Possible Antorus nerfs?

[Magnagarde]

How did they make it harder? They made it so that you don't need specific comp with a lot of immunities, and removed RNG from p3. Because even with a lot of immunities you could get 3 chains and just wipe. Now its always 2 chains, which is very doable.

I personally find it easier to have classes use immunities than do it the way it is now.



They also never bothered to fix the fog radius as it goes beyond the visuals.

[Deleted]

Almost every guild had a line-up that meant they got 2 chains all the time anyways (Other than the 1st set, which are irrelevant cause nothing happens for the first 40s of the phase after the scythes), and they a lot of the time got 1 chain, or even none. The change to the fight wasn't really a nerf, if anything a lot of the time it was a buff, but it was a hugely desired quality of life change due to the frustration of the immunity requirements and the feeling when RNG meant those immunities did little.

Prior to the change I had seen kills where the guild got 2 chains over the entire of the fight (Ignoring the 5th ones you just keep alive).

Well perhaps for raids with a very good setup and very many immunities. Most raids that will kill Argus mythic soon wont have that many immunities.

And dealing with chains isnt that difficult. At the start we release both with def cds, second is suicide and tree res, 3rd and 4th wave we have one trigger immediately and one will explode when it expires (so only 1 stack each time).

We wiped a lot at 3rd and 4th chains trying to use 2 chains at once. With 1 chains max it is healable. You just cant mess up rage/fear debuffs.

[SerialPandaSnuggler]

Argus devs can DIAF. Close to 600 wipes now.

That stopped being a dev problem and more a your raid problem a while ago.

[Emerald Archer]

How did they make it harder? They made it so that you don't need specific comp with a lot of immunities, and removed RNG from p3. Because even with a lot of immunities you could get 3 chains and just wipe. Now its always 2 chains, which is very doable.

It's harder for bad guilds who needed that hail mary attempt with 0-1 chain on all but first. You can see who those guilds are with these ones hitting 500+ wipes.

[Synthium]

In your explanation of what is causing your wipes, you literally just said "We aren't good enough". If you have people dying in certain phases to the same mechanics after 600 wipes then it's not meant to be. Those players are not getting better, they are a detriment to your group and progression. Argus SHOULD NOT be nerfed so a bad group can get a kill that they didn't earn. The group should get better. The only way a nerf to Argus should ever be warranted is due to a bug or overtune on Blizzard's part. Many guilds have killed him, so neither of those are the case in this situation. Your guild either needs to take a hard look at their group, and make the choice to remove the players dying to mechanics or just understand that the skill level of the group as a whole isn't enough to get the kill. Not trolling at all, I'm making a valid point. Some players just aren't good enough to kill every boss on mythic, and that's the way it should be.

Why do players want nerfs? If it were nerfed so that everyone could do it...where is the accomplishment in getting the kill? It's literally the same thing as handing every kid who shows up for a game of baseball a trophy, win or lose. It's an empty reward that you didn't earn, that you don't deserve, and that you should have.

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Or...just a thought:
Portal Keeper: Have your DPS do more dps and kill the imps faster. Also, interrupt their explosion. It's not hard.
Varimathras: Have DPS do more dps, and those making little mistakes causing wipes...tell them to stop doing the same crap every time or boot them and replace.
Aggramar: Have your healers heal more. Have your DPS kill adds faster.
Argus: Do more DPS. The fog is not bugged. If you keep wiping to a mechanic it's not bugged, players are just bad. You don't need double hero. If you can't kill boss with 1 hero you don't deserve to kill the boss.

Fixed that for you.

I like how your retarded condescending attitude is aimed at me. I killed Mythic Argus last week and I killed several of those bosses multiple times, and we rekill them every week without an issue. I'd like to see your progress, how you're playing, how elusive you are to death fog and things like that.

Please go bury yourself in a hole.

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Does portal keeper need a nerf lol? It's like one of the easiest bosses in there..

