Blizzard needs to stop treating the Alliance as a collective "hive-mind"

[rogueMatthias]

They just fight "for the Alliance" (which is a shite rallying cry).

We could have a new one..

Alliance: DEATH TO THE HORDE!
Anduin: NO NO Not death to the... DAMMIT GUYS!!

To me, it's not about "Horde vs. Alliance". What we ALL want is to have Lore that's compelling, interesting, and suspenseful. I can't imagine Blizzard ever doing anything serious, but even just painting the ILLUSION that massive, meaningful changes could happen within both factions would be great (especially if they were willing to do something like a "temporary event" where Tauren players were Neutral to Stormwind NPC's and could freely walk around and interact with players (besides group-content or trading, I suppose).

This 100%

[Justpassing]

Well it's the easiest way to write it, so.

[Mehrunes]

But the Alliance's unity is result of years of working together and small conflicts that were solved or became so minor that was forgotten.

And, The Alliance is not the Horde, they will not start internal conflicts over nothing and by the very nature of the Allliance characters, they will not do anything that will make the other leaders disagree,distrust or harm one another.

Because unity to the point of human homogenization is a natural outcome of inter-racial cooperation that goes for less than three decades even for the oldest members. Especially when some of the parties to said cooperation predate humans as a race by thousands of years. Never mind that the cooperation was so swell that at one point 1/3rd of the founding members left and another one was dismantled for betraying the Alliance.

Also, no one said the internal conflicts have to be over nothing. And pointing out that the nature of Alliance characters is that they will not do anything that would make the other leaders even disagree is not defense of the flaw that's criticized here, it's only pointing the exact flaw again.

Not exactly the same, but something like that could be done with Saurfang's capture if you ask me.

I mean instead of Anduin bringing him cookies and milk into the dungeon and babbling about how cool and honorable Saurfang is, they could make one of other leaders pissed at Anduin that he's being too nice to someone who probably killed handful of Alliance soldiers just in Battle for Undercity alone. It's more ridiculous to me that everyone in Alliance is okay with keeping Saurfang alive tbh.

Or they could even pull a Karstark when he killed Lannister hostages taken by Stark.

There already is some potential with Alleria and the Void Elves being the first race within the Alliance that don't see eye to eye on almost anything. They could be the Alliance equivalent of the Forsaken.

I could also see something between Genn and Anduin happening at some point. Genn and the Worgen want Sylvanas dead after what she did to their home.

Also, if the Kul Tirans join the Alliance and Jaina is their leader I could also see Jaina doing some shady shit.

Moira could be a controversial leader as well with the Dark Iron Dwarves.

Alleria and potential for inter-faction conflict? You mean the same Alleria that before going through the Dark Portal was only using the Alliance either as an instrument of securing her homeland or an instrument of her vengeance against Orcs, yet the moment she returned after a thousand years (from her perspective) instantly became the mouthpiece of a human king she never met before? And Moira, the only Dwarf leader that answered Varian's call in 5.3? As for Genn, while he does hate the Horde a lot, he's also the Alliance leader that orbits Anduin even more than Velen.

[Darktbs]

Not necesarily. Night Elves and Humans only been allies since Warcraft 3 so there could easily still be a lot of diffences and disputes there.

As for Gilneas, Greymane literally wanted nothing to do with the Alliance for years because he didn't want to spend Gilneas money keeping Orcs alive in camps, as he believe they should have all just been put to the death. Needless to say, that kind of attitude doesn't really fit with Alliance overall themes either.

The Night elfs and Humans difference that could sparkle difference are always put apart because 'Orcs'

And the Gilneas bit was adressed when the Worgen joined(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxkaRH1UuNI) but any possible chance of the abandon of Gilneas after the 2nd War will be nothing when there is the Horde attacking them.

I believe people misunderstand the Alliance Unity with Homogenization.

[Cucultlan]

now i remember something as i was playing SC2
blizz should give the alliance the same treatment as they did to the protos in legacy of the void that made them interesting and with internal conflicts while still being "lawful goods" i guess

thats going to be far more enjoyable as they are right now

[Oneirophobia]

If the Night Elves don't raise a ruckus after losing their tree then the Alliance will never see inner conflict. Now is the most perfect time we've had for that sort of story in ages, if this doesn't do it nothing will.

