No Flying in 8.0 Confirmed

[Vespene]

I'm in the no-flying crowd. The world feels a lot bigger, and the encounters are way more interesting when you have to traverse the terrain.

That said, min-maxers love the feeling that they're somehow exploiting the game, be it by flying on top of a quest objective and skipping all the goons and what not. Maybe flying and no-flying servers?

[Deleted]

I really don't understand this. The people that want to walk everywhere when questing will do so, let the others fly and enjoy the game their way. Sheesh.

[Dugna]

I'm in the no-flying crowd. The world feels a lot bigger, and the encounters are way more interesting when you have to traverse the terrain.

That said, min-maxers love the feeling that they're somehow exploiting the game, be it by flying on top of a quest objective and skipping all the goons and what not. Maybe flying and no-flying servers?

fighting boar version #245 and thinking its interesting is not a thing in this game anymore, unless that boar is a raid boss that summons meteors from the sky it will never be a interesting encounter, having to deal with said boring boar dismounting you while you go to do the important things that ready you for raids/dungeons etc is not interesting. If you want the world more interesting you make the quests and the story more interesting you don't gimp the player which can destroy a titan one of the most powerful things in the game to the ground so they can fight "interesting" boars. Thats the whole problem with this no flight crap, you know what would be interesting? something like FF14 where you explore the zones and complete the storyline in the zone to get flight for that zone, and wallah you got flight while "experienceing the zone"

TLDR; Getting stuck on a rock for the billionth time and fighting the boar #245 will never be interesting, and I don't understand why people seem to find it interesting.

[clevin]

I am not afraid to open up to new ideas. I want to turn it more into a moba, if possible yes, but why is this embarassing? It's an idea of a change for the game, just like many other changes has happened to the game.

Because you've decided to play an MMO but want it to be something else. It's as if you went to an Italian restaurant and told them they should really serve Chinese food. Want Chinese? Go to a Chinese restaurant. Same thing here.

Leveling has always been part of the game, but that doesn't mean that everyone who play the game like it. As a matter of fact, I hate leveling so much, that I consider quite often to quit, even though I like the good parts of the game a lot. That's why I am so passionately against no-fly, as flying would make the game bearable for me, and make the worst part, leveling, slightly better, since sadly, levels will never go away :/

Aside from the fact that leveling is part of the RPG genre it's silly to imagine that they'd drastically change this game 12+ years into its life.

If an MMO with leveling isn't for you and you like MOBAs, fine. Go play one.

[chiddie]

I'm in the no-flying crowd. The world feels a lot bigger, and the encounters are way more interesting when you have to traverse the terrain.

That said, min-maxers love the feeling that they're somehow exploiting the game, be it by flying on top of a quest objective and skipping all the goons and what not. Maybe flying and no-flying servers?

This reminds me about the 7.3.5 scaling disaster levelling.

Flying is not mandatory. My flying does not prevent you from walking from level 1 to max.

If I can’t fly, you can still walk your way 1 to max but I can’t fly.

In both cases you can do what you wish, in one case I’m gimped. Why you do support the “gimp others” path is beyond me, since it makes no difference to you.

[shammypie]

How about, per zone, we fight to gain resources (A vs. H) to unlock flight for the winning faction in the zone for a week. During the fight to gain resources, flight is not allowed.

I'm excited to hear what people think.

*brews popcorn*

first I'm going to help your idea by trimming the duration down to 2 hours at most.

Second it won't work. have a nice day

[Difuid]

This reminds me about the 7.3.5 scaling disaster levelling.

Flying is not mandatory. My flying does not prevent you from walking from level 1 to max.

If I can’t fly, you can still walk your way 1 to max but I can’t fly.

In both cases you can do what you wish, in one case I’m gimped. Why you do support the “gimp others” path is beyond me, since it makes no difference to you.

A: Because their willpower is weak, and if flying is allowed they would flap around just as happily as the pro-flying people, while feeling ashamed of themselves.
B: They play a rogue or druid who can traverse the map without having to face the mind numbing grind of inconsequential mobs with every step just to get from A to B.

