Is this guild's leadership bad, or am I wrong in this?

[Deleted]

Mount should be rolled for equally by all (except trials)
Thing is some people will for sure leave after a while after Argus kill and most likely if guild is not activly recruiting to fill those spots, some people frmo the original raiding team will not get mount. It's just the way the cookie crumbles.. every tier.. every time

[Magnagarde]

You know he can't just /roll and the game forcibly gives it to him right? The loot master will prob just auto give it to the GM, since there's nobody that could roll against him with their rules.

Was joking around the need option.

[Tarx]

Leave the guild and tell to others to leave the guild too .

[digichi]

Threat of a kick is too much, sounds like douchebags taking advantage of their position. If you feel comfortable enough to protest and feel they will consider your word, do so (with anyone else miffed by this.)

Take all your close friends and leave if u want, or if you're apathetic because you want mythic argus loot anyway then stay... it's hard to know the dynamic without being part of the situation- but remember, there are plenty of good guilds in the sea...

[Deleted]

First of all I think its ridic to say people are "forced to stay subbed". I think its common that after 1-3 end boss kills, a few people leave or go into hiatus until next expansion.

On the topic of mount distribution, from a guy in management position PoV:
There is no doubt that I (as a RL of similar progressed guild) have spent 3-4 times as much time on raiding and preparation than some of ours raiders. So time / effort wise there is a large difference. The difficult decision is to determine if a mount or vanity items is the reward, or the journey / making it work is the reward. That comes down to your officer core.

[Temp name]

If they'd just stayed quiet there wouldn't have been any problems. That's just stupid of them. I'd talk with the other raiders and consider leaving personally

[Raziella]

The problem is that you knew all of this ahead of time. You knew you would be in the last group to get the chance to /roll at it. Minimum of 4 weeks is not even covering all of the officers. If you knew the loot rules, said you were fine with it in the OP but now balk then the problem is with you. There was always a chance that people would stop raiding before you got the mount.

But now you balk because the word forced was used in conjunction with only 4 weeks. Be realistic. If you are worried about not getting it then you always were even if you won't admit it. If you've only been with the guild for 5 or 6 weeks you aren't that big of an asset otherwise you would be a higher rank. They can't steal the mount.

If it bothers you then leave the guild and find a new one. You decided to stay with this guild even when you knew their mount distribution method. No one to blame but yourself.

He was okay with the method before they explicitly stated they were only concerned about officers getting the mount; they would have been smart to either say nothing, or to make the rules that you had to stay until everyone had the mount who wanted it.
But instead they made it clear they only care about themselves.

Also, to the bolded, that is absolutely not correct for every single guild. Probably not the majority of them, even.
"Officers" are often just friends of the GM, and I've seen plenty of cases where they are less integral to the guild than newer members, or members who never get "promoted."
I'd suspect OP's guild falls into that category with the way they're handling this, which rather feels like telling everyone up front they're just the GM and his buddies' private workforce.

[Sencha]

Who cares, it's just another mount. Make a drama about it, seriously? How old are you?

[TofuBandita]

If you can't give your guild master, raid leader and officers, the benefit of the doubt for four+ weeks, or acknowledge that a mount is a great way to reward them for their efforts, than simply find another guild. It's a thankless, time-consuming job, to ensure a guild that raids mythic is able to do so each week. I personally wouldn't have an issue with it - unless they turn out to be douchebags after they all get their mounts, and don't put in further effort to help other raiders get the mount.

Having said that, the guilds I've been in decided who obtained the mounts by having core raiders (including gm/rl/officers who are core) roll need.

[Emerald Archer]

acknowledge that a mount is a great way to reward them for their efforts, than simply find another guild. It's a thankless, time-consuming job, to ensure a guild that raids mythic is able to do so each week.

That's a lot of assumptions, that a lot of officers don't live up to. RL sure, and maybe 1 other in officer team. But most of the time the rest aren't doing anything. They're just officers because they're mates with the GM, they're popular in the guild, they've been around ages, or my personal favourite, "Because they're a tank"

Most people see this in guilds, if officers are putting in the effort, sure by all means give them an advantage. I don't think anyone outside of the RL should get it instantly, I think instead they should have a roll bonus, to increase their chances over other players. But again that gets questionable if they're not an officer for legitimate reasons.

