[SPOILERS]: Saurfang Stockades Dialogue

[Arrashi]

Speculation time: Anduin planted some weird parasite in saurfangs ass that makes him behave like this. His boss fight will be all about us making him pull goatse and remove the parasite.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Then please, explain why he leaving the faction that not only goes agaisn't honor but whoose Warchief told outright that he didn't deserve to stand among the Horde, its out of character.

He didn't even joined the Alliance and started killing Hordies, he just said he won't fight for "Her Horde"

Because the Horde is his entire life, it's all he lives for. For him to simply decide to leave, even if he doesn't fight the Horde is a betrayal of his character. He could of come back and refused to fight,still leading his people, his race. Instead he's grown to love his cage.

[Dudas]

An character that is all about honor leaves the faction who is currently forsaking(heh) honor. Seems right to me.

So you are the honorable leader of the race that told you to represent them. You have a strategy and moral debate with your Warchief. Survival vs honor. You disagree. You get captured. Horde champions save you. Instead of going back home and withdraw support of the orcs that will follow you regardless of the fact that you have not a single tactic or basic military strategy training in that huge head of yours filled with suicidal thoughts and honor, instead of going and go full Mak'gora on Sylvanas since you consider yourself the honorable beacon of the Horde, you stay back in Stormwind to share emojis and selfies and have a picnic in the throne room with the King while praising the Holy light.

I honestly hope she will order all the fucking orcs in the next battle Lok'tar Ogar and make them all die for nothing. I think even she is done trying to explain that suicide charges don't win wars. Then we can move on to the thread "Sylvanas ruined Horde! She ordered suicidal orcs that can only charge to charge and suicide since that's the only thing they can do. But she is bad for giving them what they want!"

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Speculation time: Anduin planted some weird parasite in saurfangs ass that makes him behave like this. His boss fight will be all about us making him pull goatse and remove the parasite.

Anduin is Mal'Ganis and mind controls Saurfang. Mathias Shaw can't see it coming after he was controlled by one also! Jaina passed on the dreadlord torch! Oh these cunning dreadlords are OP! Blizz nerf the Legion made me do it!

[etheldald]

I honestly hope she will order all the fucking orcs in the next battle Lok'tar Ogar and make them all die for nothing. I think even she is done trying to explain that suicide charges don't win wars. Then we can move on to the thread "Sylvanas ruined Horde! She ordered suicidal orcs that can only charge to charge and suicide since that's the only thing they can do. But she is bad for giving them what they want!"

if they do that, then there is no way that sylvanas survives this xpac.
in my opinion they make saurfang abandon the horde just to not make sylvanas another garroshs.
nazgrim was honorable and loyal, he chose loyalty and he ended dead for it.
if saurfang choose loyalty then he would go back to the horde that he hate, and if he chalenges sylvanas to a makgora then one would die and that would be saurfang because sylvanas is a fan-favorite. this is just a no win situation for saurfang.

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I dunno, losing a child is probably worse than losing anything else I reckon, suppose it depends on the person

she lose arthas, her love interest. lordaeron,her father, kultiras,antonidas,uther rhonin, her apprentice,every person on theramore, almost everyone in lordaeron where she has been all her life and she is hated by her mother and her kingdom. yeah i think that jaina as lose more than genn.

[Usagi Senshi]

Speculation time: Anduin planted some weird parasite in saurfangs ass that makes him behave like this. His boss fight will be all about us making him pull goatse and remove the parasite.

Now THAT is an asspull if I ever saw one!

[Deleted]

I'd argue that Jaina has lost more than Genn, because at the end of the day Genn is still loved by his people, Jaina isn't.

I would say that Jaina is by far more to blame for most of her losses than Genn.

I mean, Jaina und Uther left Arthas alone in a situation that was ugly and bad, but had to be dealed with the way Arthas did it. If we look at how fast the people in Stratholme turned undead after Arthas reached it, its stupid to assume that putting the city under quarantine would have helped anything. Before Priests and Mages would have been there to examine the plague, the city probably would have turned fully undead and a hugh army would have assaulted the Alliance Forces there.

She actually betrayed her father and enabled Rexxar to kill him and many of her fellow countrymen for Thralls vague promises of peace and a reformed Horde that didn't came true. After all, what has Thrall created but a Horde that was as ready to follow a man like Garrosh as their predecessors where to follow Blackhand. Thrall and Jaina did basically nothing to creat lasting peace between the faction outside of speaking up some idealistic shit.

What has she done afterwards? Nothing but half-assed shit. She did nothing to keep Theramore out of the war, she did nothing to at least try to gather allies in the Horde to return to a truce. She participated in the war and made her city a target.