[Dhrizzle]

Blizz has had to back pedal the last two expansions because the pro flying crowd hit them where it hurts the most ($$$).

No they didn't. In WoD they ended up doing what they intended in the first place, basically pleasing the people who were happy to wait for flying but wanted to take off at some point towards the end of the expansion. As far as I can tell those are usually branded anti-flyers, unless you think pro-flyers are the people happy with the Pathfinder achievement system. Sure they flip-flopped a few times as there were many more people unhappy about "no flying ever" than there were complaining about "flying delayed," but the rapid 180 due to the "happy-to-wait" crowd just put them back on their original course.

In Legion they did pretty much the exact same thing, delayed flying until they had added in the first major piece of world content to the existing continent. It just went a lot smoother because development of Legion was a lot smoother than WoD's.

What is also reveals is players desire to have WoW be complete again. Player that like no flying are also players that like pruning of classes and specs aka MOBA players.

That's just a lie, I prefer no flying and have barely picked up a MOBA I enjoy.

That is why the new islands in BFA are better designed terrain wise and much larger. All thanks to feedback provided by the pro flying crowd. The vertical scale isnt as out of control as it was in WoD for example for BFA.

So, make no mistake about it they are taking feedback from the pro flying crowd to heart in incremental pieces at the time.

What they're doing is making the game easier for people who struggle reading a map or observing their surroundings. It's part of the "dumbing down" of WoW that's been going on for ages, the sort of thing they might do for MOBA players who aren't used to having to navigate terrain. It's been happening for a longish time and whilst it can be disappointing when features I like get snipped, overall I accept it's better for the overall health of the game/majority of players. At least they're sticking with the no-flying design so the openworld gameplay isn't completely brain-dead.

Without flying WoW ceases to be a modern and fun MMORPG IMVHO.

Thank goodness for that, "modern and fun" MMOs like GW2 and ESO strip back the complexity so you only have 4 or 5 skills on your bars and stick teleporters absolutely everywhere so you might as well be playing in a bunch of instances rather than a seamless open area. I'm happy for WoW to stick to being a middle-school MMO.

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This was like reading a bloated propaganda poster. Holy shit.

Just wait until he really gets going, Mafic can be an absolute treat to read when things continue to not go their way.

[therealstegblob]

I'm okay with no flying at all ever, just as long as zones are designed without flying in mind. Navigating garbage like Highmountain and Broken Shore and even parts of Suramar are just garbage without flight.

[Dhrizzle]

1. Cutting costs

Bollocks, you have absolutely zero evidence that the map design of WoD and Legion was cheaper than MoP, and I expect all 3 of the latest expansions cost a lot more than Cata, WotLK and TBC simply because of the higher quality graphics used.

2. Lack of creativity

This section you've outdone yourself. So Blizz lack creativity because they keep trying new systems instead of recycling the old flying system that has barely changed since TBC? Genious!

3. Time gating for unknown reasons

It's not for unknown reasons, Blizz have 3 choices -

Make some content that people will blast through and complain they've nothing to do.
Make some content that is a massive grind so people will complain they'll never finish it.
Make some content and time-gate it so people will complain they can't blast/grind through it all at once.

Of those three choices Blizz decided that time-gating worked best for making sure everyone had time to complete the content without some people running out of things to do and feeling like they no longer had reasons to log in and play with friends.

You say that as an insult but that is what people liked for a lot of maps from vanilla and BC. Actually there was vanilla maps with vertical scale but it was done responsibly. Argus is simply a sloppy job given the location of many world quests.

It may appeal to MOBA players but players of MMORPGs look down upon maps that are claustrophobic and lack the ability for players to navigate beyond the predetermined cookie pattern paths. In other words freedom of player exploration within limits of game rules should be allowed and not hindered IMVHO.

I'm starting to think you don't know what MOBAs are. Surely your idea of better zones being ones with long "corridors" and "rooms" and open areas is more suited to MOBAs and players who just want to pew-pew for rewards rather than those of us who prefer exploration and adventure.