[Soluna]

Well, I am all up for our leading crew to get their mounts first. I don't doubt that they will play a big role in us killing Argus, and they deserve to be rewarded. What I didn't like, which some posters seem to not understand, is that they only cared enough to threaten people about staying a minimum of 4 raid weeks, so that they could all get the mount. It just feels like they didn't really care about the rest.

If they had said right after something like 'Any runs after that, if we keep going, whoever GETS the mount, has to stay subbed and help the rest who want it, get it', I wouldn't be complaining. But all they did was announce their intentions, and move to an officer channel after saying goodnight.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

We did the same thing back in MoP with the Garrosh mounts. Officers got to roll for it first, then the "core raiders", members and trials, in that order. I see nothing wrong with this (having one rank for "core raiders" and one for "only" regular members was retarded, but that's not the point).

Now, what is it you are reacting negatively to here? The fact that they want to continue farm after progress is done, or the fact that they are only requiring ppl to stay until the leadership have gotten their mounts.

From my point of view, it's only natural to continue farming the raid until every single raider have gotten their mount, and if ppl want to take a break during said period, the chance of them getting replaced would increase significantly (assuming it was a prolonged break, not just being gone for a few resets).

If you ask me, the issue here is that they don't seem to care about getting the rest of the guild their mounts, not that they are forcing ppl to raid after progress is done. The first is extremely selfish, the second is a natural part of any raiding guild.

[Leenaleena]

Sounds fishy. As others have pointed out, the guild leadership should have just stayed silent on the issue and continued as usual.

I've only ever witnessed two mythic mount distributions (as in enough IDs that roughly every member could get their mount before new content hit). They both gave the first mount to the GM/RL (which were the same person, so no issue). First guild then rolled the mount between the officers, then between the rest of the raiders, with 'newer' raiders not being allowed to roll for about 2-3 weeks iirc. Second guild simply had a list of when people joined the guild (easy to check with wowprogress) and rewarded the mount accordingly. I thought the second system was way better, since you had a pretty good estimate when you'd get the mount and the rigid list system made people feel a little more inclined to stay on even after getting theirs (a sense of duty).

[Soluna]

We did the same thing back in MoP with the Garrosh mounts. Officers got to roll for it first, then the rest of the raiders. I see nothing wrong with this.

Now, what is it you are reacting negatively to here? The fact that they want to continue farm after progress is done, or the fact that they are only requiring ppl to stay until the leadership have gotten their mounts.

From my point of view, it's only natural to continue farming the raid until every single core raider have gotten their mount, and if ppl want to take a break during said period, the chance of them getting replaced would increase significantly (assuming it was a prolonged break, not just being gone for a few resets). If you ask me, the issue here is that they seem to not care about getting the rest of the guild their mounts, not that they are forcing ppl to raid after progress is done.

What bothers me is that they don't seem to care about what will happen beyond these 4 getting the mount.

Also, I don't think it's fair if you will only get the mount until Core Raiders only, and stop right there. It's as if you basically ask your other raiders (let's say they've stayed raiders for that long), to come and raid with you for months and months the same content, so that the leadership/core team can get their shiny mounts. No sir, if the raiders have helped you kill Argus 15 times on Mythic, they all deserve the mount as much as you.

Cause let's face it, at this point you don't devise a 'tactic' as a raid leader, you just find a decent video of a kill, and have everyone watch it and follow it to its letter. This is what's happening for my guild so far, and it's not like it's complicated. Callouts are also usually something that all raid members work together with. Like for our Aggramar kill, even though I am just raider rank, I did all the callouts for the ember buff grip to kill Aggramar, since I was faster than all others by 2-3 seconds.

Recruiting? Most raiders come to you in waves (happening with our guild too, and decent ones), if you have okay progress. So it's not like it's tough to ask a few questions and get people in. Like sure, they did all this, instead of me, who had to make some callouts and dps/do mechanics, but it's not like I deserve the mount any less than the core raiders, and even some of the officers who usually do nothing. As I said, I'd love to give the mount without roll to the leadership, as they've done the most, but other than that, it should all be fair rolling in my opinion.

With all of that in mind, what if next expansion comes, and your class is broken, and the leadership decides to bench you cause there are too many of that class in core raiders? Then well, gj, you are fucked cause you wasted 6 months of your life getting them pretty mounts and then they fucked you over.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

First of all I think its ridic to say people are "forced to stay subbed". I think its common that after 1-3 end boss kills, a few people leave or go into hiatus until next expansion.

