[SPOILERS]: Saurfang Stockades Dialogue

[mickybrighteyes]

Saurfang did something very similar in MoP and it really is hard arguing that Sylvanas has more honor than the Alliance to be honest. One of her defining character traits is that she basically has none and is operating on cold pragmatism.

So like Baine he might chose a more honorable enemy to help him out.

this idea basically takes any intelligent idea of planning and chucks it out the window. OR then lead into other story elements that have been left in the fog of forgetfulness (like Night Elf foreign relations... they were always shoot first and shoot the corpse after until the alliance needed another race in the ranks)

edit:

also Saurfang's contributions during MoP was clearing a corridor in SoO.... that is all.He hasn't had any real lore show point in game between wrath and legion.

[valax]

i love the kultiras hate because this gives conflict to the alliance and jaina, giving them opportunities to shine.
i am a huge fan of jaina,and that song is awesome, i can hear me singing.

about saurfang.. it's actually sad that they make this with the horde AGAIN.
why they have to do this? are they really gonna make saurfang a traitor?...
another mop 2.0?.. boring....

They want to make him a Thrall 2.0 .... or even worse *shivers* have a Thrall comeback

[Dagoth Ur]

Please lord end this atrocity of a female character and release this shackled fanbase from her rotting grip. I am so damn tired of Sylvanas controversy every new expansion.

Sylvanas is a freaking literature masterpiece compared to what they're doing with certain characters.

[FelPlague]

Nope he was one of them. He has PTSD because of it.

As i reemmber he was there but he did not do the killing, and punished those who killed the children.
i do know he had ptsd because of it.

[Doffen]

I was hovering over the lore-forums and saw this and tought this must be the old topic about it since it was 18 pages already, but WOW, interesting.

A bit surprising that Saurfang is going all out. So Mag'har Orcs confirmed as alliance race?

[Combatbutler]

also Saurfang's contributions during MoP was clearing a corridor in SoO.... that is all.He hasn't had any real lore show point in game between wrath and legion.

He condemned Garrosh as a traitor to the horde ideals and joined the rebellion to dispose of him, meaning he was more than willing to slaughter the orcs siding with him. If this text stays he already considers Sylvanas to be pretty much the same as garrosh and as such it is no far stretch that he would fight those who side with her, which at the moment is the entire horde.

[Whatever Dude]

have a Thrall comeback

That's about the only reasonable thing that can happen if Horde players are actually genuine about not wanting to be the villains anymore.

[Tarba]

So, Saurfang joins the list of characters we need to get rid off.
With Thrall, Baine, Malfurion, Velen and Anduin.

Sylvanas, Gallywix, Genn, war3 Tyrande, Moira. Those are characters with true story potential.

I miss Cataclysm Garrosh, and Nazgrim... It's hard to find orcs these days.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Anduin and Velen are fine characters. Go'el needs to die and Thrall needs to be resurrected after dying at the end of WotLK.

[Dudas]

As i reemmber he was there but he did not do the killing, and punished those who killed the children.
i do know he had ptsd because of it.

Dialogue with Garrosh in Warsong Hold https://wow.gamepedia.com/Varok_Saurfang

High Overlord Saurfang says: I drank of the same blood your father did, Garrosh. Mannoroth's cursed venom pumped through my veins as well. I drove my weapons into the bodies and minds of my enemies. And while Grom died a glorious death - freeing us all from the blood curse - he could not wipe away the terrible memory of our past. His act could not erase the horrors we committed.
High Overlord Saurfang says: The winter after the curse was lifted, hundreds of veteran orcs like me were lost to despair. Our minds were finally free, yes... Free to relive all of the unthinkable acts that we had performed under the Legion's influence.
High Overlord Saurfang nods.
High Overlord Saurfang says: I think it was the sounds of the draenei children that unnerved most of them... You never forget... Have you ever been to Jaggedswine Farm? When the swine are of age for the slaughter... It's that sound. The sound of the swine being killed... It resonates the loudest. Those are hard times for us older veterans.

[mickybrighteyes]

He condemned Garrosh as a traitor to the horde ideals and joined the rebellion to dispose of him, meaning he was more than willing to slaughter the orcs siding with him. If this text stays he already considers Sylvanas to be pretty much the same as garrosh and as such it is no far stretch that he would fight those who side with her, which at the moment is the entire horde.

again.. I'm saying given teh current story.... such a jump makes abuot as much sense as the night elves turning from blood thirsty amazons, that kill evrything on site, into tree hugging hippies.

