How to counter retail-mentality in classic?

[cparle87]

I don't understand where people get the above idea from. Do you people not realise that there are people currently playing Legion that also played during Vanilla? Instead you decide to paint all people currently playing as retards. Yet you also call those people the toxic ones.


And stop trying to make "retailers" work, idiots. It's a moronic term that makes no fucking sense.

Look at the guy on the last page, he calls them "retail autists". It's just the latest thing wannabe cool/hardcore people brag about to make themselves feel superior to the unwashed masses. Being a vanilla purist.

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Honestly the 0 changes purist crowd is a minority among minorities when it comes to Classic.

They are likely going to do a mixture of "modernization" and "classic features" that won't mesh well at all and end up being a half assed game.

Not that a 0 changes 1:1 re-release of Vanilla in the form of Classic would do much better in a modern MMO market.

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Right, the epic gaming experience of 1000 player queues, random disconnects because server instability, or Blizzard literally turning their servers off for no reason.

See, I wouldn't be so skeptical of this vanilla purists "I LOVED VANILLA HURR DURR" crowd if it wasn't for the fact that I know Vanilla's experience wasn't a quality fucking game by any means. It was barely worth its 40$ box price in a pre-2008 economic crisis video game era mostly because of tech issues that had nothing to do with gameplay.

But sure, please do go on how vanilla and its auto-attack centric gameplay is just so interesting -eyeroll- I'm sure it will enrapture every youth in America. Oh and the quests. Those epicly amazing and long quest chains that... Had no plot, structure or story whatsoever.

It was like a choose your own adventure book with no ending or middle.

Source on 'turning the servers off for no reason'? I know you're one of the most recent Blizzard-bashers, but even you should realize from a business standpoint doing that makes no sense.

[Akka]

However when you have people who try and drive away interested players and this whole "retailers" bullshit then why would anyone want to be a part of a community like that?

You realize that it's exactly the other way around ?
Purist don't want to drive away INTERESTED players (=> players interested in WoW Classic). They want to drive away NON-INTERESTED players (=> "well, I actually don't want to play Classic WoW, I want it to be changed and am interested in a "pristine version").

On the opposite, people who ask for lots of changes (or core changes) are the ones trying to drive away people who ARE INTERESTED in Classic, by making it non-Classic.

If someone wants to experience WoW Classic, ACTUAL WoW Classic, nobody in the Vanilla side is going to want to drive him away, on the contrary.

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See, I wouldn't be so skeptical of this vanilla purists "I LOVED VANILLA HURR DURR" crowd if it wasn't for the fact that I know Vanilla's experience wasn't a quality fucking game by any means. It was barely worth its 40$ box price in a pre-2008 economic crisis video game era mostly because of tech issues that had nothing to do with gameplay.

So basically, you wouldn't be so skeptical if you were able to differenciate between your tastes and absolute universality.
We can both agree with that, though that's probably not what you were able to understand (by definition).

[Vorkreist]

Honestly the 0 changes purist crowd is a minority among minorities when it comes to Classic.

Its not. Just because you band with your drooling retailers in a few threads to shit on classic doesn't make you the "classic crowd"

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You realize that it's exactly the other way around ?
Purist don't want to drive away INTERESTED players (=> players interested in WoW Classic). They want to drive away NON-INTERESTED players (=> "well, I actually don't want to play Classic WoW, I want it to be changed and am interested in a "pristine version").

On the opposite, people who ask for lots of changes (or core changes) are the ones trying to drive away people who ARE INTERESTED in Classic, by making it non-Classic.

If someone wants to experience WoW Classic, ACTUAL WoW Classic, nobody in the Vanilla side is going to want to drive him away, on the contrary.

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So basically, you wouldn't be so skeptical if you were able to differenciate between your tastes and absolute universality.
We can both agree with that, though that's probably not what you were able to understand (by definition).

Exactly. Retailers who will just try classic for a few days and then move back to Bfa should have no say whatsoever about how classic should be.

[Specialka]

You do realize Blizzard never said Classic=Vanilla?

[Battlebeard]

You do realize Blizzard never said Classic=Vanilla?

We can only go on small information and rumours. Considering it's so much desire from players to make an identical server as Vanilla, I think this will actually happen. If we get a changed game I don't think nearly enough players will even try it to make it worth it AND the outrage would be enournmous from vanilla server fans.