The destruction of Theramore was a direct consequence of betraying all of her mistakes and betrayals, in the end.


On the other hand, all the decissions that kept biting Genn in the ass where kinda out of his control. It was the craziest shit possible happening one after another. And in the end, the Forsaken attacking Gilneas was without the slightest provocation.

[Zulkhan]

Even though I really don't like the direction where Blizzard seems to lead Saurfang, I'm still going to cuddle my idea of these clashes and conflicts between different "sides" of the Horde reaching an unexpected compromise. Hey, maybe I'm wrong but I've got nothing to lose so who cares.

That being said, I understand some of the complaints and if this is really going to be a shitty rehash of MoP, I'm afraid BfA is really going to fall even beneath WoD's level. Still, I'll not abandon my conviction that easily and I'll stick to it until BfA itself will not prove me wrong.

At least you get a good story on the way. And probably do the more epic things over the course of the war.

I would totally exchange Cuckduin Wrynn for that.

I don't trust a single letter of what you wrote. I just know Alliance players will stop being jealous of all this amazing inner conflict the moment they'll finally see heads rolling on their side.

u definitely don't have played cata, the horde won all the war because of Garrosh strategy

It's you who clearly played jackshit. Garrosh achieved pretty much no substantial successes in Cataclysm: the Ashenvale offensive failed, the Stonetalon operation went to shit, the Vash'jir expedition too and Gilneas became no one's land. Only Sylvanas was able to achieve a few successes, albeit relatively small in scale.

Not if he plans on going straight to Draenor and get reinforcements. He must always think of the possibility that the Forsaken won't just quietly sit by when their Banshee Queen gets killed in a Mak'gora.

And why should anyone care? Forsaken are basically refugees with no capital atm. There's nothing they could do about it without getting crushed.

Leaving aside that she will die twice while he only needs to die once to lose. And doing the Zandalar business is supporting Sylvanas, which he said he will not do anymore. So no, he can't go with the PC if he does not want to support Sylvanas anymore.

Sorry but this shit makes no sense. Getting new allies is beneficial regardless of who's the current Warchief and none of these are good excuses enough to stay behind with the enemy rather than getting out of the Stockades with actual allies.

I'll say this again, Saurfang completely ignored Garrosh. Now he decides that honor is more important than surviving a siege?

It's really hard to take Saurfang seriously as long he remains the only one voicing any kind of concern. Forget MoP, fucking Cataclysm already created a tense atmosphere around Garrosh's reign, with assassinated leaders (Cairne) death threats (Vol'jin) and disobedient subjects (Sylvanas). Here we literally have nothing but Saurfang getting pissed with basically no one giving a fuck.

Interesting how Vol'jin rebelling against Garrosh was cheered on by Horde fans but Saurfang rebelling against Sylvanas somehow makes him an Alliance sympathizer, prideful asshole, soft traitor, etc.

Indeed, it's all thanks to those hot undead titties not the fact that, so far, the story looks like a comically retarded version of Garrosh's own story arc, one lacking all the build up Garrosh had while also managing to shred Saurfang's characterization to pieces. What a great premise indeed.

An character that is all about honor leaves the faction who is currently forsaking(heh) honor.

Seems right to me.

Pretty sure Garrosh was shitting on honor just fine (at least over Saurfang's conception of honor) but that didn't lead Saurfang away from the Horde.

And yes, Vol'jin formed a rebellion to fight Garrosh by the time Saurfang joined the party: a rebellion created by a motivated leader rallying motivated people. The fact that now Saurfang feels that it's better to stay all sullen in a cage over rejoining his faction can only mean that there's nothing of the sort occurring within the Horde at the moment. Which, guess what, may also mean that his reasons to be pissed about Sylvanas may not be that good: they may be justified for him but if these reasons are tied to little more than Saurfang's personal feelings and issues, these will clearly struggle to collect the following Vol'jin managed to collect back in the day.

[Harbour]

Which applies oh, so much to Broxigar copy that wants to die in honorable combat at all costs.

Character development bruh, character development.

[Deleted]

....

Sorry but this shit makes no sense. Getting new allies is beneficial regardless of who's the current Warchief and none of these are good excuses enough to stay behind with the enemy rather than getting out of the Stockades with actual allies.


...

