendetta becomes the target. I am sure not all 17 of those he killed were guilty of bullying him. Sometimes the shooter will carry a handgun concealed and then try to target specific targets only. In this case, he was too young to legally possess a handgun. Which personally, they need to raise the age min to 21 for all firearms imo.

[Stormspellz]

Clearly the freedom solution is to equip all teachers with military grade body armor, helmets and all that.

obviously all teachers should have a personal mecha suit, gotta keep a head of the arms race curve after all.

[McFuu]

I honestly find it more ironic that despite a long track record of bitching about 'big government overreach', conservatives are willing to turn society into a panopticon just to preserve their ability to own guns.

I agree, even though I can be conservative. I believe the second amendment shouldn't be removed, but I think we need a licencing, registration system for firearms, that would leave the owners open to agreeing to inspections, yearly licencing and registration fees, etc...

While I don't find that these shootings are weapon related, let's be real guns don't whisper shoot up this place. They just make it easier. There is a real social issue and mental health issue here. But unfortunately the only way to address this situation is to limit access to weapons.

I think a properly functioning gun control system would make it easier for people working within the law to buy and own.

[Elegiac]

obviously all teachers should have a personal mecha suit, gotta keep a head of the arms race curve after all.

Now here's a solution I can get behind.

[Deleted]

Why not just replace all teachers with hardcore military trained soldiers and mercenaries

[tikcol]

then insist they don't deserve more than 40,000 a year.

Who insisted on such a thing?

[Ghostpanther]

So with that, the military would be required to take them down?

Yes. They would be enemies of the Constitution. Stop them would be in order and a legal action.

[Elegiac]

I agree, even though I can be conservative. I believe the second amendment shouldn't be removed, but I think we need a licencing, registration system for firearms, that would leave the owners open to agreeing to inspections, yearly licencing and registration fees, etc...

While I don't find that these shootings are weapon related, let's be real guns don't whisper shoot up this place. They just make it easier. There is a real social issue and mental health issue here. But unfortunately the only way to address this situation is to limit access to weapons.

I think a properly functioning gun control system would make it easier for people working within the law to buy and own.

I don't particularly see the point in the Second Amendment, and I say this as a gun owner.

[Fluffernut]

It's a pretty stupid idea. There's so much that could go wrong with it and potentially make the problem worse.

-Kid steals gun, shoots teacher
-Gun accidentally goes off, kills teacher/kids
-Teacher overreacts and kills someone reaching in their pocket
-Teacher underreacts and it's pointless

That's not even mentioning the fact that these are TEACHERS. They're not cops, they're not Marines, they're fucking teachers. You expect them to deal with that kind of stress in a rational way? You're probably gonna have a bad time.

Plus, who's paying for this? You'd need to arm multiple teachers in every school, so paying for guns, ammo, training, etc. when most schools can't even afford basic supplies.

It's basically the worst idea ever for a problem that the right has exacerbated over the years by refusing to do anything at all about this problem. So instead of actually dealing with the underlying causes, they want to band-aid the wound with more guns. What a bunch of morons.

This. I am a teacher. We have had multiple threats over this past week. I love my students and I will do everything in my power to protect them. I. Am. Not. A. Cop. I am not a member of the military. I teach complete sentences. I teach "your and you're". I teach them to open their minds. I teach them to trust their ideas and to back those ideas up with facts. I teach them to be completionists. I teach.

I do own a gun - in my home. I think I would be able to defend my home and family, I have never been in a situation where defense would be warranted so I can not unequivocally say how I would react. I do know that if I were armed in school and if I were to be in a situation where one of my students, my babies, was also armed and I had the opportunity to shoot that child. I would hesitate.

I am trained to teach. I love to teach, this is why I am a teacher. I respect law enforcement and I respect the military. I am neither.

We don't want to be armed. We also don't want our students to be able to get guns more easily than a driver's license.

[Hilhen7]

You don't arm teachers for the same reason you don't require police officers to teach classes, it's not part of their job and not what they are trained for. If you want a police officer at the school, hire police officers to patrol the school. Increase taxes on firearms to pay for more security, lets see what the NRA says about that.

What will gun nuts think of next.

[McFuu]

I don't particularly see the point in the Second Amendment, and I say this as a gun owner.

It has it's point, but it's more about national identity. Doesn't mean that guns can't be properly regulated without stepping on people that want their guns.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Alternatively, (Since America will never get rid of their guns laws) maybe having a dedicated security officer armed on establishments is the way to go? It's all grim and depressing but like the guy said, 7 schools shootings for the first 7 weeks of the year is fucking insane.

... Wait what?? I thought the Florida shooting with 17 deaths was the first of the year... Must be because that's the one that media all over the world covered?

Either way, I'd say that having armed guards in the schools is the way to go. Not sure how less well-off schools will handle that though.

[Beazy]

If its such a bad idea and so deadly, why haven't any children in TX schools, where some teachers have legally concealed carry for 10+ years, been gunned down? Shouldn't there be a pile of bodies and blood in the street by now?

Its almost as if this argument is so hyperbolic that if you train with it for 5 minutes, it will make you a Super Sayan without a tail.