Will ever Blizzard adress Wow’s pay2win problem?

[riptal]

You use real money to buy ingame gear and progress.

Thats called pay 2 win.

LOL And how you can pay for gears and progress? You can pay for boost, for tokens or for cosmetic. If you want to pay to get carried it's another thing cause you can farm gold and pay for that since forever. You dont have to buy golds with real money. BTW it's so easy to farm golds these days that you must be very lazy to buy golds with real currency. And if you really want to spend real money go ahead kid! fill your mom's card!

[tikcol]

I've never been boosted in WoW, it's not my fault you lack the ability to understand that your shiny purples and oranges aren't as important as not being trash at the game.

So you're one of those normal mode raiders that is actually a pro gamer. You just don't feel like doing better because reasons

[cuafpr]

You stink of denial. Anyone can reach engame and have endgame gear by paying moneys. There is no more pay2win than that.

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At the end of the day he won as much as the guy that didnt pay any money but put in the effort..

by that vague of a definition of pay2win there is not a game made that i know of that isn't pay to win. i could always pay someone better than me to play get past a boss, hunt a monster, get me gear, get me mats etc.... Pay2win is normally defined as being to buy an advantage with real money that can't be (or can't reasonably) be obtained in game via just playing it. For example if you could buy max TF fear with real money maybe, or if there was an item that boosted dps that didn't drop in game.

[tikcol]

by that vague of a definition of pay2win there is not a game made that i know of that isn't pay to win. i could always pay someone better than me to play get past a boss, hunt a monster, get me gear, get me mats etc.... Pay2win is normally defined as being to buy an advantage with real money that can't be (or can't reasonably) be obtained in game via just playing it. For example if you could buy max TF fear with real money maybe, or if there was an item that boosted dps that didn't drop in game.

Hmmmmmmmmrmmmm.

Those games also sell in game currency to their whale customers for $$$, right?

No

[Deleted]

I feel the OP has misunderstood the concept of P2W.

Game being P2W generally implies that it's impossible to stay competitive without spending money on the game, which WoW isn't. Even if someone were to spend all of the money in the world to buy boosts and reach ilvl cap he wouldn't have paid to win for the following reasons:
- Having gear doesn't necesarily make someone good. Unless the person buying the boost is also a godlike player which would be impossible.
- The third word of P2W is "win". How is buying a boost from people who've won winning? The only way to actually pay to win would be to buy a boost from the top progressing guild during progress, but selling a boost like that would likely cost the top progressing guild their victory, thus you wouldn't win anyway unless every single top guild did that, which they wouldn't. Because they want to win. The thing you can't buy. Winning.

[Devonitar]

Some people have a very wierd definition of winning.

[Lochton]

No. WoW is, in fact, a true p2win game in all it's glory.

Since the moment you could buy in game currency with real money.

Shame.

Uhm, yeah, you buy it from another player, not Blizzard.

[Lochton]

Obviously, legally speaking, when you follow blizzard’s terms and conditions, this game is not p2win.

I am speaking about third parties that provide services which are technically pay2win. Blizzard has a huge player base, in millions, it is hardly ever they will ban 100% of the players who use those services, which in return this makes for those users a pay2win situation.

I am not going to enlist what those third parties offer, but they will do something for you ingame which probably you will never do or get, for reasons that, you might have no time, the content is hard for you, etc.

Will Blizzard do something about the pay2win problem that third parties offer? I understand that those services existed since vanilla, but try to understand they were very expensive back then, I remember where 1 gold was worth 1 dollar or even more. The problem is now that poor eu countries charge for those services much cheaper hence more players are buying and its putting more fuel to the fire.

Sadly, 3rd party groups are harder to control. It doesn't make the game Pay2Win really, it is the mentality of the players - else all online games would be Pay2win.

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Raiding guilds should have other opportunities to make gold. As like large gold drops from real difficulty bosses. But selling raid spots should be bannable.

Shouldn't really be a bannable thing if it is for gold, if it was for real currency on the other hand, it should be.

[Aeula]

It'd be nice if they sold mythic raid and mythic+ dungeon boosts directly through the store rather than us simply buying the gold from said store to trade in exchange those services via a third party of potentially dubious trust.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

People can buy anything worth buying with gold considering gold itself can be traded for real money in reverse.

Ahah you are very naive. I see.

Unfortunately, the things you buy with gold doesn't win you much. WoW is all about regularly improving gradually and competing with your immediate peers (friends) and those you may have never interacted with (the community.)
If you have some one else do this for you, you lose.

So really, its pay2notplay.

Now if you could buy free legendaries and titanforges, then I MIGHT see your point. But you still need to actually be able to play the game to be able to be successful at it.
Buying 11/11mythic once doesn't mean shit. Except that you are a moron, I suppose. Everyone who is actually out there winning will know you bought it immediately.

[Lochton]

Blizzard makes a lot of money from pay2win.

They sell tokens for real money you can turn into ingame currency. And using that ingame currency you may buy mythic raid gear by hiring guilds carrying you.

You use real money to buy ingame gear and progress.

Thats called pay 2 win.

They sell tokens for real money, that you can sell to a player for gold. It isn't them giving you the gold, it is another player - they just made this thing safe, it could be done long time before the token.