But he is getting out. What good would it do if he went with the PC to Zandalar (which was what the person I was quoting suggested) instead of just escaping while the guards are busy looking for the intruders? He gives the PC and consorts a moment to get out of the stockades while he tells the guards 'Hey, take me to your leader!' and blocks their vision into the hallway behind him and afterwards he escapes because the whole city is in turmoil because everyone's looking for the rest of the prisoners and he can just be on his way. He isn't talking to Anduin, because Anduin is riding through the city right after the PC escapes.
How do we all think those Draenor orcs join the Horde later? Because someone writes them a letter? Surely not. I'm sure Saurfang gets them to join (which isn't confirmed, ofc, I'll give you that.) And I don't think the orc-population of another planet joining the Horde is something the Alliance is looking forward to, so I am quite sure Saurfang isn't out to do the Alliance a favor. And in Stormwind he is not as far away from the Dark Portal as he'd be if he took the route via Zandalar (again, which was suggested as the better route for him to take in that situation).

So again, I don't think he is turning traitor and I do think he is going to re-join the Horde with reinforcements and then challenge Sylvanas. And he then even has grounds to argue, because if he actually took what she said to heart, then he knows she is at least kind of right and they don't have enough people for the kinds of plans he comes up with. Even if he disagrees with her methods, he must know that part is true.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Thing is, Saurfang is not solving anything. So far he's acting like a big baby staying in a jail cell sulking while the people he has responsibility to are left leaderless. So much for his selective "honor".

Last we see, he is asking to speak to Anduin. IF he suspects both sides are being played, he might see this as a chance to reach through the madness. We all know that ultimately the Void is responsible for all of this. The azerite is corrupted. It's just a matter of when and how we find out. Saurfang is suspicious of anything coming out of Silithus. He may be one of the first to see through the whispers.

[Alidfe]

Fact Check: No

That's not how fact checking works but more power to you I guess.

[OIS]

I don't like how this looks so far. Sure, it makes sense that Sylvanas has some opposition too when everybody was up in arms against Garrosh, but actually abandoning the Horde when it was at war? That's too much. The guy is old, I get that. Can't orcs retire?

[madokbro]

Christie Golden tweeted about this, she wants us to experience the entire story before making decisions, and not cling on to datamined tidbits.

For me, this means Sylvanas redemption arc inc. It is possible that Golden couldn't handle the flaws on her dramatization, as there is exposition built upon them, and a well-written redemption story is the only way out.

My only issue with that is, after Illidan, I'm tired of this theme. Maybe Golden will handle Sylvanas better.

[Deleted]

I like where this is going with saurfang. He was one of the first major horde, and most of all Orc charcters that opposed the Tyrant that was Garrosh. Now he does the same.

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Christie Golden tweeted about this, she wants us to experience the entire story before making decisions, and not cling on to datamined tidbits.

For me, this means Sylvanas redemption arc inc. It is possible that Golden couldn't handle the flaws on her dramatization, as there is exposition built upon them, and a well-written redemption story is the only way out.

My only issue with that is, after Illidan, I'm tired of this theme. Maybe Golden will handle Sylvanas better.

I dont hope they force in a redemption arc for her. She seems pretty clear in her goal. We conqour Kalimdoor so the alliance can't touch us. She have always been about her own, and later the survivals of the forsakens. Not the greater good. she have always been lawfull Evil. And i dont want a "oh she belives that this war will make us all better people" No. I dont want a forced Redemtion ark, or a "she was MC by old gods" bad people are just bad people

[Verdugo]

Christie Golden tweeted about this, she wants us to experience the entire story before making decisions, and not cling on to datamined tidbits.

For me, this means Sylvanas redemption arc inc. It is possible that Golden couldn't handle the flaws on her dramatization, as there is exposition built upon them, and a well-written redemption story is the only way out.

My only issue with that is, after Illidan, I'm tired of this theme. Maybe Golden will handle Sylvanas better.

Or maybe Sylvanas is going to perform some petty, unnecessarily evil act, like biting off a head from an orphaned Night Elf baby. They tried the same thing in SoO with hillarious results.

[Deleted]

Can we please get an expansion where we lay siege to StormWind instead? This whole "not my Warchief" is getting so annoying. I would love for Greymane to go unhinged.

[Deleted]

It's really hard to take Saurfang seriously as long he remains the only one voicing any kind of concern. Forget MoP, fucking Cataclysm already created a tense atmosphere around Garrosh's reign, with assassinated leaders (Cairne) death threats (Vol'jin) and disobedient subjects (Sylvanas). Here we literally have nothing but Saurfang getting pissed with basically no one giving a fuck.

.

For now.
We have not yet red the full novel, but we alss know the Desolate Council is against Sylvanas which we knew from the experpt.