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I really don't understand this. The people that want to walk everywhere when questing will do so, let the others fly and enjoy the game their way. Sheesh.

It's pretty simple really, if Blizz give players a powerful tool (like flying) they then have to design content around the assumption people will use that tool. Taking the current world quest system into account, if players are assumed to be flying Blizz would compensate by decreasing the rewards and making you complete more quests for the emissary chests. Non-flying players would then struggle to manage the pace of progression that Blizz expect.

There's also the idea of opportunity cost, an activity can become less fun if you know that you're purposefully nerfing your capabilities and not being able to go after other rewarding activities.

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fighting boar version #245 and thinking its interesting is not a thing in this game anymore, unless that boar is a raid boss that summons meteors from the sky it will never be a interesting encounter, having to deal with said boring boar dismounting you while you go to do the important things that ready you for raids/dungeons etc is not interesting. If you want the world more interesting you make the quests and the story more interesting you don't gimp the player which can destroy a titan one of the most powerful things in the game to the ground so they can fight "interesting" boars. Thats the whole problem with this no flight crap, you know what would be interesting? something like FF14 where you explore the zones and complete the storyline in the zone to get flight for that zone, and wallah you got flight while "experienceing the zone"

TLDR; Getting stuck on a rock for the billionth time and fighting the boar #245 will never be interesting, and I don't understand why people seem to find it interesting.

Some of us have expanded out skill-sets so we can ride around rocks and avoid boars. Maybe one day with enough practice and experience you'll learn the techniques to do so as well.

[Jastall]

I really don't understand this. The people that want to walk everywhere when questing will do so, let the others fly and enjoy the game their way. Sheesh.

I'm in the same boat. If one thinks no flying so awesome, one is free to not use it. Personally, I'm OK with the Pathfinder model, but it shouldn't take so long to get flying. You should be able to get it on launch patch, or a X.1 patch close to release. Basically make flight available within 3, max 4 months of release when the world content is already getting old.

Also Pathfinder culminating into an actual questline where you take control of the skies would be neat, rather than just flicking a switch when you do X amount of Y content.

[RoKPaNda]

What is with the no flying people pretending they're some kind of majority?

Anyway it's pretty childish that Blizzard makes you go out of your way and do bullshit you wouldn't otherwise do in order to unlock flight. Should just be a timed unlock tbh. "Oh look, it's the X.2 patch, flying unlocked!" - The only reason I went through the garbage dumpster suramar questline was for flight when it unlocked. Only reason I did the rep grinds in WoD also.

The whistle was nice, but it pales in comparison to flight. I think I've only used it once since unlocking flight.

[Dembai]

I'm glad about the no flying. And anyone who claims that flying is the best way to get around Legion content, you're CLEARLY DRUNK. The only place Flying gives an advantage over taking a flight master is the city-parts of Suramar (which really isn't even THAT big of a deal with the teleports) and on the Broken Isles (which is where flying was introduced to Legion). In fact the whole design of the Broken Shore is to be PUNISHING to someone who doesn't grind out their ability to fly.

Everywhere else, you will get there sooner if you take a flight path. Always. Flight paths are extremely fast now, and know how to carve out the shortest distance between points. But flying OVER highmountain?! No thanks! Trying to get around Val'shara? You might as well take a flight path for all the PVP zones, no-fly zones, random bits of ceiling, invisible walls, and freaking TREES AND HILLS everywhere...I still take FPs out there. Flying is a waste in that area.

Between instant FP because of your whistle, teleports in Suramar, and roads being actually the most safe way to get through an area, flying is almost a bonus, not a requirement to enjoy the content.

If BFA does the same deal, that will be awesome.

[Spiffums]

What is with the no flying people pretending they're some kind of majority?

Anyway it's pretty childish that Blizzard makes you go out of your way and do bullshit you wouldn't otherwise do in order to unlock flight. Should just be a timed unlock tbh. "Oh look, it's the X.2 patch, flying unlocked!" - The only reason I went through the garbage dumpster suramar questline was for flight when it unlocked. Only reason I did the rep grinds in WoD also.

