possible solution to food stamps

[Mormolyce]

Go after both. There's no sense in leaving $60-70 billion on the table.

It's not on the table. The fraction you could recover minus the costs of pursuing it is on the table.

[Doctor Amadeus]

You want to look at how much is wasted by, eg, the military? The military is frankly one giant boondoggle...

10% is actually really small by the standards of government spending.

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Hmm, did a bit of research, apparently SNAP fraud exists but is overreported by guess who.

Republicans because it’s their go to issue.

[Machismo]

It's not on the table. The fraction you could recover minus the costs of pursuing it is on the table.

Then go after that fraction. You could likely get back 30-50% of it, and make future fraud much less enticing. It's amazing how fast people stop wanting to steal money, when there's a real thread of federal, pound-you-in-the-ass prison for doing it.

This is as much as the entire budget for the Department of Education. Ignoring it seems damn foolish.

[Mormolyce]

Then go after that fraction. You could likely get back 30-50% of it, and make future fraud much less enticing. It's amazing how fast people stop wanting to steal money, when there's a real thread of federal, pound-you-in-the-ass prison for doing it.

This is as much as the entire budget for the Department of Education. Ignoring it seems damn foolish.

No, because instead of getting $70m back from one person, you're going after thousands of people - so for each one you have to spend money to investigate the fraud, verify that it was in fact fraud, collect evidence, build the case, take it to court, pay the associated costs of prolonged legal action and hope to get a conviction.

Then you find out that the defendant has already spent it all on drugs and is unemployed so you're never getting it back.

That's why it's not an attractive proposition, generally speaking.

Meanwhile you could go after one big company for billions, that's one set of research, one set of legal costs and one case to win. And they have the money to pay it back.

I know where I'd invest my time and money.

[therealstegblob]

I presume they either sell the cards or whatever resaleable goods they can buy on it in order to get the drugs etc that they want.

You can't exactly sell an EBT card. I mean, you can, but unless you also sell your social security and other identification methods the EBT will come up for re-evaluation after a couple months. Then the guy who bought the EBT card wouldn't be able to use it anymore and the guy who sold it would have to say they lost their card and get a new one, which is kind of hard because the gub'ment is typically pretty suspicious of someone from a low-income high-drug area 'losing' their card, especially anymore than once.

[Machismo]

No, because instead of getting $70m back from one person, you're going after thousands of people - so for each one you have to spend money to investigate the fraud, verify that it was in fact fraud, collect evidence, build the case, take it to court, pay the associated costs of prolonged legal action and hope to get a conviction.

Then you find out that the defendant has already spent it all on drugs and is unemployed so you're never getting it back.

That's why it's not an attractive proposition, generally speaking.

Meanwhile you could go after one big company for billions, that's one set of research, one set of legal costs and one case to win. And they have the money to pay it back.

I know where I'd invest my time and money.

You do realize that almost all of this fraud is done by doctors and hospitals, right? That's how it works.

If you want to ignore it, then don't bitch and moan that the government doesn't pay for a program you want... as you just tried to ignore $60-70 billion.

You seem to think you cannot try and cut costs and waste in both areas? It's entirely possible to do both, no need to pick between the two.

[PACOX]

why is it ok for our military members but not for welfare recipients?

Military personnel do not eat MREs everyday...

[Nathasil]

Some people really lack any kind of reflection of the world around them. Just because you are not "on benefits" means you pay for everything that makes you yourself? Do you have ANY idea what the infrastructure around you is worth? What is having educated people around you to hire worth? How much have you paid for all of that exactly? Almost nothing. Taxes "should" pay for that....but as we all know, the richer you are, the less taxes you pay. So who is suposed to pay for the luxury of having a western society if the rich people dont?

Also, everything that goes out as "welfare" goes back into the system immediately because poor people do not hoard their money away like the rich people do. Welfare is a economy-stimulus program. And that's fine. There is nothing wrong with that. Until some right-wing-shitheads who have no fucking idea of how an economy that can actually support itself for an extended period of time come along and claim how poor people are the burden of their existence.

Poor people are the reason you are rich. Think about that for a second. It's true.