One highschool-esque lunch table side conversation and a series of non-development on a character. This girzzled war veteran seems to have lost his edge of late if he can be pushed to such extremes over what little has been seen. Maybe Saurfang has decided that the only thing that CAN take him out is the horde and he's gunning for the next thing he thinks will kill him. And then he gets raised as another Deathbringer.

[Combatbutler]

again.. I'm saying given teh current story.... such a jump makes abuot as much sense as the night elves turning from blood thirsty amazons, that kill evrything on site, into tree hugging hippies.

One highschool-esque lunch table side conversation and a series of non-development on a character. This girzzled war veteran seems to have lost his edge of late if he can be pushed to such extremes over what little has been seen. Maybe Saurfang has decided that the only thing that CAN take him out is the horde and he's gunning for the next thing he thinks will kill him. And then he gets raised as another Deathbringer.

And I am saying he already did it before, him acting this way isn't character breaking.

[Tarba]

Anduin and Velen are fine characters. Go'el needs to die and Thrall needs to be resurrected after dying at the end of WotLK.

Nope. Same shitty soporific hypocrit character of peace and rainbow. They act like they are nice guys (and people believe it) while we are butchering each others following their orders. But nooooo, in the lore they are still nice guys who want peace. Like Jaina was before Dalaran.
"Hey Alliance, go invades Kalimdor my doors are open to launch an attack!! -Horde retaliate - Hoooo noooooo why me?? I did nothing wrong, I was so niiiiiiiice all along!"

[FelPlague]

Dialogue with Garrosh in Warsong Hold https://wow.gamepedia.com/Varok_Saurfang

High Overlord Saurfang says: I drank of the same blood your father did, Garrosh. Mannoroth's cursed venom pumped through my veins as well. I drove my weapons into the bodies and minds of my enemies. And while Grom died a glorious death - freeing us all from the blood curse - he could not wipe away the terrible memory of our past. His act could not erase the horrors we committed.
High Overlord Saurfang says: The winter after the curse was lifted, hundreds of veteran orcs like me were lost to despair. Our minds were finally free, yes... Free to relive all of the unthinkable acts that we had performed under the Legion's influence.
High Overlord Saurfang nods.
High Overlord Saurfang says: I think it was the sounds of the draenei children that unnerved most of them... You never forget... Have you ever been to Jaggedswine Farm? When the swine are of age for the slaughter... It's that sound. The sound of the swine being killed... It resonates the loudest. Those are hard times for us older veterans.

and where does he say he did the killing? Im looking for where it is from but i think it was in WoD where it mentioned him killing an orc who had just killed a draenei child.
it was telmor if i reemmber...
was durotan not ogrim got it.

[mickybrighteyes]

And I am saying he already did it before, him acting this way isn't character breaking.

it is because before it was at a point where things were well beyond reason. Here it's only reachign that point because this previously reasonable character now longer confronts his foes and instead talks under the table and apparently plots now.

[Lupinemancer]

Horde infighting again.

Literally MoP 2.0. getting veeeeery close to skipping it entirely.

Well the Horde's never been about kindness and honor, all they cared about was bloodshed, killed and conquest.

[Eazy]

I can see Saurfang being alliance spy, but not being officialy in Alliance army.

i guess it came true.

[Dudas]

and where does he say he did the killing? Im looking for where it is from but i think it was in WoD where it mentioned him killing an orc who had just killed a draenei child.
it was telmor if i reemmber...

"Free to relive all of the unthinkable acts that WE had performed under the Legion's influence." <- even though it's not explicit he admits he has been part of the atrocities along others. It's not like he can say things like "YES I KILLED CHILDREN sry"
"hundreds of veteran orcs like ME were lost to despair" <- Doubt he was lost to despair because they conquer and fight the Draenei resistance. He could feel sorry or regret but not despair because he fought and killed armored draenei.
"You never forget..." <- he speaks as if he has them and knows nothing will make him forget them.

[Combatbutler]

it is because before it was at a point where things were well beyond reason. Here it's only reachign that point because this previously reasonable character now longer confronts his foes and instead talks under the table and apparently plots now.

Saurfang never challenged Garrosh to a mak'gora either he just went to the rebels to help overthrow him.

And in terms of confrontation potential, Garrosh never sacked a capital city of the Alliance, did not tell him that honor doesn't matter at all and was using soldiers in a manner that would might help win the battle but was very dismissive of their lives.If Sylvanas did indeed sack Darnassus at the beginning of Legion she has already eclipsed Garrosh.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Again, people should wait to see if the dialogue changes.