Self-driving Uber kills Arizona woman in first fatal crash involving pedestrian

[EliWallach]

One of the problems is that the public is being sold on the merits of the tech without being provided with a good understanding of the risks involved. So the expectations are too high. If the developers want to test these vehicles out in the real world, the public needs to understand that not only does shit happen, but in this case, shit will happen and lots of it. But the future boon to society is way beyond what most people realize. That boon could start in a few years or in 100 years and it's up to us to decide what we want. Of course it becomes harder when it's your kid who dies.

[Vanyali]

As long as you've got city / suburban sprawl, you'll always need a shit ton of roads.

Its just my belief that because computers are purely logic based, they'll never ever fully be able to control for human stupidity. As such, humans should be able to take control when needed. Kind of like airline pilots.

Also, at least in Granbury, darting is needed sometimes when the cars refuse to stop... Would an AI car be able to detect a person at a 4 way stop that suddenly crosses even though the car senses it is its turn to move?

You'll need roads, but you won't need as many, and they won't need to be as big. For instance, the main freeway by me is ALWAYS congested at one specific.. oh, mile, mile and a half spot. The reason? Because people ride the ending lane as far as they can then dart over as quick as they can without concern for the cars going faster than they are in the next two lanes. Which slows them down, which makes more people ride to the end. Self driving cars? Don't pull that crap. So instead ot hte proposed 2 to 4 lane it can stay 2 and be faster.

Driving without any human input would be the ideal, as you wouldn't have morons trying to "cheat the system" and end up slowing everything (including themselves!) down to try to save 2min on their drive.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Wow, even automated, Uber can screw up.

Of course, it is good attempts of development, and hopefully taken off the list until adjustments. I do hope that the family left behind is compensated.

You really can't compensate someone they loved being killed. I personally hope it's put on hold indefinitely. Until it's clearly understood what went wrong why, and how to prevent it.

[The Stormbringer]

You'll need roads, but you won't need as many, and they won't need to be as big. For instance, the main freeway by me is ALWAYS congested at one specific.. oh, mile, mile and a half spot. The reason? Because people ride the ending lane as far as they can then dart over as quick as they can without concern for the cars going faster than they are in the next two lanes. Which slows them down, which makes more people ride to the end. Self driving cars? Don't pull that crap. So instead ot hte proposed 2 to 4 lane it can stay 2 and be faster.

Driving without any human input would be the ideal, as you wouldn't have morons trying to "cheat the system" and end up slowing everything (including themselves!) down to try to save 2min on their drive.

It's always great when someone pulls some seriously asshole-ish move to get ahead of you and speed on ahead, only for you to pull up to the next light right behind them and them having gained perhaps one or two seconds of time. Karma.

[Xar226]

Looks like the self driving car fantasy is crashing into reality.

Yes, a single fatality across dozens of companies with hundreds of thousands of hours on the road is definitely the beginning of the end. It's not like this 5-ish-year-old technology isn't already a dozen times safer than human drivers or anything.

Let me guess: Car enthusiast enraged at the possibility of a future without drivers?

[Doctor Amadeus]

of course and props to uber for that, to immediately cease this and figure out what went wrong, rather than "well its better than human drivers still so we will carry right along". i think with that mentality this can be refined and get better (honestly thats the only approach they should take with this, anything short of that should be unacceptable).

I agree, and anybody working with Uber who did say something like this ought to be fired. But there needs to be a very very slow process because just flipping the switch back on and the government needs to step in to assure that.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

This never happens with a human behind the wheel. /s

[Deleted]

Why?

Self driving cars are going to hit people and kill them.

They are not a panacea to traffic accidents.

The question is, will they do less harm than human drivers? I for one believe they will. They do not get tired, they do not get distracted. Can they make mistakes and kill people still? Yes, but I'll bet they'll do less than humans do.

lets ignore the moral autonamous cars killing people whos to blame part.

There are still obstacles that are so significant when it comes to self driving cars that they should not be currently rolled out on real roads. They have yet to master basic design requirements. The sensors don’t appear to be able to operate at the required performance levels.

Some of the problems :
'Vehicles need to be able to see, interpret, and predict the behavior of human drivers, human cyclists, and human pedestrians—perhaps even communicate with them. The cars must understand when they’re in another vehicle’s blind spot and drive extra carefully. They have to know (and see, and hear) when a zooming ambulance needs more room.'