Well, not in my opinion. But it can be one of the more frustrating ones to farm due to imp management. Like, I personally don't care about the nerfs at this point, I'm just trying to point out what I've seen PERSONALLY people fail at the most and maybe nerf it slightly for less good guilds, that's all.

[KaPe]

Well OP, here is the spectrum of replies you will get. Glad that you are no dev?

Does it really matter? I'm pretty sure they have their internal statistic and can filter bullshit claims, be it "we wiped 1000 times on that boss" or "what a joke, took us 50 tries and our tank disconnected on our final attempt." They have their planned goals and will implement them, even if it hurts someone's ego and let those filthy casuals kill M Argus. (and they totally will, sure everyone knows casuals are 9/11M)

It's rare for an instance to go without any nerfs for so long, but it's still within reason. But to wait until pre-patch would be unprecedented and probably not in a good way. People's willingness to face a difficult boss drops as new expansion approaches and I highly doubt they'd be willing to waste their time after a certain point. Not something devs would like, for sure - and even those farming the instance would appreciate more downtime due to easier bosses.

[KaPe]

Well, not in my opinion. But it can be one of the more frustrating ones to farm due to imp management. Like, I personally don't care about the nerfs at this point, I'm just trying to point out what I've seen PERSONALLY people fail at the most and maybe nerf it slightly for less good guilds, that's all.

It's kinda funny how other adds are pretty much meaningless - well, unless you take too long with final portals and dogs actually get their casts off.

But out of all pre-Aggramar bosses, Varimathras will probably be the first on the chopping block. It's Maiden 2.0 - fairly easy, but insanely punishing. Single mistake and it's all over, unless it happened <5%. Not to mention it's the only boss they "buffed" by fixing "creative use of game mechanics" and removing plague. It's kinda a running theme with this expansion, buffing bosses after they are already killed.

[Synthium]

It's kinda funny how other adds are pretty much meaningless - well, unless you take too long with final portals and dogs actually get their casts off.

But out of all pre-Aggramar bosses, Varimathras will probably be the first on the chopping block. It's Maiden 2.0 - fairly easy, but insanely punishing. Single mistake and it's all over, unless it happened <5%. Not to mention it's the only boss they "buffed" by fixing "creative use of game mechanics" and removing plague. It's kinda a running theme with this expansion, buffing bosses after they are already killed.

They nerfed his HP by 5% at the same time so you can have a little bit more lenience with mechanics. But it's pretty much the definition of a cancerous boss - very easy to the point of being a training dummy, there are 2 mechanics that simply involve moving a few yards. But one small pixel of a misstep from anyone and it's a wipe.

On the point of Hasabel, it's the same thing I think. While it isn't a HARD boss compared to the latter half, it has the same factor of 1 mechanic being just brutally punishing which could be solved by either reducing imp damage, or making them spawn a bit different so it's easier to AoE.

[mahesvara]

Best nerf for Argus is just reducing Chains damage a bit. You 4 heal prog atm because you don't really need to worry about enrage with gear so you take an extra healer to cd through chains. Nerf the damage slightly and you can turn that healer into another dps.

Aggramar, I like the suggestion of only 3 high energy adds.

Rest of the instance is fine.

[Deleted]

Sounds like people complaining about farm kill speed are burnt out and need to quit or need to work on their raid's performance.

[Emerald Archer]

Sounds like people complaining about farm kill speed are burnt out and need to quit or need to work on their raid's performance.

That seems random, if you're 11/11M, why would you not want it to go faster? "Work on raid performance" Wanting it to be easier doesn't mean you're struggling to reclear.

It's not complaining either, it's just being keen for it to be even easier.

I'm not at all burnt out, I really enjoy raiding! And we easily 1 night clear I just wouldn't mind seeing nerfs to make it even easier, just because it's come to that time of the raid where nerfs are fairly normal.

I don't really understand why people fight nerfs so hard, are you not 11/11M yet? And you want to kill argus beforehand so you can say you killed it after just the first nerf?

