As Gunman Rampaged Through Florida School, Armed Deputy ‘Never Went In’

[kasuke06]

And someone with a melee weapon is someone you can run from or overpower.

The killing becomes so much easier with a gun. With a knife or other implement, you have to personally make sure you damage vital parts of someone’s body if you want them to die from it. With a gun, you point and pull the trigger. It’s less personal, takes less intent.
If you go around slitting peoples artieries, you’re reeeeaaallly fucked up.

Seriously? lemme guess, you want to ban all guns forever and ever because they kill people with one single bullet no matter where?

[IIamaKing]

We need better screening of cops. I cant really begrudge a human for acting a coward in the shit. Iv never been in any shit, 90% of the posters here have never been in any shit. Acting like running into a hail of fire is something we would all do....The men who run into that shit are HEROES. We arent all heroes. We would all love to see ourselves running in, saving the day. But until its you, having to go in and lay down your life maybe, you just dont know.

I dont blame them, I blame the sheriff for hiring inept people.

[turboether]

like said above, he went on early retirement.

But your statement make little sense. If having the expectation that a lone cop would go rambo and save the day is ludicrous, you can't fire a cop for making the decision to wait for back up.

Correction noted. It doesn't change my point. I can guess in my country (and possibly some European ones too) that engaging with lethal force is probably not the first step protocol. Considering America's gun culture I find it hard to judge since the environment is different. If this happened here and the officer went in guns blazing you can be sure there would be an argument post-event that they didn't do enough to deescalate the situation, which is perhaps an equally absurd expectation. The point I am concerned more with is him not applying protocol. It's dereliction of duty, which for an officer of the law is disappointing.

[Naoto]

We need better screening of cops. I cant really begrudge a human for acting a coward in the shit. Iv never been in any shit, 90% of the posters here have never been in any shit. Acting like running into a hail of fire is something we would all do....The men who run into that shit are HEROES. We arent all heroes. We would all love to see ourselves running in, saving the day. But until its you, having to go in and lay down your life maybe, you just dont know.

I dont blame them, I blame the sheriff for hiring inept people.

90% of the posters here wouldn't no but we wouldn't take the job in that case, why take a job where you're an armed deputy supposed to protect children if you are a coward? don't take the job, don't take ANY job you are too much of a coward to do especially when it involves peoples lives, this guy took a job he didn't have the balls for when someone with bigger balls than him could've had it and probably stopped it from happening.

It's a fucking disgusting thing to do man, don't make excuses for him or you can make excuses for everyone, what should the army do when faced with terrorists, run like cowards because 90% of us would do the same? what should the police do when trying to protect us, run like cowards? this guy is fucking scum no matter what way you look at it, there are teachers who did more than him UNARMED, teachers trying to save lives while he hid outside shitting his pants with a gun in his holster, this guy is a disgrace.

[Gorsameth]

90% of the posters here wouldn't no but we wouldn't take the job in that case, why take a job where you're an armed deputy supposed to protect children if you are a coward? don't take the job, don't take ANY job you are too much of a coward to do especially when it involves peoples lives, this guy took a job he didn't have the balls for when someone with bigger balls than him could've had it and probably stopped it from happening.

It's a fucking disgusting thing to do man, don't make excuses for him or you can make excuses for everyone, what should the army do when faced with terrorists, run like cowards because 90% of us would do the same? what should the police do when trying to protect us, run like cowards? this guy is fucking scum no matter what way you look at it, there are teachers who did more than him UNARMED, teachers trying to save lives while he hid outside shitting his pants with a gun in his holster, this guy is a disgrace.

Again, no one knows how they react when this happens to you. He most likely thought he could do it every day of his career until that day

[IIamaKing]

90% of the posters here wouldn't no but we wouldn't take the job in that case, why take a job where you're an armed deputy supposed to protect children if you are a coward? don't take the job, don't take ANY job you are too much of a coward to do especially when it involves peoples lives, this guy took a job he didn't have the balls for when someone with bigger balls than him could've had it and probably stopped it from happening.