They never said it, but if they are smart enough, and they should be, classic will be pretty much identical to vanilla.

[Specialka]

We can only go on small information and rumours. Considering it's so much desire from players to make an identical server as Vanilla, I think this will actually happen. If we get a changed game I don't think nearly enough players will even try it to make it worth it AND the outrage would be enournmous from vanilla server fans.

They never said it, but if they are smart enough, and they should be, classic will be pretty much identical to vanilla.

If they want it to be successful on the long run, they will make changes.

[Deleted]

1. Classic =\= Vanilla afaik from Blizzcon
2. Some "purist" mindset is cancer as fuck and it will be probably even worse than "retail" mindset.
3. Blizzard want to min max the profit from Classic hence they will make Classic as the majority of "vanilla" players want, even if it is with some changes.

[Battlebeard]

If they want it to be successful on the long run, they will make changes.

But that would mean losing the fan-boys so to speak (I am one of those fan boys) who want the original game. The whole point of these servers is to offer a nostalgia trip. They have the regular game to make changes to and to make the successful good game.

I mean, why would ANYONE play Classic if it's not original? Why would anyone prio a changed-classic server over retail? Makes no sense to me.

We gotta remember, that if you compare Vanilla to Retail, overall, Vanilla WAS SHIT pure gamewise, BUT we still love it cause we had a good time back then, and nostalgia is a hell of a drug and we want the shitty parts cause of nostalgic reasons. It has so many bad parts but will still be very fun for us who loved the original game at the time. If you change the game, you remove the nostalgia part, and all that remain is a shit game. So they will gain 0 success with changes.

[Rotted]

Getting rid of retailers and purist labels would be a nice start.

[Battlebeard]

1. Classic =\= Vanilla afaik from Blizzcon
2. Some "purist" mindset is cancer as fuck and it will be probably even worse than "retail" mindset.
3. Blizzard want to min max the profit from Classic hence they will make Classic as the majority of "vanilla" players want, even if it is with some changes.

I agree that the "purist mindset" might seem unhealthy, but I am prolly one of the biggest purist here. I said it before, and can say it again, these servers are ONLY for nostalgic reasons and they will exist to please those who miss the original game. If they change anything, the servers becomes completely pointless and me and thousands and thousands of people would not play at all. I would never play private servers, cause I don't wanna risk a ban, but others will, and if Blizzard want people to prio pure private servers so to speak, then yeah, make changes...

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Getting rid of retailers and purist labels would be a nice start.

Well, I guess, but it's the easiest way to get a point across. I can't think of a better word to summarize the group of people, that I belong to, that want absolutely ZERO changes to the game. We purists don't want a good game, we want an original game, even if it means it will be a lot worse than it can be.

[Specialka]

But that would mean losing the fan-boys so to speak (I am one of those fan boys) who want the original game. The whole point of these servers is to offer a nostalgia trip. They have the regular game to make changes to and to make the successful good game.

I mean, why would ANYONE play Classic if it's not original? Why would anyone prio a changed-classic server over retail? Makes no sense to me.

We gotta remember, that if you compare Vanilla to Retail, overall, Vanilla WAS SHIT pure gamewise, BUT we still love it cause we had a good time back then, and nostalgia is a hell of a drug and we want the shitty parts cause of nostalgic reasons. It has so many bad parts but will still be very fun for us who loved the original game at the time. If you change the game, you remove the nostalgia part, and all that remain is a shit game. So they will gain 0 success with changes.

That is where you got it wrong, bro. If they make changes, they will maybe make vanilla better than it was, because, like you said, it was shit. So it will maybe catter to more players than fanbois alone, because they are only a few individual.

[Rotted]

I agree that the "purist mindset" might seem unhealthy, but I am prolly one of the biggest purist here. I said it before, and can say it again, these servers are ONLY for nostalgic reasons and they will exist to please those who miss the original game. If they change anything, the servers becomes completely pointless and me and thousands and thousands of people would not play at all. I would never play private servers, cause I don't wanna risk a ban, but others will, and if Blizzard want people to prio pure private servers so to speak, then yeah, make changes...

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Well, I guess, but it's the easiest way to get a point across. I can't think of a better word to summarize the group of people, that I belong to, that want absolutely ZERO changes to the game. We purists don't want a good game, we want an original game, even if it means it will be a lot worse than it can be.

