"Cynically negative" community cause of communication breakdown

[Lei]

When people warned blizz about the pruning and the legendaries I think blizz knew what's gonna happen, but they were like money > gameplay. Many people did not enjoy the farming but they did it anyways for various "social pressure" (look it up) reasons, I think this is a serious problem when someone creates a game that they KNOW for a fact will get people in miserable position, but they just do it anyways, because that brings the fat dollars. I stopped raiding and basically playing, but many people stayed and farmed obsolete emissaries and farmed mythic dungeons after mythic dungeons. Then the "flop" with the 4 max legendary drop limit. Ouch. That really says something about the devs. Of course it's easier to play the "wait, oops, we didn't know, but we've learnt from it, pinkyswear " card. A lot of non-dev people pointed it out for them, like seriously a lot of ppl, it was basically a no brainer.
I'm no surprised that the communication from the players is what it is... There are a lot of little... "things" like the mentioned above happening in the game. Maybe some people don't realize it... Or not in the grand scale. Or don't care, which is also fine.

[Gigabear]

btw if you actuallty read the thread it is about someone who applied for the role of "MVP poster" but didnt get it, and legit makes the thread about how bad it is.

No, other posters made the thread about that. What I made the thread about was clearly articulated in the OP.
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A more general response to this issue. I am "cynically negative" precisely because they didn't engage/listen. Anyone who can look at Legion Beta to live and think feedback was carefully considered is fooling themselves.

[willtron]

The community is a bunch of immature, vitriolic idiots. They have nothing constructive to say. If they want communication they should get themselves civilised. As it stands they don’t deserve anything at all, except maybe the back of hand.

Go read the first page of threads in general wow forums and tell me that any self respecting adult would engage with that load of drivel.

It's enough to drive anyone mad. Now imagine thats your job. To read through and respond to these fucking morons.

[Verdugo]

You get respect when you give respect.

So if Blizzard doesnt respect its playerbase they dont deserve any respect from us?

Glad you made that clear.

[kary]

So if Blizzard doesnt respect its playerbase they dont deserve any respect from us?

Glad you made that clear.

You're the lot acting like petulant children.
But yeah, go ahead with asking for something while disrespecting the person you're talking to, see how that works for you.

[Verdugo]

You're the lot acting like petulant children.
But yeah, go ahead with asking for something while disrespecting the person you're talking to, see how that works for you.

I dont remember much disrespecting during legion alpha, in fact only disrespect I have seen was from Blizzard.

[Gigabear]

You're the lot acting like petulant children.
But yeah, go ahead with asking for something while disrespecting the person you're talking to, see how that works for you.

I consider ignoring a person/group you're supposed to be paying attention to, as in literally having a job description that mandates it, as being one of the more disrespectful things you can do to someone. You can't just ignore everything that came before and call out the result of a year's long cycle of escalating cynicism.

[kary]

I dont remember much disrespecting during legion alpha, in fact only disrespect I have seen was from Blizzard.

LOL, ARE YOU MAD?
You have to be high. Beta forums were nothing but people pissing themselves as blizzard were going through their initial ideas. And guess what, after they experimented, a lot of feedback was implemented (see hunters and dire beast for example).

People start throwing hissy fits the second their "suggestion" doesn't get instantly implemented.

- - - Updated - - -

I consider ignoring a person/group you're supposed to be paying attention to, as in literally having a job description that mandates it, as being one of the more disrespectful things you can do to someone. You can't just ignore everything that came before and call out the result of a year's long cycle of escalating cynicism.

Recording feedback =! ignoring feedback.

People have this mindset that if blizzard doesn't instantly implement their shitty ideas that feedback is ignored.

[Verdugo]

LOL, ARE YOU MAD?
You have to be high. Beta forums were nothing but people pissing themselves as blizzard were going through their initial ideas. And guess what, after they experimented, a lot of feedback was implemented (see hunters and dire beast for example).

People start throwing hissy fits the second their "suggestion" doesn't get instantly implemented.

I was talking about alpha, not beta. Beta was after Blizzard ignored everything or blatantly responded with "we know better".

Also piss off with that "LOL U MAD", you are no better than the people you are accusing of toxicity.

[Gigabear]

Recording feedback =! ignoring feedback.

People have this mindset that if blizzard doesn't instantly implement their shitty ideas that feedback is ignored.

That's not what I'm saying at all. We aren't talking about feedback which was considered and disagreed with. We're talking about a very high percentage of simply disregarding it. The answer isn't almost always no if you are taking suggestions seriously.

[Jastall]

I'm not one to be overly positive about the state of the game, but when was the last time an entire class wasn't good enough for RAIDS as a whole? Surely we're not ONLY counting cutting edge content (mythic) but also at least heroic?

And even if we're only talking about mythic, I can't remember the last time all three specs of a class were unviable.

I can't think of one either. Maybe Death Knights early in Legion weren't the best, but they weren't absolutely unviable by any means and got good from Nighthold onwards.

Really using my memory back to Mists when I first raided seriously, all 3 specs of a class being unviable and unused has never been a thing or even close to a thing. Some specs fall in or out of favor all the time, and while yes for a few extremely specific instances (mostly Mythic Avatar and KJ) class stacking was all but required, outside of that every class has a place, and in Heroic/old Normal every spec could always perform well enough.