[Gaidax]

That seems random, if you're 11/11M, why would you not want it to go faster? "Work on raid performance" Wanting it to be easier doesn't mean you're struggling to reclear.

It goes faster anyway once you start re-killing shit. Our Argus rekill was just a couple of pulls - it all goes faster by the grace of the fact that you have a shitton of wipes already and mechanics are pretty much ingrained into you to the point where you do these full auto.

[Deleted]

It goes faster anyway once you start re-killing shit. Our Argus rekill was just a couple of pulls - it all goes faster by the grace of the fact that you have a shitton of wipes already and mechanics are pretty much ingrained into you to the point where you do these full auto.

Als long as you are using your progresssetup, well, yes.
But have fun on the first evening you have like 5 newbies at Argus and have to re-progress every phase.

[Deleted]

That seems random, if you're 11/11M, why would you not want it to go faster? "Work on raid performance" Wanting it to be easier doesn't mean you're struggling to reclear.

Most of the time when people long farm clears is due to wiping on farm bosses, that's where the "work on raid performance" comes into play. If you plow through the raid 1 shotting every farm boss then nerfs aren't really don't to cut much, at most maybe 10 minutes out of your week and even that's pushing it.

[Aggrophobic]

Well OP, here is the spectrum of replies you will get. Glad that you are no dev?

Thats why we have 4 different difficulties. Maybe mythic is not for everyone.
As others have pointed out though, being forced to bring a set amount of some specs and classes is probably not that fun for guilds that are unable to do so. We had to spend quite a bit of time in order to get a full set of rogues for ToS but no one really wanted to play them. Not a great expereince.

[lonely zergling]

We clear mythic every week just fine with 1 raid night, wouldnt mind them making aggramar / argus a bit easier. Who doesnt like faster reclears? They could just increase the amanthuls drop rate as it helps your raid with trinket procc uptimes and the added 3rd feelgood 20% stats help too.

[Deleted]

We clear mythic every week just fine with 1 raid night, wouldnt mind them making aggramar / argus a bit easier. Who doesnt like faster reclears? They could just increase the amanthuls drop rate as it helps your raid with trinket procc uptimes and the added 3rd feelgood 20% stats help too.

Would also take a 3rd Legendary. :3

I know, i know, they are "feared" about balancing, but to be honost...The Progress is really, really over sooo...Why not having fun in being almost like a god (what we, powerwise, are right now), or i'm wrong? :>

[Gaidax]

I’m sure we will get it or just some other shit last month, they usually nerf raids to shit or overbuff classes to compensate for changes.

[kamuimac]

Would also take a 3rd Legendary. :3

I know, i know, they are "feared" about balancing, but to be honost...The Progress is really, really over sooo...Why not having fun in being almost like a god (what we, powerwise, are right now), or i'm wrong? :>

especially that in half of years all toon will get "nerfed" to the ground by itlv nerf .

they shoudl just allow 2 extra legendaries each consecutive month wearable from april till prepatch which will be probably in july and let people just have fun

[Emerald Archer]

Most of the time when people long farm clears is due to wiping on farm bosses, that's where the "work on raid performance" comes into play. If you plow through the raid 1 shotting every farm boss then nerfs aren't really don't to cut much, at most maybe 10 minutes out of your week and even that's pushing it.

Nerfs WILL come, complaining about it or arguing reasons against it, doesn't make any sense. It's just a matter of when.

If it speeds up your weeks by 10minutes, or by only 5, but happens to make the bosses more chill and require less focus, who cares.

Nerfs are going to come, they always do. Fighting the idea of it just seems stupid imo. It's something to look forward to, or not care about. Definitely not something to go "Oh damn, my reclears are going to be easier, that sucks."

But really, ignoring farm, Aggramar needs a change so it doesn't require a DK. That's the only legitimate nerf the raid currently needs for the shittier tier guilds coming through. It was fine for the first bunch, but it's slowly becoming less and less okay with the types of guilds reaching it.