But you're creating a bigger gap between people by assigning labels and have no interest of finding common grounds. You're helping to create a toxic community before we've even seen development footage of classic let alone when it launches. And theoretically, you've already changed the classic experience by changing the community

[Battlebeard]

That is where you got it wrong, bro. If they make changes, they will maybe make vanilla better than it was, because, like you said, it was shit. So it will maybe catter to more players than fanbois alone, because they are only a few individual.

Well, it's hard to see how many of the people who will play are the fanboys, but I think it's a lot of us. If Blizzard make changes to make the servers better and try to "lure in" people outside of the fanboys, it would be a huge middle-finger to us fanboys who cried out for these servers for years.

The people who wanted these servers the most (us fanboys) would be denied what we want, to make a semi-vanilla server for other people. I would be completely outraged and maybe quit Blizzard games all together and Blizzard would get so much hate I am not sure that would be a good strategy.

No one asked for a better and improved vanilla, we asked for the original game back. I am not sure who they cater to by giving us semi-vanilla servers. I still don't see why anyone who is not a vanilla-fanboy would pick improved vanilla servers over retail.

[Specialka]

Blizzard will do it in a way to get the more profit out of it. And clearly, gaming history has shown that you do not have to catter to fanbois or purists but to all the other one, so sorry to bust your bubble.

[Battlebeard]

But you're creating a bigger gap between people by assigning labels and have no interest of finding common grounds. You're helping to create a toxic community before we've even seen development footage of classic let alone when it launches. And theoretically, you've already changed the classic experience by changing the community

Well, the thing is that we purists (well many of us, I am no spokesperson) don't want to find a common ground. We have no interest in compromising at all. We play the unchanged classic game or not at all. Yes, I can tell the community is already kind of toxic, and I already find myself more toxic than I should be, cause I don't trust Blizzard to not mess this up for me. I know I should not get outraged before I get any confirmation. But yeah, if we find out they release a changed game, hell will break lose.

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Blizzard will do it in a way to get the more profit out of it. And clearly, gaming history has shown that you do not have to catter to fanbois or purists but to all the other one, so sorry to bust your bubble.

Yes, of course they love money, but I think that in the long run, keeping the fanboys subscribed would be a better profit than luring in many new players who might quit later. Remember, whether this will be a pure or changed classic game, it will remain classic. There will not be any TBC added to these servers, they will remain up to level 60, changed or not.

I am very certain the non-fanboys will get bored of this eventually, even if the game has changes. While us purists could play an un-changed for years and years and years.

Catering to the non-fanboys to sell many copiest but to see the game wither and die in 1 year seems like a worse deal than catering to the fanboys who will play it for an eternity.

[Specialka]

This is where we diverged because we can't agree about that and we will have to wait for Blizzard to release Classic.

[davesurfer]

Read your own pathetic attempt at an insult first before you go back to pokemon farming.

Do you not see the irony in this statement?

[Deleted]

But sure, please do go on how vanilla and its auto-attack centric gameplay is just so interesting -eyeroll-

Seriously? You should really try vanilla. I just tried vanilla again, and already at level 10 a normal quest forced me to really think and use all my abilities—and lvl 10 itself was felt like a big milestone since I got a bunch of new abilities. I had to fight two mobs, lvl 9 healer and lvl 11 melee, as a rogue. I had to use every trick and ability I could think of, interrupting casts with a stun, popping defensive CD, drinking a pot, stunning and bandaging, etc. etc. in order to make it. One mistake, like a missed interrupt, and I'd wipe—and I did multiple times. It actually challenged me and made me think and use all the abilities—and I raided as a rogue in all the content from Kara to Firelands hc, including Sunwell and LK25hc.

If something is "auto-attack centric gameplay" it's modern WoW (outside mythic raiding, obviously). Last I played retail in MoP I leveled from 1 to max from scratch (no gold, no heirlooms) and it was 100% brainless spamming with no thinking required and no risk of ever dying.

[Specialka]

I do remember leveling my warrior as arm back in Vanilla, and I was just auto attacking mob one after another because I did not have enough rage to use my skill. Try to auto attack your way to 110 now they have adjusted the hp of mobs, you are in for a surprise.

[Vorkreist]

Blizzard will do it in a way to get the more profit out of it. And clearly, gaming history has shown that you do not have to catter to fanbois or purists but to all the other one, so sorry to bust your bubble.

Go read Blizzard's statement again.