Why arming teachers is not the answer.

[Hilhen7]

Ok, let me address this point by point if I can...

Yes. It would be vital to have the proper training from a licensed firearm instructor like we do here in Ohio to get a conceal carry license.

1 ) People now who carry/concealed here, hundreds of thousands of them, have stress too in some cases, yet they are not going around shooting people.

2 ) One requirement ( with failure to do so which could result in dismissal,) would be to keep the firearm on you well concealed.

3) If the firearm is concealed, they have to know where the teacher is carrying it and this also gives the teacher time to react.

4 ) One again, proper training would help with that.

False, 29 mass shootings by people with conceal and carry permits since 2007. Doesn't include non mass shootings, so yeah.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...gs-since-2007/

[Torgent]

it's better if the teachers are targets than the children, imo.

i think some teachers should be armed, and i think that there should be two or three armed officers and metal detectors at the entrance of the school. side entrances should only open from the inside of the building.

Them being a target means that they get shot first. It doesn't mean that students don't get shot. This isn't WoW where tanks take the damage to protect everyone else, shooters would just shoot the teacher first, then the students. Nothing changes except the possibility for a teacher to accidentally shoot the wrong person.

[Draco-Onis]

Ok, let me address this point by point if I can...

Yes. It would be vital to have the proper training from a licensed firearm instructor like we do here in Ohio to get a conceal carry license.

1 ) People now who carry/concealed here, hundreds of thousands of them, have stress too in some cases, yet they are not going around shooting people.

2 ) One requirement ( with failure to do so which could result in dismissal,) would be to keep the firearm on you well concealed.

3) If the firearm is concealed, they have to know where the teacher is carrying it and this also gives the teacher time to react.

4 ) One again, proper training would help with that.

1) Stress like dealing with countless kids, long hours , being underpaid and working a second job to make a living? I don't think you get what teachers go through especially high school.

2) But you are dealing with humans they will get lazy and do things like put it in their desks.

3) So you are saying that police officers lose their guns to suspects but teachers nope that would not happen?

4) Yes training that would take years and that no one is proposing funding for hate to be repeat but you are asking teachers to be full time security guards for no additional pay.

[Antiganon]

They can be there. That is how laws work. Even if you think they unreasonable ones.

I understand perfectly well how laws work.

I am wondering what makes you think students arming themselves to go to class is reasonable, even 21+ college students.

[Vanyali]

I understand perfectly well how laws work.

I am wondering what makes you think students arming themselves to go to class is reasonable, even 21+ college students.

It also really makes you wonder if they think teachers are going to give any grade lower than a B, maaaybe a C, when they know all their students are armed. Kinda defeats the purpose of grading if the response is potentially fatal.

[Ghostpanther]

Who pays for the guns? The ammo?

Who pays for the teachers that do this 8 hour course to continue practicing so they maintain some competency?

Who pays for the vastly increased liability insurance that schools (and probably individual armed teachers) must now carry?

The license to carry concealed a firearm would be good outside of schools.

Same as I pay for my own ammo now and for the 8 hour course I had to take to get my license and when I go to a range.

The schools would which are funded by the tax payers, so ultimately the tax payers would for insurance for them. I seriously do not think their insurance would go up that much higher anyway.

[McFuu]

Meanwhile I can exercise the right under the Second Amendment for my personal defense using a firearm and not belong to any militia, which I am not. .

You don't have the right to defend yourself from someone with a gun. Not specifically that right. You have a right to defend your self and a right to own firearms, but not specifically to shoot people to defend yourself.
The law protects you if you are actually defending yourself with a firearm you are allowed to own. But they are separate.
If you shoot someone who is trying to harm you, your self defense defense isn't there 2nd amendment.

[Ghostpanther]

I understand perfectly well how laws work.

I am wondering what makes you think students arming themselves to go to class is reasonable, even 21+ college students.

The same reasons millions are going around now in the public armed with conceal carry licenses.

[Elegiac]

The same reasons millions are going around now in the public armed with conceal carry licenses.

Personal insecurity?

[Hilhen7]

The same reasons millions are going around now in the public armed with conceal carry licenses.

Sure, and some of those millions do end up killing / murdering people with those guns. Some people use a gun for defense, some for offense.

[McFuu]

A militia which was intended to give certain states the ability to put down slave revolts if the Federal government had a surfeit of abolitionists, sure.

That may have been a duty at one point in time, but not the main point of the militia, and after the 13th, really moot.

[Elegiac]

That may have been a duty at one point in time, but not the main point of the militia, and after the 13th, really moot.