My point is/was NO ONE knows how they will react until the shit hits the fan. So unless these were all ex-military guys who had been in the shit and knew they were cowards, I have a hard time raking them over the coals.

don't take ANY job you are too much of a coward to do

It would be great if we all knew for certain how we would react in every given situation. But we dont, so lets not act like we do.

Some military men are cowards, even with all their training and screening. Cops get even less.

[Vankrys]

It's pretty low for the president of the united states to use a national meeting (international even, considering the guest) to single out and name a guy and shame it on national television.

Hate to be in this guy's shoes in the foreseeable future. The trolling, the insults, threats even he is going to receive. Time to low profile like fuck.

[judgementofantonidas]

Nope, wrong, sorry dude that isn't what they get paid for, not in the way you think. Tes they are hired and trained to guard and stop people from breaking the law, they are however not obligated to go in their and trade their lives for anybody else.

I agree it would maybe be a nice idea for all the boot licking people have when it comes towards cops and them being automatically heros, but that is false. Which also tells you for the amount of police that actually DO put their lives on their line and die protecting others, how brave they actually must be.

But nope, there is no obligation for police of security guards to die for you, IN FACT I will go one better, even if you paid someone to be a personal bodyguard, they are not required or obligated to trade their lives for yours.

That is in the movies, real life isn't The Bodyguard!

Core Duties of a Police Officer
The primary duty of a police officer is to protect people and property. Common duties of police include controlling traffic, patrolling neighborhoods, responding to emergency calls, writing citations, delivering warrants, arresting violators and submitting incident reports in a timely manner. Police are also called occasionally to testify in court about a situation they witnessed or handled. Additionally, duties of police include educational outreach to the public to help prevent and solve crime. A typical day varies depending on the jurisdiction and agency type. For example, a police officer in the inner city typically spends more time responding to 911 calls and investigating crimes than a small town sheriff in a remote area.

Can't be much more clear than the very first sentene.

[HAcoreRD]

fun fact, "protect and serve" is just marketing.

That said, cowardice of this magnitude is disheartening.

please enlighten us on the bravery your job requires.

it's disheartening, no argument there, but cops are human and can still succumb to fear

[Deleted]

No I'm not, you're moving the goal posts. To actually answer your question, it would depend in the circumstances and environment. In general, yeah it's probably more efficient if murdering people is your goal.

Ain’t moving any goalposts. I had this goalpost from the start.

Then we can agree on that at least.

Now here’s a new goalpost though! Can we support that more guns have prevented school shootings somewhere or that a person carrying has stopped one? I genuinely don’t know.
At the same time, can we support that less guns and stricter control has lead to safer environments? Is there any correlation in the states in which shootings occur, to their actual gun laws?

[judgementofantonidas]

Would this very thing not also apply to the cop?

Was he trained for active combat duty?
I would hazard a guess he wasn't. So what are the odds that your armed teacher will react the same way this cop did? I would guess rather high.

Everyone hopes they are ready and willing to do it when the time comes, but no one knows how they will react when it actually happens.
Do you think the cop will have a good nights rest for the rest of his life? He knows he fucked up and he will have to live with that. (but more likely he will commit suicide )

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People here will happily tell you that shooting a leg is impossible and police should always aim to kill.

I always shoot in controlled pairs center of mass. Most professional shooters are trained the same way. However at close range if you are feeling squirmy that you are shooting at a child, which nobody would blame you for, a thigh or shoulder shot could certainly be attempted. Although anyone who knows anatomy and practices shooting people as a profession also knows that you are in just as much risk of killing a person shooting them any where.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, total time from start to finish of the shooting spree was 6 min.

By the time law enforcement had been contacted, gotten there and organized it was already over.

You are clearly basing your opinion of what happened on a picture with a catchy headline and that really is a disgrace. These are real people living real lives with real families. Perhaps they deserve a little more consideration than being Fox News emotional click bait of the day.

You are correct in the statment that the media is the enemy of truth.

[Heladys]

Trained police can't do the literal job they're paid to do, but Donny Dumpass wants to arm teachers.

[spdr]

Ain’t moving any goalposts. I had this goalpost from the start.

Then we can agree on that at least.