[Moonstream]

If the Night Elves don't raise a ruckus after losing their tree then the Alliance will never see inner conflict. Now is the most perfect time we've had for that sort of story in ages, if this doesn't do it nothing will.

Agreed, the tree burning down would be the perfect chance to get some division in the Alliance. Give the nelfs more of their original storyline of being more feral, living in the woods, etc. This would be the perfect chance to follow up with "Tyrande acting irrational" storyline, by possibly starting to distance the nelfs from the Alliance or at least Stormwind for failing to help protect them.

The rest of the leaders could also start to see this and maybe start re-evaluating their ties as well. (Think current EU and NATO thoughts with Trump saying he may not come to their aide) The dwarves and gnomes anyway, since the Worgen and Draenei are in Manduins pocket.

I won't hold my breath on the Velfs being the source of division, since Aleria appears to be the Queen Bee of that hive mind as well, and she's ready (after apparently ignoring her thousand years of experience plus her own old age) to serve the boy king hand and foot.

[Deleted]

if there is conflict whitin the alliance, will make then look as "bad guys" or even "villain" and marjory of alliance players will kill themselves if blizzrad taint their perfect, pure and white faction with something grey

in their heads the alliance is all about being good, knights of justice, correct and they are ok with every other in a fantastic lv., conflict is for the evil and barbaric horde.

Who its a shame, BfA could be a perfect expansion to swamp roles, but no, they will go with horde bad with unnecessary internal conflicts again, and th good alliance untied to face the evil horde who want to control the horde again

blame the players i guess?

I'd actually be pretty fine with it.

[Darktbs]

Because unity to the point of human homogenization is a natural outcome of inter-racial cooperation that goes for less than three decades even for the oldest members. Especially when some of the parties to said cooperation predate humans as a race by thousands of years. Never mind that the cooperation was so swell that at one point 1/3rd of the founding members left and another one was dismantled for betraying the Alliance.

Culture-wise, maybe , the few stories we have where we see the other's races cultures they still keep their beliefs, identies and so on.
Military wise, well duh, a military that has a functional and well estructured is ideal if not mandatory.This is even reflected somewhat in the Horde where Tauren,Trolls are squished together into the Orcs way of war.while you have Half of the Horde not doing it, thus leading to defeat.

Also, no one said the internal conflicts have to be over nothing. And pointing out that the nature of Alliance characters is that they will not do anything that would make the other leaders even disagree is not defense of the flaw that's criticized here, it's only pointing the exact flaw again.

So just create conflict for the sake of it?

If new Alied races leader offer different view points then maybe, otherwise, it would be Bad story telling to go agaisn't what the character are just to create conflict.

[Scathan]

That is ***EXACTLY*** what the Alliance needs!!!

Fact is, none of the Alliance leaders really have any personality or motivations of their own. They just fight "for the Alliance" (which is a shite rallying cry). What are their goals? There's so much potential, but it's like Blizzard refuses to put any legwork. Other than continually butchering Jaina (the writers have been so heavy-handed with her, I don't even think Christie Golden can salvage her).

Seeing the "Alliance" start to come apart at the seams could make for a much more intense, dramatic story, for both the Horde and the Alliance. I mean, to take things in an entirely different direction, imagine if the Tauren started having talks of peace, and speak about cutting ties with the Horde after what happens with Teldrassil (Tauren are the one race on the Horde I feel gets constantly overlooked).

To me, it's not about "Horde vs. Alliance". What we ALL want is to have Lore that's compelling, interesting, and suspenseful. I can't imagine Blizzard ever doing anything serious, but even just painting the ILLUSION that massive, meaningful changes could happen within both factions would be great (especially if they were willing to do something like a "temporary event" where Tauren players were Neutral to Stormwind NPC's and could freely walk around and interact with players (besides group-content or trading, I suppose).

No, that's awful, you don't get to just destroy horde leaders whenever you want because you want alliance story, how about one of your alliance heroes kills another one of your alliance heroes, and just leave the horde out of it?