Which just demonstrates that original intent isn't necessarily the best litmus test and that the interpretation should change based on current circumstances.

That being that the American public cannot be trusted with generalised firearm ownership.

[Ghostpanther]

You don't have the right to defend yourself from someone with a gun. Not specifically that right. You have a right to defend your self and a right to own firearms, but not specifically to shoot people to defend yourself.
The law protects you if you are actually defending yourself with a firearm you are allowed to own. But they are separate.
If you shoot someone who is trying to harm you, your self defense defense isn't there 2nd amendment.

Yes I do. According to the Supreme Court and also the law on my state. And yes, I have the right to use my firearm to protect myself from a attacker in or out of my home if I feel my life or seriously body harm is in danger. Ohio is a Constitutional carry state and the laws it has on using firearms for self defense are based on the right for such in the Constitution.

[Antiganon]

The license to carry concealed a firearm would be good outside of schools.

Same as I pay for my own ammo now and for the 8 hour course I had to take to get my license and when I go to a range.

The schools would which are funded by the tax payers, so ultimately the tax payers would for insurance for them. I seriously do not think their insurance would go up that much higher anyway.

The license being good outside of schools does not magically mean that the teacher has disposable income to buy a gun, or ammunition.

Nor does the teacher necessarily have funds or spare time to properly train and maintain their skills.

Liability will absolutely go through the roof if you have armed faculty with no formal training all over the school. Ask anyone with any dealings with the insurance industry. The presence of firearms is a known risk factor, and known risk factors are the ENTIRE basis on how liability insurance is calculated.

Let me be abundantly clear:

A TEACHER WHO HAD A SINGLE 8 HOUR CCW CLASS, AND IS NOW ARMED IN THE CLASSROOM DESPITE HAVING NO OTHER TRAINING, NO KNOWLEDGE OF PROPER GUN CARE/CLEANING/MAINTENANCE, AND WHO DOES NOT REGULARLY SHOOT AT A RANGE, WILL BE MORE DANGEROUS TO THEIR STUDENTS IN AN ACTIVE SHOOTER SITUATION THAN THE SITUATION WOULD BE WERE THE TEACHER NOT ARMED.

[Ghostpanther]

Personal security?

Fixed that for you. Your welcome.

[Jastall]

I wouldn't be surprised if the true motivation behind arming the teachers was that, in the event of something going wrong at a school, the NRA and its ilk can turn around and say it's the teacher's fault now, because obviously anyone with a gun turns into Rambo. Everything to blame anything but the actual guns.

[Vanyali]

Yes I do. According to the Supreme Court and also the law on my state. And yes, I have the right to use my firearm to protect myself from a attacker in or out of my home if I feel my life or seriously body harm is in danger. Ohio is a Constitutional carry state and the laws it has on using firearms for self defense are based on the right for such in the Constitution.

The point he's making is that you can do that because of the laws in your state, not an explicit right to defend yourself. Your right is to carry a gun, your laws allow you to shoot it.

[igualitarist]

This arming teachers suggestion is so ridiculous we shouldn't even waste time talking about it.

[ovm33]

Who pays for the guns? The ammo?

Who pays for the teachers that do this 8 hour course to continue practicing so they maintain some competency?

Who pays for the vastly increased liability insurance that schools (and probably individual armed teachers) must now carry?

The teachers pay for the guns and ammo. In a country of over 100 million gun owners it's pretty reasonable to expect about 1/3 - 1/2 of all teachers already own their own gun / ammo.

The training is provided by the county SWAT trainers in their own free time and completed by the teachers on their own time. It's voluntary on all parts.

There will be no increase in insurance costs. You're obviously not familiar with CCW laws.

It is cute that we now require teachers to not only pay for the vast majority of their teaching supplies but then to also work two jobs - one as a teacher, one as a security guard, while claiming they're overpaid leeches anytime they ask for money for schools.

I'm positive those teachers will be able to no problem shoot a kid they taught, maybe even liked, though. Real life is just like an action movie where shooting people is easy and the people you shoot die forgiving you within one minute.

It's voluntary. No one is requiring shit. Reading comprehension FTW. And the teachers here in my county are very well paid anyways.

And no one is saying it will be easy to shoot a kid, what the hell kind of strawman is that?

[Draco-Onis]

This arming teachers suggestion is so ridiculous we shouldn't even waste time talking about it.

Well people who are pro gun they think the only way to solve any gun issue is to add more guns just like if you want to solve the nuclear problem you get more nukes