Now here’s a new goalpost though! Can we support that more guns have prevented school shootings somewhere or that a person carrying has stopped one? I genuinely don’t know.
At the same time, can we support that less guns and stricter control has lead to safer environments? Is there any correlation in the states in which shootings occur, to their actual gun laws?

No. We had an assault weapons ban in the 90s, and it didn't lower crime rates. Chicago has had some of the toughest laws, and it has a majority of shootings in our country. California also has some of the toughest gun laws, but the San Bernardino terrorists were able to get guns through straw purchases and shoot up their workplace as well as build pipebombs in their home.

[Buckeyenut88]

See all we needed was a good guy with a gun....oh wait.

[Vankrys]

Core Duties of a Police Officer
The primary duty of a police officer is to protect people and property. Common duties of police include controlling traffic, patrolling neighborhoods, responding to emergency calls, writing citations, delivering warrants, arresting violators and submitting incident reports in a timely manner. Police are also called occasionally to testify in court about a situation they witnessed or handled. Additionally, duties of police include educational outreach to the public to help prevent and solve crime. A typical day varies depending on the jurisdiction and agency type. For example, a police officer in the inner city typically spends more time responding to 911 calls and investigating crimes than a small town sheriff in a remote area.

Can't be much more clear than the very first sentene.

Lesson in reality.

The police department can't ask their officers to have a reckless or suicidal behavior on the field. Even if you are completely apathetic and don't care about their lives, the costs of medical care, invalidity pensions or compensations for families alone is a deterrent to have cops acting irresponsibly.

[Deleted]

I mean, can you honestly blame them though? I get that it's their job but people don't want to die, perhaps the better option would be to not have more guns around than people, rather than expecting men and women with families to play hero.

[frogger237]

Trained police can't do the literal job they're paid to do, but Donny Dumpass wants to arm teachers.

But if all the teachers have guns all these people will be too scared to shoot up a school! Its not like most plan on dying during the event anyways.

And lets not forget that only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun. Sure all these school shooters and stuff were considered good guys with guns up until they started killing people, and the majority if not all used legally purchased weapons, but ummmmmm Good Guys With Guns!!!!

Its also funny that they cry how if we ban certain guns they will only be in the hands of criminals and yet they think a single deputy armed with a pistol is going to 1vs1 a guy using one of the guns people want banned. So what is it, do good guys need these weapons? Or are these weapons more deadly?

The fact of the matter is there are people who would be too scared to do anything in a situation like this, as well as people who wouldn't be able to pull the trigger and kill someone even if they are killing people and you can never be sure until they are in a situation such as this. What are we supposed to do hold mock school shootings all around the country without telling any of the teachers its fake then arm the teachers that actually tried to stop them?

[Deleted]

No. We had an assault weapons ban in the 90s, and it didn't lower crime rates. Chicago has had some of the toughest laws, and it has a majority of shootings in our country. California also has some of the toughest gun laws, but the San Bernardino terrorists were able to get guns through straw purchases and shoot up their workplace as well as build pipebombs in their home.

There may be a great deal of weapons already in circulation and established criminality that smuggles in weapons. They have a lot of gun crime, but I’m wondering about shootings in particular.
Chicago is just a city though, right?
Hardcore criminals and terrorists will always find a way. But teenagers won’t. Know what I mean?

Are there any examples of the opposite? Gun liberal states in which crime is lower or in which gun carriers have prevented a shooting like this one.

[spdr]

There may be a great deal of weapons already in circulation and established criminality that smuggles in weapons. They have a lot of gun crime, but I’m wondering about shootings in particular.
Chicago is just a city though, right?
Hardcore criminals and terrorists will always find a way. But teenagers won’t. Know what I mean?

Are there any examples of the opposite? Gun liberal states in which crime is lower or in which gun carriers have prevented a shooting like this one.

There was a church shooter in Texas last year that was stopped by an nra instructor with an ar15.

[Milchshake]

Sounds like the deputies did the math. I thought people on this forum were all about STEM life?
Him: Armed with an AR15, smoke grenades
Me: A pistol

The shooter wins on accuracy, power, and capacity.