[Rukario]

I do feel like sometimes the game takes a few steps back...but overall it has improved indeed, in a good number of aspects.

[kary]

I was talking about alpha, not beta. Beta was after Blizzard ignored everything or blatantly responded with "we know better".

Also piss off with that "LOL U MAD", you are no better than the people you are accusing of toxicity.

I meant it as "lol, are you insane" not "haha u are angry"

Because you clearly have some sort of mental disconnect if you really think that all feedback was ignored. The hyperbole doesn't help. They listen, just like how you listen to the points you like and ideas you agree with, so do they. Tons of classes are completely different from their alpha/beta iterations. Dungeons, zones, pvp talents too.

Everyone is toxic, blizzard too. But if you have to deal with kids that rant every time they don't instantly implement whatever harebrained suggestion they come up with, you'd become a jackass too. Have you seen the stupid as fuck suggestions in these forums that show up every single day? Now imagine those dumbfuck suggestions but with even more entitlement attached.

[Verdugo]

Everyone is toxic, blizzard too. But if you have to deal with kids that rant every time they don't instantly implement whatever harebrained suggestion they come up with, you'd become a jackass too. Have you seen the stupid as fuck suggestions in these forums that show up every single day? Now imagine those dumbfuck suggestions but with even more entitlement attached.

Blizzard CMs are not paid to be jackasses, they are paid to be community managers, their job is to manage community, not ignore it because someone said something rude.

[kary]

Blizzard CMs are not paid to be jackasses, they are paid to be community managers, their job is to manage community, not ignore it because someone said something rude.

Humans are humans.
Blizzard is aware that forum posters are cunts. It's also their job to ignore/mute people that are being cunts. That's them doing their jobs.

[teddabear]

I meant it as "lol, are you insane" not "haha u are angry"

Because you clearly have some sort of mental disconnect if you really think that all feedback was ignored. The hyperbole doesn't help. They listen, just like how you listen to the points you like and ideas you agree with, so do they. Tons of classes are completely different from their alpha/beta iterations. Dungeons, zones, pvp talents too.

Everyone is toxic, blizzard too. But if you have to deal with kids that rant every time they don't instantly implement whatever harebrained suggestion they come up with, you'd become a jackass too. Have you seen the stupid as fuck suggestions in these forums that show up every single day? Now imagine those dumbfuck suggestions but with even more entitlement attached.

I can vouch that all feedback for Feral was ignored in Alpha and Beta and this was from Ferals in world class guilds. Unsurprisingly they no longer play Feral.

[Gigabear]

I can vouch that all feedback for Feral was ignored in Alpha and Beta and this was from Ferals in world class guilds. Unsurprisingly they no longer play Feral.

This is much like Beastmasery which was acknowledge to have an overly simplistic rotation a few days before launch, but nothing was ever actually done about it. I don't think the spec is in a terrible spot, but it's pretty obvious they went with what they wanted, not what was hoped for.

[Goldielocks]

WoW is not the most popular mmo out there at the moment.

It is not even one of the most profitable. A simple google search can tell you that.

The days of WoW being a top dog in the genre are pretty much over.

Did a google search. Most sites put wow as most played of 2017. One put it at second behind ESO.

Not sure if that claim is entirely accurate.

[Gigabear]

Did a google search. Some sites put wow as most played of 2017. One put it at second behind ESO.

Not sure if that claim is entirely accurate.

It's difficult to say since none of the big 3 release their metrics publicly. But WoW is in danger of being dethroned at some point, that I can say with some confidence.

[InfiniteCharger]

In a recent Blizzard post, Ornyx insists that it is the "cynically negative" community at fault for the communication breakdown between Blizzard and the community:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...age=6#post-116
He fails to see "any reason why it would be in our best interest to actively engage with" this part of the community.

My response is simply this: if a community manager does not wish to manage and participate with the community then they should immediately resign and find someone who is willing to try. If that is how they really feel, we will continue stuck in this limbo state indefinitely as long as they're around.

It is not helpful in the slightest when one side has clearly given up attempting to manage the community as a community manager. There is nothing more frustrating than employees who stick around when they have clearly given up and burnt out. Be the change they want us to be.

LOL it is called forum moderation and community development.

Blizzard never had a good track record at forum moderation IMO.

That is why threads auto lock at a certain post limit and generally no blues to be found.

I guess it is a catch 22. You want to allow people to speak but at the same time you don't want it to be obnoxious.
But generally good forum moderation would fix most of the issues they have on their site.
Like folks can post the same topic over and over again multiple times and nobody locks them.
Toxic behavior is not moderated and GD is the worst.
Then you have the sub forums which hardly get any blue attention despite being more specific to a topic.

So ultimately this is the result. A tool for feedback and communication loses its value for all involved.
And mostly since Blizz owns those forums it is really on them for not handling them better.
I mean trolling and other types of negative social behaviors online aren't new things.

My personal opinion is that the blues got reined in a while back because the power that be didn't want them getting folks hopes up.S
Meaning they took a more "cannot confirm or deny" approach to most feedback.