Self driving cars are only good for shuttle type runs with dedicated roads in thier current iteration. And then they will still be as vunerable as phone boxes to vandalism if that happens.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

I think some folks are looking for flaws in the practicality of a self driving car but forget about everyone else they'll have to share the road with. Human error goes both ways and just because it's self driving doesn't mean it can break the laws of physics if she popped out of nowhere before the SUV could stop.

[Shadowferal]

It's funny in a way...(not this story)

Congested traffic will be as it always is. But the shit that a lot of people do...actually helps to keep traffic moving. Not that I endorse being an a-hole, but I always say there are two speeds on the highway; the posted speed limit, and traffic speed, which at times exceeds that limit. And the police won't do much as long as there's no accidents, and it keeps the traffic flowing.

With this self-driving shit...I see congested traffic and getting a lot more congested.

- - - Updated - - -

I think some folks are looking for flaws in the practicality of a self driving car but forget about everyone else they'll have to share the road with. Human error goes both ways and just because it's self driving doesn't mean it can break the laws of physics if she popped out of nowhere before the SUV could stop.

Liability
Who's to blame?
Reality check; a human being is the victim here.

[Crissi]

You'll need roads, but you won't need as many, and they won't need to be as big. For instance, the main freeway by me is ALWAYS congested at one specific.. oh, mile, mile and a half spot. The reason? Because people ride the ending lane as far as they can then dart over as quick as they can without concern for the cars going faster than they are in the next two lanes. Which slows them down, which makes more people ride to the end. Self driving cars? Don't pull that crap. So instead ot hte proposed 2 to 4 lane it can stay 2 and be faster.

Driving without any human input would be the ideal, as you wouldn't have morons trying to "cheat the system" and end up slowing everything (including themselves!) down to try to save 2min on their drive.

around here, the slowdowns are from fundamental road design mostly, and not driver stupidity. Like putting a light right off the ramp from I20, which ends up backing up the entire ramp and onto the freeway during rush hour. Also turn lanes that arent quite wide enough to avoid hitting a car that's stopped at the white line of the cross road. I dont see self driving cars fixing either of those issues.

I think you'd need a complete rebuild of roads and city planning to get pure autonomy to fully work.

[Minikin]

As long as you've got city / suburban sprawl, you'll always need a shit ton of roads.

Its just my belief that because computers are purely logic based, they'll never ever fully be able to control for human stupidity. As such, humans should be able to take control when needed. Kind of like airline pilots.

Also, at least in Granbury, darting is needed sometimes when the cars refuse to stop... Would an AI car be able to detect a person at a 4 way stop that suddenly crosses even though the car senses it is its turn to move?

they have been coming out with some really cool stuff and some crazy stuff for the future regarding those issues.

for example: A while back a university project was looking into intersection traffic. they realized that most gas is burnt at intersections and most traffic issues happen there for multiple reasons. 1. someone is on their cellphone while the light has already turned green. 2. some accelerate faster, some normally, some way too slow. 3. some people run reds. 4. some hurry during the yellow light.

So what they looked to build was a smart AI alogrithm that would take over ONLY during a certain deadband distance around the intersection. It would start the cars and get them rolling once the light goes green, at an even law applied speed, and once things are moving the driver takes control. override option is always there plus the added safety of AI enhanced emergency braking in case of say someone overriding and running a light etc. This would take care of the greenhouse gas issues with efficient acceleration use, plus move every car together in a grid like fashion using the best time and distance. Still in the works but pretty cool.

The crazy is volvos sensus intellisafe. Volvo is so confident in it that they have labelled it as "no one will be seriously injured or killed by a Volvo car come 2020". So I am assuming theyll make this standard in their cars. What it does is pretty crazy. Beyond just the general level 1 autonomy of self lanes and braking, it can detect pedestrians and keep brakes close to application and even detect pedestrians and bicyclists around corners (yeap building corners) and readies itself for emergency application just in case.