Again, your REAL money buys you a gametime token, your GAMETIME TOKEN is sold to ANOTHER PLAYER, this other player pays with HIS/HER GOLD - Blizzard didn't do much else than making a gametime card more expensive so players can safely and legally sell gametime to each other.

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It is for real currency, if you convert real money into gold by buying tokens.

No, it isn't. If you pay a boost with gold, it is with gold. If you got this gold by the help of a token, that means you're buying the boost with another player's gold.

[Lochton]

It'd be nice if they sold mythic raid and mythic+ dungeon boosts directly through the store rather than us simply buying the gold from said store to trade in exchange those services via a third party of potentially dubious trust.

But, you aren't getting the gold from the store. Now, if Blizzard sold the boosts through the store, it would be Pay2Win.

[sil3ntearth]

At least in WoW, I've always viewed winning as being able to complete the highest tier of raiding on what is now mythic, was heroic, and before that just being able to complete 40 man raids. If you're into PvP, the top tier of arena.

It seems to me that some people's definition of winning is the gear that they have on, which I've always found as nothing more than the ability to actually participate in the most difficult tiers of the game. My experience is that the people that buy gear wont ever actually be able to participate in any mythic tier raiding with any progression guild. All they've gained is the bragging rights and the ability to get kicked from higher end raids when everyone finds out they're garbage. I suppose they'd also be more effective at farming transmogs as well.

The mobile games I've played that are considered p2w are considered that because there is literally nothing else to do once you hit the max level and have the best gear. Just obtaining max gear/level in and of itself is the end of the game. I don't think WoW will ever get to that point.

Personally, when I've bought tokens it's to save me time from having to grind, but I have never done it with the illusion that I would be able to do the max content because I know from experience it takes a hell of a lot more than the best gear or achievement. It takes skill, it takes a lot of time, and it takes a ton of dedication. That's why I've been content watching my friends do that content while I sit in the background and enjoy what I can.

[Ryneon]

Are we pretending that mythic boosting isn't a thing or something? You can effectively have anything in the game by paying with your wallet. People are always looking to sell shiny things

Sounds like you're mad because you can't complete Mythic+ dungeons for your own gear...

Have you tried "Getting Good" ?

[Lochton]

Yes, and i told you it doesnt matter how many steps you take.

At the end you invest hundreds of euro into getting carried. Thats the final result.

I know, but doesn't make it Pay2Win by definition of the game but by proxy of players. You are making this sound like it was new, people have sold gametime codes in WoW for over a decade but suddenly when Blizzard gives you the function to sell gametime with a 0% scam risk, it is suddenly Pay2Win?

[tikcol]

Unfortunately, the things you buy with gold doesn't win you much. WoW is all about regularly improving gradually and competing with your immediate peers (friends) and those you may have never interacted with (the community.)
If you have some one else do this for you, you lose.

So really, its pay2notplay.

Now if you could buy free legendaries and titanforges, then I MIGHT see your point. But you still need to actually be able to play the game to be able to be successful at it.
Buying 11/11mythic once doesn't mean shit. Except that you are a moron, I suppose. Everyone who is actually out there winning will know you bought it immediately.

Why would people waste so much money? They're just morons wasting their money?

No. They're probably morons wasting their money because they feel like they're winning. And they eventually will, considering the disparity ilevel brings in terms of stats nowadays.

Consider world pvp

[druenos]

Unfair advantage, can’t fully tell if a player is good or not e.g. he gets a boost on the last boss and posts curve giving the illusion that he is experienced, it gives the harder content less value, as even newbies can buy themselves into it. Yes, it does affect me, as I follow the rule and I want everyone to do the same, so that the game is fairly competitive on all aspects.

Well you say follow the rules but it's very much allowed by the rules to buy boosts with in game gold, I do it all the time. I cba with wiping on a boss 200 times, to me this is not fun and i play this game for fun, I have much more fun making gold and I use that to buy boosts. I do most content once but never use boosts to get into a regular raid team, what's the point, on the first boss the rest of the team wouls realize im crap at it lol, and I don't have any real interst in doing a raid more than once anyway.

[Lochton]

You pay the gold with real money. The gold you paid is used to get carried. Ergo, you buy the carry with real time money, just with one additional step.

You don't pay the gold with real money.

You buy a gametime token.
You trade the gametime token for gold from another player.
You get gold.

Pay2Win by definition of the game would be that you give your money to the company, and you get gold from them generated.

[Deleted]

p2w means "pay to win"

OP didn't know that, many people in here do not seem to know it either.

getting boosted won't win you anything - just saying.

[agentsi]

I honestly do not feel WoW is in anyway Pay2Win. I've never seen it, not even once. Buying a carry for loot isn't Pay2Win, it's a waste of money that doesn't garner you anything. When I run my Heroic Pugs, I do not invite anyone if they link AOTC, I go to raider.io and look myself to see what they've done. If I see 1/11, and their only kill is Argus, pretty easy to avoid that person. If PvP wasn't stat templates them maybe I could see your point, but literally, nothing a person buying a run does affects you in anyway. Unless you get into a bad pug, where the leader is 910, and only started the group to get carried. At that point, you just have to start over.