The whistle was nice, but it pales in comparison to flight. I think I've only used it once since unlocking flight.

From the fact there is only 2 or 3 flying mounts in the whole game........oh wait that's not it.

[RoKPaNda]

From the fact there is only 2 or 3 flying mounts in the whole game........oh wait that's not it.

I'm not sure you read that right. The people who are against flying seem to think they're a majority.

[cparle87]

That isn't my position.

That is what no flying pro vanilla players want..the vanilla maps and experiences. I liked the zone design of BC, WotLK, and MoP with the right mix of vertical scale but also horizontal extended layout and terrace designs.

Argus was difficult to navigate because it was designed this way on purpose which I think is poor design.

MoBA is a proper description for players trying to turn WoW aka MMORPG into MOBA lite.

If players like MOBA they should go play a MOBA.

WoW players like a MMORPG.

That is why Argus map was a failure because it had even some of the anti flying crowd perplexed with the map design.

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It is no longer about challenge but about increase activity metrics.

Well, these aren't vanilla maps, they are Legion maps. I don't see any problem with navigating Argus, it's a l2p issue imho. Not really sure what you mean by turning WoW into a moba, it's literally impossible. Again, people aren't pigeonholed into enjoying just one genre. Obviously people who play WoW like mmo's, otherwise they would't be playing it.

Again, explain why Argus' layout was a failure besides 'cause I said so.' There is absolutely no difficulty or challenge getting from any point to another in a reasonable point. It's no Blade's Edge Mountains where your destination might be 100 feet from you, but you have to cross half the zone to find a hidden ramp to get up to the correct level. Or Howling Fjord where your destination is half a mile up and you need to go half a mile that way to find the elevator, then half a mile back to your destination. BC and Wrath had zones much more difficult to navigate than Argus is, so I'm baffled by the hostility.

[Elim Garak]

Again, explain why Argus' layout was a failure besides 'cause I said so.' There is absolutely no difficulty or challenge getting from any point to another in a reasonable point. It's no Blade's Edge Mountains where your destination might be 100 feet from you, but you have to cross half the zone to find a hidden ramp to get up to the correct level. Or Howling Fjord where your destination is half a mile up and you need to go half a mile that way to find the elevator, then half a mile back to your destination. BC and Wrath had zones much more difficult to navigate than Argus is, so I'm baffled by the hostility.

It seems you have never been to Argus. There is a million situations like you describe but in addition to that each ramp is filled with mobs. While in TBC and WoTLK you could FLY.

[Battlebeard]

Because you've decided to play an MMO but want it to be something else. It's as if you went to an Italian restaurant and told them they should really serve Chinese food. Want Chinese? Go to a Chinese restaurant. Same thing here.



Aside from the fact that leveling is part of the RPG genre it's silly to imagine that they'd drastically change this game 12+ years into its life.

If an MMO with leveling isn't for you and you like MOBAs, fine. Go play one.

First, I'm glad to not be the only one who make examples out of the game (restaurants etc) But yeah, that is one way to look at it. If you want chinese food, you should go to a chinese restaurant, sure.

BUT!

If the italian restaurants are starting to seeing less and less customers, maybe THEY should also think about change. If people keep asking for chinese food at an italian restaurant and not as many want italian food, maybe they should think about making it into like a "World Cousine" restaurant, or they might get out of business.

Same for WoW, I think we can all agree the mmorpg genre is not as big as it once was and if Blizzard are starting to lose subs, they might need a drastic change. I don't think we are there quite yet, but in the future, Blizzard might have to change.

[cparle87]

It seems you have never been to Argus. There is a million situations like you describe but in addition to that each ramp is filled with mobs. While in TBC and WoTLK you could FLY.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...oration/legion

Care to try again? If you don't know how to strafe to avoid putting your backs to mobs so they can't daze you that is, as I said, a l2p issue.

[Elim Garak]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...oration/legion

Bought an account?

Care to try again? If you don't know how to strafe to avoid putting your backs to mobs so they can't daze you that is, as I said, a l2p issue.

I haven't even mentioned daze.