What? Most raiding guilds will keep on raiding through the entire expansion, with maybe a tiny tiny (couple of resets) right before the pre-patch leading up to the new expansion.

Not to mention the fact that from the point of the leadership, doing any prolonged breaks from raiding is guild suicide. Even if everybody are motivated, and agrees to come back ready after the break, you always lose multiple core players.

Also, anybody who wants to stop raiding after 3 reclears, obviously have no interest in the mount anyway, so I don't see how this topic would concern them.

[Inukashi]

I left guilds for less.

or to be exact. This would have been the point were I would have left the guild:

: Each rank would get to roll for it. So initially, the GM would get it, then the Raid leader, following that, the 4 officers would roll till they all get the mount

I was guild leader. I was officer. I was lootmaster for some time in some guilds. Some did server first kills and some were casual but never did I have the Idea that I or anyone else at my rank would have a higher value than a normal raider.
What I quoted clearly states, that this guild isn't for me.

[Queen of Hamsters]

If enough raiders refuse and leave, then they won't get the mount with their current dumbass rules. You can bet your life that once the 4 weeks are up, the attendancy will drop to 0 from those that got their mount.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

What bothers me is that they don't seem to care about what will happen beyond these 4 getting the mount.

Also, I don't think it's fair if you will only get the mount until Core Raiders only, and stop right there. It's as if you basically ask your other raiders (let's say they've stayed raiders for that long), to come and raid with you for months and months the same content, so that the leadership/core team can get their shiny mounts. No sir, if the raiders have helped you kill Argus 15 times on Mythic, they all deserve the mount as much as you.

Cause let's face it, at this point you don't devise a 'tactic' as a raid leader, you just find a decent video of a kill, and have everyone watch it and follow it to its letter. This is what's happening for my guild so far, and it's not like it's complicated. Callouts are also usually something that all raid members work together with. Like for our Aggramar kill, even though I am just raider rank, I did all the callouts for the ember buff grip to kill Aggramar, since I was faster than all others by 2-3 seconds.

Recruiting? Most raiders come to you in waves (happening with our guild too, and decent ones), if you have okay progress. So it's not like it's tough to ask a few questions and get people in. Like sure, they did all this, instead of me, who had to make some callouts and dps/do mechanics, but it's not like I deserve the mount any less than the core raiders, and even some of the officers who usually do nothing. As I said, I'd love to give the mount without roll to the leadership, as they've done the most, but other than that, it should all be fair rolling in my opinion.

With all of that in mind, what if next expansion comes, and your class is broken, and the leadership decides to bench you cause there are too many of that class in core raiders? Then well, gj, you are fucked cause you wasted 6 months of your life getting them pretty mounts and then they fucked you over.

Well, are they planning to stop raiding after the officers have gotten their mounts, or are they going to continue clearing each reset? Having two separate ranks for "core raiders" and "normal raiders" is batshit retarded, but that's not the point of this thread.

I see nothing wrong with giving Officers prio on vanity items like the mount from end-bosses. If you are doing more raid leading than the actual officers, that's also an obvious issue, but in any normal situation, where let's be honest, the Officer crew do A LOT more work than any of the regular raiders to keep the guild going, I don't see any issue with it.

As for your last point, that's more serious. If you are getting benched because of your class in any guild that hasn't killed Argus yet at this point, that's a way bigger danger sign than the assignment of loot. Class stacking matters for the first 20 kills in the world. In any guilds lower than that, just play properly, and you will have a spot. If the leadership wants to bring in some shitter playing the FotM spec, over a good player on his currently "underpowered" spec, just leave at once.

[impending doom]

The "forced" 4 weeks doesn't really sound a good way for them to handle it. Although if someone leaves right after getting their achievement/mount it wouldn't show good attitude either. I didn't see anyone suggesting it yet but I'd try to talk about it with someone in the guild, a guild should be able to have at least some level of discussion about things.

Although I never cared about mounts that much, but maybe Blizzard should make all rare rewards like this PL only, would save a lot of drama.

[valky94]

lol thats bullshit, we always did the mounts just by rolling, everyone get the same chances not depending on rank (excluding trials, we didnt want them to fuck off with a mount)