We also can imagine more tension within the Horde:
- Baine and the Taurens despise the war against the Nightelves and he made that pretty clear, he also seems to be a good friend of Saurfang.
- The orcs currently have no leader and Saurfang is an orc whose word means a lot, with him leaving the horde, some orcs might to start thinking.
- The darkspear might despise the fact that the Zandalarie are brought into the Horde also with Voljins return they might turn against Sylvanas
- The Zandalari themselves ruled by a God King will not boew down before a megalomaniac undead elf, the Zandalari hate undeads.

So there is not just a little conflict potential, the horde currently is a lit fuse ready to explode and Sylvanas lacks real allies, she is despised within the Horde and not trusted by any means.
Which is in my opinion the reason Saurfang doesn't challenge Sylvanas to a Maggora because he knows she will cheat and he will die. That duel is based on honor and the believe that both combatants are to honorful to cheat, Sylvanas on the other hand has no honor she does everything to survive because she is absolutely terrified of dying. Saurfang knows that.

Christie Golden tweeted about this, she wants us to experience the entire story before making decisions, and not cling on to datamined tidbits.

For me, this means Sylvanas redemption arc inc. It is possible that Golden couldn't handle the flaws on her dramatization, as there is exposition built upon them, and a well-written redemption story is the only way out.

My only issue with that is, after Illidan, I'm tired of this theme. Maybe Golden will handle Sylvanas better.

Yeah that quote from her ist totally stupid and arrogant.
She basically says that noone should criticise the story or writing before it has been fully layed out at the end of the expansion at which point however it is logically too late to do changes or make suggestions.
So basically she tries to forbid negative yet constructive feedback on her work that points out flaws or unpopular decisions or demand changes.

This is rediculous. That person is extremely arrogant and unsympathic and based on her tweets she is totally unable to handle critics. She even seem to block people who opose her opinion in a constructive way creating an echo chamber of people expressing only her view.

[Rotted]

Let me post this scenario to you,

Horde breaks in to rescue saurfang,
He tells you to fuck off,
Something happens and he escapes
During his escape he saves Anduin from death
Anduin grants him his freedom
Saurfang tell hims he has no desire to rejoin the horde, him and his brothers will leave to live a life of honor
Anduin invites him to the Alliance
He accepts
I come to the forums and laugh in the Hordes face that we get orcs Bonus points if we get upright as well

[Deleted]

Anduin grants him his freedom

I am pretty sure that all it would take for Anduin to let Saurfang go is his word of honor to stay out of the conflict. Anduin is not the guy who seeks retaliation.
Saurfang being in the stockades is reasoned by the fact that he till now refused to cooperate.

In my opinion Saurfangs: "I will speak to the boy king" is his decision of giving that word of honor and after that I am pretty sure Anduin has no reason to distrust him.

[Deleted]

For now.
We have not yet red the full novel, but we alss know the Desolate Council is against Sylvanas which we knew from the experpt.

We also can imagine more tension within the Horde:
- Baine and the Taurens despise the war against the Nightelves and he made that pretty clear, he also seems to be a good friend of Saurfang.
- The orcs currently have no leader and Saurfang is an orc whose word means a lot, with him leaving the horde, some orcs might to start thinking.
- The darkspear might despise the fact that the Zandalarie are brought into the Horde also with Voljins return they might turn against Sylvanas
- The Zandalari themselves ruled by a God King will not boew down before a megalomaniac undead elf, the Zandalari hate undeads.

So there is not just a little conflict potential, the horde currently is a lit fuse ready to explode and Sylvanas lacks real allies, she is despised within the Horde and not trusted by any means.
Which is in my opinion the reason Saurfang doesn't challenge Sylvanas to a Maggora because he knows she will cheat and he will die. That duel is based on honor and the believe that both combatants are to honorful to cheat, Sylvanas on the other hand has no honor she does everything to survive because she is absolutely terrified of dying. Saurfang knows that.

You made lots of assumptions and created a scenario that is most likely on no ones mind. Saurfang goes not want to be warchief period. He is the guy everyone wants for it but he sees himself as old and not what the Horde needs. Regardless of Slyvanas decisions she has actually strengthened the Horde and she even lost her home in the process of doing so. You fail to see this but this is all just inner conflict with Saurfang. Saurfang claims he is, "not that kind of Orc" anymore and right now he values his morals and beliefs than the Horde.

It's quite obvious to get the Maghar Orcs we will need Saurfang at some point. Saurfang regardless will go back to his people and let the Maghar join the horde at a later patch. Saurfang is not going to betray the horde or even challenge the warchief. He just needs time to reflect.

Edit: To the uninformed Alliance players the developers already said that the Maghar Orcs are horde and Horde only. They won't let orcs be on the side of the Alliance.