As Gunman Rampaged Through Florida School, Armed Deputy ‘Never Went In’

[Tiwack]

See all we needed was a good guy with a gun....oh wait.

QFT

You can arm every citizen but it won't change a thing if they're all diddling their thumbs when something bad happens.
Best way to stop a bad gun is preventing it gets to that point in the first place.

[Allybeboba]

I find it funny the same people on these Forums that will slam a Cop for going into a situation with a Gun drawn and killing a Criminal will be the same people that will complain that a Cop didn't go into a Situation with a Gun drawn to possibly kill a Criminal.

"OMG THE POLICE SHOULD NOT HAVE OPEN FIRED ON THAT GUY REGARDLESS OF HIM HAVING A GUN"
"OMG THE ARMED POLICE DIDN'T GO IN AND CONFRONT A GUY REGARDLESS OF HIM HAVING A GUN"

What is it guys? Do you want Armed Police to go into deadly situations or do you not want them to? At least be consistent.

That’s because you the the cool thing to do right now.

At any rate, just like in most of the threads like this, before I condemn someone I require more information on the situation.

Peace

[Miyagie]

Again, no one knows how they react when this happens to you. He most likely thought he could do it every day of his career until that day

1. He isnt trained for that. You call the fucking SWAT when that shit happens again and AGAIN.
2. Not trained = will shot some random kids or the gunner will use a meatshield and he shot a random meatshield and get himself killed.
3. Waiting outside, escort the people to a save place or hiding outside with a drawn gun to hope that he will see the gunner are the only ways a police officer should handel this situation.

[Ghostpanther]

Again, you can spend your entire life confident that you will do the job required of you and go in there. I would bet everything this cop thought he could do it.
No one knows how they react until that moment happens, anyone who says otherwise is either lying to themselves or a sociopath.

Bullshit. While no one has a crystal ball, people need to be prepared to do what you can if someone needs help, even at the their own risk if that is part of their job. And it happens all the time around the world. A lot of times, people will just react without any thought of their lives. The cop (s) down there in the Fla School shooting have no damn business being cops. Cowards.

[Kronik85]

This topic is a great window into your post Armed Teachers world. "The teachers down there in <insert latest high school shooting event> have no damn business being teachers. Cowards."

Enjoy your new gun debate guys!

[Locruid]

SCOTUS ruled back in 2005 that Police do NOT have to protect the Citiizens.

So this deputy will get rich for violation of his rights

[Ghostpanther]

SCOTUS ruled back in 2005 that Police do NOT have to protect the Citiizens.

So this deputy will get rich for violation of his rights

This is true. But they do get paid to enforce the law. And it is against the law to kill people as such in this scenario. :P

[Themius]

Seems pretty easy spend a few more min thinking about it, maybe u will get it.

accuracy of cops highly trained cops falls to like 17%-20% when they're against a person in the field and we expect teachers random cc teachers to be better? you probably would have ended up with more dead.

[Mormolyce]

There was a church shooter in Texas last year that was stopped by an nra instructor with an ar15.

You are referring to the Sutherland Springs shooting?

Stephen Willeford shot at the killer with his AR-15 AFTER he'd left the church. The shooter had already killed 26 people inside the church, and was leaving. He and another guy wounded the killer and pursued him in a car, but he committed suicide before they could apprehend him.

"Stopped" is a hell of a stretch.

[Very Tired]

So a cop isn't brave enough to do their job. Why exactly do people think they could expect teachers to take over for it?

[alturic]

I didn't say guns. I said any type of weapons. Why can't citizens have tanks, nukes, etc?

Now, that's just a bit silly, that IS the definition of military weapons. FWIW, you can own tanks. You can even own fighter jets.

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It would certainly be harder to kill a lot of people inside a school building with a car. I can’t think of a tool that would have made it as easy for Cruz to kill 18 people than a gun.

Why are people raging at the school aspect? I don't give a fuck if it's a school, or not. A human life, is a human life. Plus you know, he could have just waited until school was let out.

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So a cop isn't brave enough to do their job. Why exactly do people think they could expect teachers to take over for it?

I'd make a comment about teachers saying they would take a bullet for their kids, but I won't. To your comment however, a cop's job is NOT to take a bullet nor is it a cops job to willingly put his life in danger. I'm typically always on law enforcements side, but law enforcement is just another job. They aren't "special" people.

[Mormolyce]

No. We had an assault weapons ban in the 90s, and it didn't lower crime rates. Chicago has had some of the toughest laws, and it has a majority of shootings in our country. California also has some of the toughest gun laws, but the San Bernardino terrorists were able to get guns through straw purchases and shoot up their workplace as well as build pipebombs in their home.

1) "Assault weapon" bans are aimed at spree shootings, not regular gun crime which is mostly committed with cheap pistols and the like. So it's not the right metric to measure. In any case the assault weapons ban was extremely limp wristed - only applied to certain weapons made after its introduction and expired 10 years later. Probably had little impact on the number of "assault weapons" in circulation as a result.

2) "Some of the toughest gun laws" by US standards means essentially none.

[Dystemper]

4 deputies refused to go inside. Coral Springs PD went in, One of them was off duty and in flip flops and shorts. The Chief of Police for Coral springs ripped into Sheriff Israel. If it comes out he gave his deputies a stand down order, he is toast.