[Kwento]

Here are two more scenarios, I think that they would have made Alliance way more interesting:

1) Some Gilneans start to adopt druidism and maybe even Elune as their religions. Genn, being an old stubborn Light worshipper, says “No” and forbids his people from following the foreign faiths. Gilneans are divided, some agree with Genn, others stick to night elves. Tension grows. Tyrande and Malfy against Greymane! Anduin cannot take sides. Nature worshipers and Church of the Light are taking their positions, preparing for worst, but trying to work together in these dark times.

2) Malfurion dies in Teldrassil’s burning. Alliance finally realizes that the Horde isn’t going to just play around. Tyrande with refugees walks into Stormwind and demands Anduin to step down as a High King. He is a kid with no experience and this is not a game-like situation. Genn and dwarves agree. Tyrande takes control over the Alliance’s armys and unlishes her rage on the remnants of the Horde. During the war it is suddenly becoming more and more clear that human troops show signs of dissatisfaction with their new High Queen. Velen/Anduin/Magni/Kadgar are trying to shove their peace loving asses into Alliance’s politics once again.

[bufferunderrun]

Here are two more scenarios, I think that they would have made Alliance way more interesting:

1) Some Gilneans start to adopt druidism and maybe even Elune as their religions. Genn, being an old stubborn Light worshipper, says “No” and forbids his people from following the foreign faiths. Gilneans are divided, some agree with Genn, others stick to night elves. Tension grows. Tyrande and Malfy against Greymane! Anduin cannot take sides. Nature worshipers and Church of the Light are taking their positions, preparing for worst, but trying to work together in these dark times.

2) Malfurion dies in Teldrassil’s burning. Alliance finally realizes that the Horde isn’t going to just play around. Tyrande with refugees walks into Stormwind and demands Anduin to step down as a High King. He is a kid with no experience and this is not a game-like situation. Genn and dwarves agree. Tyrande takes control over the Alliance’s armys and unlishes her rage on the remnants of the Horde. During the war it is suddenly becoming more and more clear that human troops show signs of dissatisfaction with their new High Queen. Velen/Anduin/Magni/Kadgar are trying to shove their peace loving asses into Alliance’s politics once again.

here is better scenario:

Malfurion after the teldrassil's burning go to stormwind asking Anduin to mobilize the troops and take down orgrimmar, genn intervene telling him lordaeron takes priority and malf beat him (it become reds to nelf but not attackable) , declare that the alliance only serve human interest and take away the bulk of the nelf army under the alliance to attack kalimdor (humpering lordaeron conquest and it being the main reason for alliance not being able to retake it).

Moira took the chance to reinforce the DI dwarf position and sign of dissatisfaction appear even among the gnomes (because the alliance never give them full support to retake gnomeregan).

Malfurion should take the nelf lead and show he is a better and more charismatic leader than Arduin
Dwarfs and Gnomes should differentiate themselves from human leadership
Humans will take the hit and become somewhat jealous of Malfurion power

Creating 3 camps inside the alliance Human, Nelfs and Dwarfs+Gnomes with draenei trying to mediate.

[Kwento]

here is better scenario:

Malfurion after the teldrassil's burning go to stormwind asking Anduin to mobilize the troops and take down orgrimmar, genn intervene telling him lordaeron takes priority and malf beat him (it become reds to nelf but not attackable) , declare that the alliance only serve human interest and take away the bulk of the nelf army under the alliance to attack kalimdor (humpering lordaeron conquest and it being the main reason for alliance not being able to retake it).

Moira took the chance to reinforce the DI dwarf position and sign of dissatisfaction appear even among the gnomes (because the alliance never give them full support to retake gnomeregan).

Malfurion should take the nelf lead and show he is a better and more charismatic leader than Arduin
Dwarfs and Gnomes should differentiate themselves from human leadership
Humans will take the hit and become somewhat jealous of Malfurion power

Creating 3 camps inside the alliance Human, Nelfs and Dwarfs+Gnomes with draenei trying to mediate.

Awesome! Now we can... Dream.

[Airlick]

Agreed, the tree burning down would be the perfect chance to get some division in the Alliance. Give the nelfs more of their original storyline of being more feral, living in the woods, etc. This would be the perfect chance to follow up with "Tyrande acting irrational" storyline, by possibly starting to distance the nelfs from the Alliance or at least Stormwind for failing to help protect them.