Programming them to stop when an object is in front or appears infront is not very hard. Honda Civics and Nissan Rogues now come with that tech and these cars retail for $24000. Issue is that there will be occurances where no amount of braking helps. Physics cant be beaten. Some of these cheap cars come with the tech to stop it, but the tyre and brakes being low quality can only stop the car so fast. Not to mention the speed (which is where these predictive applications like intellisafe shine as they dont apply brakes based on occurance, but ready the brakes ahead of occurance and full application upon occurance).

Generally level 1 features are good for relative distance tracking, like on a highway if a car slows down it will slow down with it and if it applied brakes it will do so too. But they have their limitations in case of pedestrians because lets face it, people are idiots and just come onto the road. Higher level cars are equipped with more to deal with those, but its still not perfect.y

[Nurasu]

Oh, I agree, they are the future... I just think some stuff like this can be fine tuned... AI should be fast enough:

That doesn't address the actual physical limitations of a car and how quickly you can stop something with that much momentum. I would question if it was actually related to the on-board system's response time.

[Vanyali]

around here, the slowdowns are from fundamental road design mostly, and not driver stupidity. Like putting a light right off the ramp from I20, which ends up backing up the entire ramp and onto the freeway during rush hour. Also turn lanes that arent quite wide enough to avoid hitting a car that's stopped at the white line of the cross road. I dont see self driving cars fixing either of those issues.

I think you'd need a complete rebuild of roads and city planning to get pure autonomy to fully work.

Ehhh. We had the same design (exits right onto a light) where I was working in LA and it didn't back the freeway up at all. But it's hard to tell sometimes, even if they look similar. And the turn lanes would easily be accommodated with more controlled turning / very minor paint corrections.

[Afrospinach]

In all seriousness though. What was this "operator" doing... sleeping?

I think having an operator is a false sense of security. Would love to see the reaction times of someone who is expecting their car to drive itself. It is also incidentally why I am personally pretty hard core against half way assists like lane keeping and so on.

[Accendor]

How long has this been running, with how many vehicles, and there's only one death? Jeepers, it's almost like it's still hundreds of times better than human drivers! Nah, better panic and freak out and shut it down ASAP. /s

That is litereally what I think every time I read something like this.

[Minikin]

I agree, and anybody working with Uber who did say something like this ought to be fired. But there needs to be a very very slow process because just flipping the switch back on and the government needs to step in to assure that.

i would guess no one at Uber would say something like that given how much flak they have been catching.

Its a fine line to tread, when working with innovative projects, because we know that at the end of this research lies far safer roads than currently for us all. Its just gonna take a long while (which is good, because if this is done properly it will be awesome and it will keep getting better).

Personally (iam a car guy and working on my mechanical engineering degree in an automotive focused university so heavily involved in this thing) i would rather they stop making grandiose claims and just work through it bit by bit. Google doesnt boast about how perfect its system is. I can also empathise though, because this is a HUGE HUGE HUGE undertaking and any engineer willing to work on this has balls that are made out of cold rolled steel. Every day that goes by without an accident is a great relief. But now this has happened. It is the first. Hopefully it is dealt with properly by ALL sides. The engineering to figure out what was wrong and apply a fix properly. the accountants to calm their jets and go through the process rather than just look at their profits. And the government to make a knowledgeable decision rather than an emotional one.

[Crissi]

Ehhh. We had the same design (exits right onto a light) where I was working in LA and it didn't back the freeway up at all. But it's hard to tell sometimes, even if they look similar. And the turn lanes would easily be accommodated with more controlled turning / very minor paint corrections.

Maybe Texas just has shoddy planning >.> <.<

like, Benbrook just finished a design that made it from 2 lane roadway to 3 each way. The problem, is it has lights at odd places that makes traffic actually SLOWER, and then has the 3rd lane going west just suddenly end with no warning whatsoever (this is something an AI should detect if it has a functional GPS system).

Dont even get me started on I-35 thru Austin. or 2222 in Austin where even an AI risks t-boning cars because of shit road design.

[Frolk]

You really can't compensate someone they loved being killed. I personally hope it's put on hold indefinitely. Until it's clearly understood what went wrong why, and how to prevent it.

Can be prevented by not walking across the road when/where its not safe, thats a start.

Had it been an human driver, im 99.99% sure she would still been hit and outcome would be the same.

[Gryzvwald]

so many fucking idiots in this thread. god i hate you all.

infracted - minor flaming