Before Columbine SOP procedure for a school shooting was to wait for SWAT if at all possible. After that every dept in the country changed their Policy to that of go in, neutralize the target. They have found that a Armed intervention will save lives. This Sheriffs office is going to be under intense scrutiny. Many many lawsuits are going to be filed against both agencies

[announced]

You wouldn’t do any of those things. And there is a good reason why you don’t make calls like that. Because you would have been one additional added to the body count and escalated the situation further.

You don't know that, and a school shooting is pretty damn escalated already. How exactly would you escalate a shooting further, when a gunman is already executing every student within reach?
It's a good thing you'll never be a cop, because you have the worst instincts of any i've ever seen. Here's what you'd do.
1. put on a vest and unholster your weapon
2. enter the school and track him by the sound of the gunfire.
3. if theres a possibility of a shot without hitting any students then take it, if not keep waiting (yes i hear the shooter might have been wearing body armor so gotta take that into account as well)
4. If you can't get a shot off, that's ok just keep tracking the shooter so you can be the one arresting him when hes out of rounds or when an opportunity presents itself.

What you don't do is hide in the bushes like a pathetic coward. The deputy and 4 others failed to do their jobs, and they should be fired and denied any pension.

[Deleted]

Yea best thing to do is Yolo rush into the building where you hear someone is shooting and knowing nothing else. Like there can be 10 bad guys. You cant help if you are dead.

W8 for backup and then go in.

[Sparklelord]

Seems relevant

[Deleted]

I find it funny the same people on these Forums that will slam a Cop for going into a situation with a Gun drawn and killing a Criminal will be the same people that will complain that a Cop didn't go into a Situation with a Gun drawn to possibly kill a Criminal.

"OMG THE POLICE SHOULD NOT HAVE OPEN FIRED ON THAT GUY REGARDLESS OF HIM HAVING A GUN"
"OMG THE ARMED POLICE DIDN'T GO IN AND CONFRONT A GUY REGARDLESS OF HIM HAVING A GUN"

What is it guys? Do you want Armed Police to go into deadly situations or do you not want them to? At least be consistent.

You're mixing up 2 completely different stories and situations from recent news.
A) Young man gets Swatted by some punk kid and killed. He straight up got shot in the head by answering the door and not putting his hands up immediatly. Trigger happy cops killing an unarmed civilian
B) Kid goes on a rampage with an assault rifle drawn killing kids. Cops don't shoot a gun wielding maniac.

What people want is for the cops to be fucking smart and assess a situation then act.

Stop being ignorant.

[Doctor Amadeus]

You don't know that, and a school shooting is pretty damn escalated already. How exactly would you escalate a shooting further, when a gunman is already executing every student within reach?

How do we know that, and how do we know what they knew at the time. But to answer your question, who knows, there is a gun maybe more firing, we don't know for certain life has been taken yet, we might only know shots were fired.

So whoever is in there depending on how bad if they stopped or didn't shoot anybody if they suddenly shoot you and kill you because you come storming in there, maybe they decide the hell with this and actually figure they might as well actually kill people, or maybe they have a bomb to detonate, could be a high schooler could be a terrorist.

It's a good thing you'll never be a cop, because you have the worst instincts of any i've ever seen. Here's what you'd do.

I am not a cop because I wouldn't choose to be on, and my instincts aren't any different than most cops which is why cops don't do what you suggest, and act without thinking, reality vs what you see on TV

1. put on a vest and unholster your weapon

Sure you do and then you call Professor X before you go in and tell them to have their plane ready to back you up when they get there.

2. enter the school and track him by the sound of the gunfire.

Really that is what your Spidey Senses tell you? Based on what exactly what training is this that you have had where you can determine where a gun is being fired from the trajectory and if there is possibly more than 1 shooter, with other weapons like explosives?

3. if theres a possibility of a shot without hitting any students then take it, if not keep waiting (yes i hear the shooter might have been wearing body armor so gotta take that into account as well)

Here is a quick tip at least one person was already in the school firing which means they are drawn, you aren't and they are very likely to expect at some point you'll show up.

4. If you can't get a shot off, that's ok just keep tracking the shooter so you can be the one arresting him when hes out of rounds or when an opportunity presents itself.

Yeah because you know exactly how many there are, and you are going to know where the one that is in the school is located with your sonar abilities

What you don't do is hide in the bushes like a pathetic coward. The deputy and 4 others failed to do their jobs, and they should be fired and denied any pension.

That is a characterization, and judgement you are making based on what you are saying you would have done, which would have likely resulted in more death including your own and possibly making horrific situation a catastrophe.

Yeah, I will go ahead and rely on the experts and people there and not come down so hard on those that didn't go in.

[d00mGuArD]

You don't know that, and a school shooting is pretty damn escalated already. How exactly would you escalate a shooting further, when a gunman is already executing every student within reach?

If the gunman kills an armed person, he just got one extra weapon, ready and loaded, may make things worse
No one, not even soldiers or super special forces in the front line is expected to throw their lives, or just head into a situation guns blazing
They must follow orders and do things in specific ways according to training and law
Whether these guys did the things according to instructions and training and law, I don't have info details to know

[judgementofantonidas]

Lesson in reality.

The police department can't ask their officers to have a reckless or suicidal behavior on the field. Even if you are completely apathetic and don't care about their lives, the costs of medical care, invalidity pensions or compensations for families alone is a deterrent to have cops acting irresponsibly.

Nowhere in the duty description, in otherwords what they are paid to do, does it say suicidal. The individual in question on this thread could have been a complete coward and still engaged the shooter. For instance shoot them in the back.