While I guess it would be fun if nelves showed some discontent over Anduin's act, there's exactly zero reason for them to be blaming humans for losing their tree. They should have enough forces to keep the Horde in check for a good while just on their own. And then the Horde should never ever have been able to just beat them and get to Teldrassil so easily in the first place. But that's just Blizzard finding new and creative ways of shitting on nelves.

[Deleted]

I completely agree. Why, RP wise, my Bronzebeard-loyalist paladin has to accept the introduction of the Dark Irons without batting an eyelash? Anduin isn't my King. The Alliance needs to be presented as what it really is, an Alliance of people, and not Old Horde v2. Heck, the Old Horde had more internal conflict than the current Alliance.

[Schattenlied]

Moira

Last time Moira tried to be edgy she nearly got herself killed, I think she's learned her lesson.

[Jastall]

My ideas for the stoy -

I think, Alliance should take Thalyssra prisoner. Anduin has her kept in the the nicest place they have as a guest / prisoner because you need to be humane to prisoners of war and treat them well. Maybe he can help her become an ally! All of the Alliance leaders agree with him.

Thalyssra is then murdered brutally and beheaded by Tyrande for betraying them after we helped secure her homeland. (It'd fit with the prophecy lol)

Anduin is like
And Genn is like

Nightelves were always savage and brutal. Now they're just hippys who lecture or sleep all the time.
With Tyrande going against Anduins orders that will encourage Genn to be even more relaxed about them.

Now you'd be in a position where Anduin is High King and trying to be honest and good. The other leaders are agreeing to his orders... but then totally ignoring them whenever they want, and causing complete chaos and attacking Horde at every opportunity.

The Alliance would be a complete mess with Anduin trying to protect the image of its respectability and sense of honour. It could make them much more interesting.

The problem is that I'm not sure the Alliance would think that's cool. A lot of their players want to be the white knights who win because they're the good guys. Night Elf fans will probably like that development, everyone else won't. Look at all the gloating that happens as soon as datamining or Chronicles might imply that Garrosh or Sylvanas do/used to do bad things. If the shoe is on the other foot they will call foul.

Also the Horde would probably be rather displeased at losing yet another character in a time where Sylvanas seems to be the only major figure they have left. Who's going to lead the Nightborne now, Silgryn?

The reality is that this ship has sailed. The Alliance is the Empire of Man now, with ancillary vassals showing up if their human overlords deign to acknowledge them, and looking at Kul Tiras so far Blizzard seems to like it. There are probably ways to de-homogenize the Alliance without just having Tyrande go full blown Garrosh, but it would require a deft touch which Blizzard absolutely doesn't have. Hell they made Genn into an absolute Alliance and Wrynn fanboy, even though beforehand his one defining characteristic was staunch isolationism and Gilneas first attitude.

But certainly, if the Night Elves don't at least question their place in the Alliance after it's made them a target time and time again, we will have confirmation that nothing ever will cause any sort of drama in the Alliance.

[Combatbutler]

Because unity to the point of human homogenization is a natural outcome of inter-racial cooperation that goes for less than three decades even for the oldest members. Especially when some of the parties to said cooperation predate humans as a race by thousands of years. Never mind that the cooperation was so swell that at one point 1/3rd of the founding members left and another one was dismantled for betraying the Alliance.

That would only be the draenei though, humans are pretty much older than most races in the Alliance. But only became prominent after the troll wars.

OT

We need the old Gilneans back, second only to Alterrac in terms of being scumbags. The night elves should blame the Alliance poor leadership for their burned home, the lightforged should be outright hostile towards void elves and Alleria etc.

[Mehrunes]

That would only be the draenei though, humans are pretty much older than most races in the Alliance. But only became prominent after the troll wars.

Potentially the Night Elves as well. Well, not by thousands of years, but still. Though even in their case the thousands of years part still applies in their case when you compare it to anything resembling civilization on the part of the humans. By the time humans stopped shitting in the woods and formed their first state the Night Elven empire already managed to collapse.

[Combatbutler]

Potentially the Night Elves as well. Well, not by thousands of years, but still. Though even in their case the thousands of years part still applies in their case when you compare it to anything resembling civilization on the part of the humans. By the time humans stopped shitting in the woods and formed their first state the Night Elven empire already managed to collapse.

If we consider the first time humans were born, they are definitely older than elves, they were born when the trolls were beginning to rise.