[Machismo]

Some people really lack any kind of reflection of the world around them. Just because you are not "on benefits" means you pay for everything that makes you yourself? Do you have ANY idea what the infrastructure around you is worth? What is having educated people around you to hire worth? How much have you paid for all of that exactly? Almost nothing. Taxes "should" pay for that....but as we all know, the richer you are, the less taxes you pay. So who is suposed to pay for the luxury of having a western society if the rich people dont?

Also, everything that goes out as "welfare" goes back into the system immediately because poor people do not hoard their money away like the rich people do. Welfare is a economy-stimulus program. And that's fine. There is nothing wrong with that. Until some right-wing-shitheads who have no fucking idea of how an economy that can actually support itself for an extended period of time come along and claim how poor people are the burden of their existence.

Poor people are the reason you are rich. Think about that for a second. It's true.

They are also the reason the middle class and wealthy pay so much in taxes. That means they are the reason they are less rich.

[Mormolyce]

You do realize that almost all of this fraud is done by doctors and hospitals, right? That's how it works.

If you want to ignore it, then don't bitch and moan that the government doesn't pay for a program you want... as you just tried to ignore $60-70 billion.

I just finished explaining to you why it isn't $60-70b. Even assuming I believe that number.

I'm not sure exactly why we're talking about medicare overpayments to doctors anyway, since my point was about going after welfare fraud.

[Machismo]

I just finished explaining to you why it isn't $60-70b. Even assuming I believe that number.

I'm not sure exactly why we're talking about medicare overpayments to doctors anyway, since my point was about going after welfare fraud.

And I was specifically asked about medicare fraud. Go after all forms of welfare fraud and abuse. Go after Medicare, SNAP, Medicaid, defense spending.

I'm still trying to figure out why you want to ignore the chance to get back money that was hustled away from the taxpayers. As for what we were originally discussing, I was talking about Medicare fraud when you responded to me.

[Masark]

And I was specifically asked about medicare fraud. Go after all forms of welfare fraud and abuse. Go after Medicare, SNAP, Medicaid, defense spending.

That would require Democrats in office. Republicans like to elect the perpetrators of the fraud to office.

[Cruor]

Actually, no.

The fact that people are required to seek employment means they at are an inherent disadvantage in terms of bargaining power. In order for any job to be paid what it is actually worth, employment needs to be entirely optional.

Also, does your "advice" apply to those members of the military who are on food stamps?

1) How EXACTLY do you propose to make work optional? Are you going to pay for my food, shelter, V8 Supercharged 640 HP F 150 with upgraded shocks, guns, and other things I need? How is work an option? How could it be? Can I come to this magic world please?

2) I was in the military, were you? Not one person I knew was on food stamps. Many lived pay check to pay check because they were idiots... but they got by. Others had issues they had to pay for and so couldn't buy Christmas presents, so we had a fund raiser for them. I didn't mind helping because they were people who actually do stuff and had a bad turn and I had the OPTION to help, it wasn't stolen from me like welfare for bums who had kids at 15.

[Spiffums]

How about get a fucking job and stop living off of other people? Don't fuck like animals and have kids you can't support. You know, be a responsible person.

Hey get out of here with that personal responsibility crap! #cradletothegrave

[Cruor]

That would require Democrats in office. Republicans like to elect the perpetrators of the fraud to office.

Why does it matter to you? I don't give a damn what happens in Canada.

[Masark]

Why does it matter to you? I don't give a damn what happens in Canada.

Because any time your idiots fuck up your economy, it fucks up our economy.

[Mormolyce]

I'm still trying to figure out why you want to ignore the chance to get back money that was hustled away from the taxpayers. As for what we were originally discussing, I was talking about Medicare fraud when you responded to me.

I've explained it to you at least three times now.

[XangXu]

How about paying them a living wage?

Or is this a crazy Canadian idea?

[Deleted]

How about get a fucking job and stop living off of other people? Don't fuck like animals and have kids you can't support. You know, be a responsible person.

Dont come here with your personal responsibility talk.

[Independent voter]

Because any time your idiots fuck up your economy, it fucks up our economy.

Canada is the bug stuck to the '69 Cadillac Coup deVille's windshield that is the US barreling down Route 66 at 100 miles per hour.